Active Internet User Group for Ireland

Bard

Lads and lasses,

Just thought y'all would like to know - a new user group for Internet users in Ireland is in the throes of being started up at the moment. It's remit would be to work towards creating a better, fairer and hopefully cheaper Internet environment for all Irish users. This would naturally enough involve lobbying large organisations such as the famous Esat and Eircom, among others, with the aim of getting better services sooner. On the agenda are the likes of speeding up the move towards a FRIACO (UK) style flat rate system and introduction of broadband services.

Now this was attempted just over two years ago, - in fact I co-chaired the kick-off meeting to that particular attempt myself. Unfortunately, it met with little success as people couldn't seem to pull together to create a single concerted effort at forming such a unified organisation.

Recent problems though, highlighted by the Esat SNL fiasco, the Eircom breakup, the ODTR's announcements, etc. have brought back into light the need for such a lobby/pressure group - a voice for the Internet users of Ireland - a large proportion of whom are outraged at the level of service (or lack of service) from their ISP's or simply the way that their ISP's have been treating them lately.

We've all seen the tales of woe from those being kicked off the Esat SNL service because they were allegedly not acting "according to the spirit of the service". We've all seen Esat shoot themselves in the foot with the letters they've sent out recently and the, obviously, very bad PR they are getting at the moment... but what does it all mean to the end-user?- A decreased level of quality, - a large step backwards for Ireland in the level of Internet service available, and a generally unacceptable (and ocassionally legally challengable) attitude and treatment from the ISP companies themselves.

Something has to be done... and maxing out Esat SNL's service by organising a few hundred people to log on and stay logged on is hardly the answer! Rather than just sit back on their arses and wait for someone to do it, a few people have taken the initiative and are gathering names at the moment for the formation of a national user group - a single organisation body which will be able to speak on behalf of the Internet users of Ireland... a sort of trade-union, if you will.

If you are interested in further details on this, there are active discussions on it at the moment going on in the ie.comp newsgroup on Usenet. Howard Brittain (Howard9 on ie.comp) is the person to email if you are interested in getting involved - his email address is in the postings (I wouldn't put it here without permission, natch).

Just thought you guys would like to know. There are some very dedicated people getting involved and this could be a very worthwhile venture. The more names that get added to the list... the bigger the organisation becomes... the more pressure we can exert on certain companies... the better!

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

dahamsta

Although I can see why people might believe that a new user group is required, I'm not sure a new group is the best idea. The infrastructure is already set up with the IIU, why not use that? If you're not happy with the current membership, oust them!

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bard:
Howard Brittain (Howard9 on ie.comp) is the person to email if you are interested in getting involved - his email address is in the postings (I wouldn't put it here without permission, natch).
</font>

I got his permission. The address to email, if you're interested, is:

homer@THETROUSERSnetbox.com

(just remove THETROUSERS to email him... he did ask me to put a spamguard on )

Renton

Im up for it

RentZ

Kix

Guys,

I'd just like to remind you that I posted here a while back about attempts to get an ISOC chapter going to campaign on issues such as broadband.

The impetus for starting an ISOC chapter was coming from mainly the members of the IIU. They wanted to see an lobby group started but they didn't want it under the auspices of the IIU itself which has no formal leadership structure. Justin Mason certainly didn't feel he had the time or inclination to be a figurehead, as you can probably understand.

Hell, I even went and paid ISOC membership!

I'd urge you to consider focusing your efforts in this direction. But I don't really care how this happens as long as we all pull together.

K

[This message has been edited by Kix (edited 03-05-2001).]

dahamsta

Tell us more about ISOC Kix. Ok, tell /me/ more, I'm vaguely interested.

Bard

Well there's plenty of people who may or may not take up leadership roles in this new planned organisation - all has yet to be decided or seen... I'm just the messenger. - There'll probably be a large meeting organised for some time soon, - possibly next week. I would urge anyone interested in the setting up of such an organisation (or basically, anyone interested in seeing an improvement in Internet services in Ireland!) to come along to it.

Like I said, please register your interest by emailing Howard. He's building up a list of names at the moment. More information is on ie.general ... hopefully this time, something positive will come out of these efforts and a difference will be made.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Tharg

Who are the IIU? Part of the IIA?

Chris_533976

OY!!!

What about my website! Perhaps not as well known as IIU, but great nonetheless!

So go and visit. And I have a petition.

http://uie.8m.com

--Chris--

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<A HREF="http://uie.8m.com
" TARGET=_blank>http://uie.8m.com
</A>

THE[/URL] source for Internet news in Ireland. Polls, broadband, letter to ODTR, ISP details and A PETITION AGAINST EIRCOM.

Shinji

Heh, I was involved in the first attempt to get this started up a couple of years back... I think it's the same thing we're thinking of, the inaugural meeting was in a room under that pub near Break for the Border?

It's a good idea, and taken seriously could form a serious lobby group. A genuine, dedicated core of internet users could get quite an ear from the government, given how embarrassing they could become every time a minister spouts off about "e-commerce hubs" and what have you...

Joe22

Great ideabut i dont really think it will work, to many irish users dont use the internet enough to even know what a news group is, these are the people you need.

then theres ones like me, who dont like the thought of people having access to me IP, ive seen people being traced through news groups. many will not support you just because of this fact.

Nice idea and counth me in, but not in this format

Kix

Too many acronyms

IIU: Irish Internet Users Mail List
(I think that everyone should be on this)

http://iiu.taint.org

ISOC: Internet Society

http://www.isoc.org

Also look at:

http://www.isoc.org/isoc/mission/

And finally, the Irish ISOC Mail List

http://isoc.taint.org/mailman/listinfo/isoc

Joe22

yea im on IIU

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shinji:
Heh, I was involved in the first attempt to get this started up a couple of years back... I think it's the same thing we're thinking of, the inaugural meeting was in a room under that pub near Break for the Border?
</font>

Yep- the downstairs function room of the Drury Court Hotel on Stephens Street, on Sat. Feb 27th 1999.

In fact, - I co-chaired that meeting.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Shinji:

It's a good idea, and taken seriously could form a serious lobby group. A genuine, dedicated core of internet users could get quite an ear from the government, given how embarrassing they could become every time a minister spouts off about "e-commerce hubs" and what have you...

</font>

Yes, it is an excellent idea - (and it's not MY idea this time!)... really, rather than everyone saying "but what about this organisation?..." ... " or what about THIS organisation?"... they should simply send Howard an email and register their support and get involved in an all-encompassing organisation that doesn't threaten to swallow up the existing user groups, but just to provide a louder stronger voice for Internet users in Ireland.

The IIU is, to the best of my knowledge, just a mailing list, and not very active as a lobby group. The ISOC may just be a little too big and have too much of an international basis to meet our needs. I think the proposed organisation could be just what's needed - if it evolves into being the Irish chapter of the ISOC, all well and good, but action is needed now... As I've said already, I'd urge anyone to come along to the first meeting when it happens and help to contribute to (hopefully) creating a better Internet experience for all of us.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Bard

Update: The IIU have come on board to join forces with this venture.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Joe22

well if you have mason on board then im onboard, still dont like news groups,
something better more open and accessable is needed.
ill let you guys worry about that,

Bard

Does a public meeting sound open and accessible enough?

TBH, newsgroups are perfectly easy to access - you do know you can access them through the web, right? ... on www.boards.ie itself, in fact, there's a very good usenet interface.

So... for more info, see the postings on ie.comp here - you can post replies there also.

Something is likely to be announced within the next week of a venue and time for a kick-off meeting. There is a large and ever growing interest in the venture.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Joe22

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bard:

www.boards.ie itself, in fact, there's a very good usenet interface.

So... for more info, see the postings on ie.comp here - you can post replies there also.
</font>

a thats my point this usenet doesnt seem to user friendly if people can get you ip as ease, i have to say i know what i news group is but ive never used one because i allways felt insecure with them, am i wrong?

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe22:
a thats my point this usenet doesnt seem to user friendly if people can get you ip as ease, i have to say i know what i news group is but ive never used one because i allways felt insecure with them, am i wrong?
[/B]</font>

Um- yes... you're wrong, to be honest- there's very little insecure about them, except perhaps for those bloody robots that farm email addresses from them and then send them spam... just be sure not to use your real email address on Usenet and you're grand.

As for the IP thing, that goes with every email or logon to an IRC server, etc. - it's no less secure than them. You should be protecting your machine with some sort of port protector or firewall anyway- malicious users are all over the place, usenet has nothing specific to do with it.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bard:
Does a public meeting sound open and accessible enough?
</font>

IMHO, public meetings are good for forming a consensus and making decisions. Usenet, bb's and mailing lists are good for generating ideas and announcements.

I think the combination of the two should work very well. There may be a lack of people at the first meeting but at least it will be a start.

Shinji

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Yep- the downstairs function room of the Drury Court Hotel on Stephens Street, on Sat. Feb 27th 1999.

In fact, - I co-chaired that meeting.</font>

Aha... I think I can picture you now, actually. Freaky! I was one of the folk who was put forward onto a committee afterwards, it's unfortunate that nothing ever came of the whole thing but some of the personalities involved just didn't work together, and the support from the wider community wasn't what it might have been. Ah well... If at first you don't succeed!

Bard

Hup!

... well - it's back- a meeting has been announced, and the details, as can be found on ie.comp, are quoted below:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Time:

Sunday May 13th @ 2pm

Venue:

Drury Court Hotel, Lr. Stephans Street, Dublin 2 (behind
Grafton Street) Tel: 01-4751988 if you get lost.

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The room is booked from 2pm until 4pm. Cost £70.
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Please bring as many people as you can.... as well as...
a) few quid in change for contribution to room cost and a
few more for a pint. b) If you have suggestions and opinions
on the objectives and strategies of the group why not bring
written notes of them to leave with the committee as well as
contribute from the floor if you wish to. c) pen and
notebook.

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Agenda: This draft of a possible agenda attracted no comment
plus or minus in ie.comp earlier. I'm taking that as a
broadly good thing If there is anything serious left out
or included in error, please comment.

a) A 'meeting' chairman be invited.
VOTE

b) Brisk contributions from the floor on reasons for coming
and being involved, either actively or just attending for
support.

c) Volunteers for action committee. Five to ten people are
NEEDED so that no one has too much to do.
VOTE

d) Open discussion of the proposed 'Objectives' and basic
'Aims' of the Association.
VOTE

e) Open discussion on each objective agreed upon in d)
above. Brainstorming ideas for action - expect people to
come armed with ideas, including some in writing)
VOTE

f) Choice of name. Not too much controversy. Probably Irish
Internet Users Association or variation. Do we use the
resulting IIUA ? or a 'name' like 'Access' or whatever ?
VOTE

g) Quick discussion of objectives of Action Committee;
target date(s) for Public Meeting; Media; Petition(s);
Protest Letter(s), Charter/Constitution, etc. (this means
the C will not just be wandering off looking for things to
do but will have a clear mandate and list of tasks.
VOTE

h) AOB

i) Pub/Train/Home/Work

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Suggested 'Principle Goals' of the group:
(other goals can follow and support these, such as the ie.
domain issue)

i) Full and immediate Local Loop unbundling
ii) Flat rate internet access at a comparative cost to other
EU countries
iii) Full and immediate broadband roll out in Ireland

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5) Some suggested Courses of Action to be adopted....

"Bring public pressure on the ODTR to act quicker and make
full use of it's powers.

"Bring pressure on Esat to reverse it's 75hr rule, or at the
very minimum offer ALL customers the new 75hr service."

"Bring public pressure on the Gov to support the ODTR and
pressure Eircom itself, AND possibly beef up the ODTR's
powers."

"Publicise just how slow Ireland is progressing compared
with the US, and the UK and many other EU countries.""

Through:-

1 - lobbying government/ODTR
2 - lobbying the media

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."

bbt

this has to be asked,

what about people who can't make that meeting?

i would be interested in going, and giving my support, but I can't make it, as i'll not be in dublin.

will any formal committee/board be decided at this meeting?

rgrds,
bBt

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You got to mess with people.
--Utah Phillips

Bard

Yes, - apparently there will be an 'action committee' formed.

I'm not organising this btw-, I'm just relaying a message.

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Bard

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"We do know it was we who scorched the sky..."