NEWS ON LLU!

Lex_Diamonds

Here is sommit I saw on the ODTR Web Site. Just out today! There is hope gentlemen....

MEDIA RELEASE
For Immediate Release
April 30th 2001
Telecoms Regulator sets prices for Local Loop Unbundling.

Etain Doyle, Telecoms Regulator today (Monday 30th April 2001) cleared the way for implementation of local loop unbundling. In a Decision Notice today the regulator set prices for access and directed changes to eircom's Reference Access Offer. Monthly line rental is fixed at €13.53, or £10.66.

According to the Regulator " while there has been an LLU reference offer available from Eircom since the due date of 31 December 2000, this was incomplete and non compliant in several respects. In order to ensure that consumers are in a position to derive the benefits that Local Loop Unbundling can bring I have decided to intervene and set prices."

Local Loop unbundling has to potential to increase significantly the range of competitive services available to businesses and consumers. It requires the network owner to provide access to the copper pair connecting an individual telephone subscriber to the nearest point of interconnection with the main telephone network at the local exchange. This allows new entrants to offer a full range of broadband services directly to the customer.

The regulator continued "As eircom has failed to supply all the relevant information, I have set interim prices based on the information available to me. Despite repeated requests and the clear direction that the 30th April was the final date for the determination, there are still very substantial gaps in the material provided to me by eircom. Eircom's approach with respect to costing and the level of response and co-operation this issue is not acceptable."
These charges set are based on data from eircom, benchmarking and other reviews and analyses by the ODTR of efficient operator costs. They are within the range of pricing in other EU countries. The line rental at €13.53 is within the EU range from €8.23 to €19.51, and connection at €119.73 compared with €47 to €221.69.


The setting of these prices does not relieve eircom of its responsibility to address the deficiencies in its pricing proposals and to make a comprehensive re-submission to the ODTR on all matters.

Stephen

Woohoo!

I laugh at esat if they come crawling back to me looking for business. They can shove it up their a$$ for all I care. Now that it may be possible to get flat rate net access from different ISPs, yum yum.

Joe22

break open the ****ing beers yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

androphobic

could someone translate this into simpler terms for a simple mind pls?

Lex_Diamonds

Something else that is classic about this is the fact that the access rate is so low, which means Esat and others will be able to offer very attractive monthly rates.

Joe22

i find this ironic, esat today just alienated 60% of their costumer base with this letter then sent out on thursday, they probably found out about the llu on friday/saturday. haaaaaaaaa they have realy ****ed themselfs up, i wont be staying with esat any long, haaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaa haaaa, im an abuser, you guys with kiss my ass to get £20 off me from now on, *****s

Moriarty

Joe22, they have known for weeks that the ODTR would announce that price today (last day of April) - ODTR gave Eircom till today to set an agreeable price, or they would set it themselves, which they have just done.

Androphobic - this basically means that Esat etc will very soon be offering reasonably priced DSL, as thats one of the final hurdles to be jumped before they can get their ADSL service running. Basically, good times ahead :}

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Moriarty
mrmoriarty@eircom.net

Joe22

Moriarty it thats the case, then i just have to say esats very very stupid, doing what they have will coast them in the long run, unless they were just trying to kick us all off anyway so we will have to get dsl,

Lex_Diamonds

Well, there is one more hurdle. Correct ne if i'm wrong, but doesn't the infrastructure still have to be upgraded to allow usage of ADSL? That means it will still take ages for whoever to get to your area and dig up your road etc, etc. Another year at least

Joe22

Lex_Diamonds no mate, the nfrastructure been there for ages, just legal crap like llu holding it up, if llu works out i can see dsl pretty soon

Q_Ball

No afaik lex is right, even tho the llu has gone through, the exchanges themselves have to be upgraded to support DSL.

Still tho, we're THAT much closer

TAKE IT EIRCON YOU BUNCH OF h0es

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It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

HIT IT!

GreenHell

hmm hmmm this iss indeed very good news particularly in relation to the rolling out of dsl which was expected to be very dear sense eircom wwere over charging. Hopefully esat will speed out rollout to my area which I know has been selected for rollout because of the local technology park.

WWoohoo for me.

GreenHell

yea upgrading the exchanges shouldn't be a prob in urban areass mostly coz there done already I think.

I read today that to upgrade all irelands exchanges ... linking em all up with fibre will take 5 yrs..

e-business section in the irish examiner if anyone wanted to know.

Joe22

yea it will takes years and year to upgrade all the exchanges, but the simple fact is alot of dublins exchanges are allready upgraded, and have been for quiet sometime, still expect problems with bitsream

Dotsie~tmp

Its here! Its here! The Revolution is here.

<Dotsie runs off to find some solicitors to shoot in the head>

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Dotsie
ICQ: 44472574
www.dotsies.com
dotsie@dotsies.com

[This message has been edited by Dotsie~tmp (edited 30-04-2001).]

Mills

Hurrah! Maybe we'll be spared the horrors of call charges!

ButcherOfNog

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN ETAIN DOYLE YA GOOD THING YA !

Skeptic1

This is very good news if true, and not just ODTR speak. Of course it's still just a start.

Certain Dublin exchanges can expect ADSL very soon with the regional towns following in the years ahead. Rural areas will still be looking at wireless solutions for the forseable future, however.

sutty

wh00t

plyd Doyle!!!!

I hope we can get a full time flat rate in here

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Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Lex_Diamonds

But surely most of Dublin's exchanges aren't upgraded. Because if I remember correctly, NTL(the only people to date who have upgraded exchanges) had only upgraded the Tallaght and Templeouge areas! So who is going to pay for the building work?! Looks like the ball is back in Eircom's court, and they don't have a racket!

dahamsta

I don't like this bit:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
7 Final Steps
This Decision Notice provides the remaining elements to support the introduction of local loop unbundling in Ireland.

The Director will complete benchmarking work on Service Level Agreements and will issue a determination on SLAs, including compensation for failure to meet lead times if appropriate, by 18th May 2001

It is the Director’s intention to focus the LLU Forum on a small number of tasks that remain to be completed. These items remaining to be finalised, either by agreement or by determination of the Director, are:

· the Technical Manual – to be completed by 11th May
· the Spectrum Management Plan – to be completed by 18th May
· Process Manuals – to be completed by 4th May

Following completion of these items, the Director intends to bring the LLU working groups, in their current format, to a close and will establish an LLU Review Forum that meets every quarter, as required
</font>

The full Decision Notice is here by the way (word doc):

http://www.odtr.ie/docs/odtr0127.doc

flamegrill

lex i think that ntl have upgraded there cable network and thats nothin to do with telephone exchanges. eircom have upgraded quite a few exchanges in dublin and have been testing dsl for about a year i think.

also i think there is one sure way of known ir ur local exchange has been upgraded. if u can stay connected to the net longer than 16hours 59 mins and 59 secs. this is the normal exchanges max length of a connection. so if u can stay connected longer then theres a chance ur local exchange has been upgraded.

dont quote me on that, but i heard from a good ource about the old exchanges havin the time limit on them

hmmm

"That bit" is fine, just setting out a deadline for completion of the bits that are outstanding. Let's just hope now that Eircon don't put up a fight or we could see this last 10 months in the courts...

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lex_Diamonds:
But surely most of Dublin's exchanges aren't upgraded. Because if I remember correctly, NTL(the only people to date who have upgraded exchanges) had only upgraded the Tallaght and Templeouge areas! So who is going to pay for the building work?! Looks like the ball is back in Eircom's court, and they don't have a racket! </font>

NTL upgraded bits of their cable in these areas, not telephone exchanges. Only Eircom has telephone exchanges. This has nothing to do with NTL.

Lex_Diamonds

Phew! Thats a relief!

Oh please let this arrive soon! My prediction is flat rate dial-up by September and DSL early 2002. Obviously I want all that alot sooner.

Eircom, if you put up a fight on this then there will be beatings.

Lex "hardman" Diamonds

flamegrill

i believe eircom said they were goin to the courts on this one, have a look at the technology page on ireland.com

Skeptic1

At least six exchanges are upgraded for DSL in dublin. Eircom have been running DSL over these exchanges for the past couple of years but only to Eircom staff and friends of staff.

Why haven't they been offering this far superior technology to the public? Because, at £36 per month plus a high per-minute charge, ISDN brings in a much higher return for Eircom. ADSL normally costs about £40 per month in Europe. ISDN in costs about £3.60 per hour for daytime access at 128kbs.
So you get about an hour of 128kbs with ISDN for the price of 24*7 hours at 512kbs with ADSL.

This recent ODTR announcement is supposed to bring an end to this farce.

K!LL!@N

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lex_Diamonds:
Lex "hardman" Diamonds</font>

Lex you're about as hard as rubber nails.

But thanks for posting the info.

Lex_Diamonds

Rubber nails are actually quite hard. Depends what grade rubber of course...

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lex_Diamonds:
Rubber nails are actually quite hard. Depends what grade rubber of course... </font>

Exactly. Grade 1 rubber flows like slurry - - not very hard at all - whereas grade 5 rubber is about as hard as chalk or wood (teak). Grade 11 can make scratches on glass. This is very hard indeed.

I need to go to bed now.

yankinlk

Striaght from an article in the indy:

Unbundling has the potential to boost the range of services available to businesses and consumers. A spokesman for Esat gave a cautious welcome saying the pricing was a step in the right direction, but added that the real benefit to customers will depend on Eircom's ability and speed to make it happen.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ti=41&ca=35&si=425804&issue_id=4407

esat staff: knock knock

eircom exchange staff: hello

esat: <huge grin> hows it goin lads, we are here about the local loop unbundling.

eircom excahnge staff: Hmmmm...Now where did i put those keys?

esat: ...sigh....

Blitzkrieger

I can still see eircom ****ing this up but it's good to see that the ODTR are starting to get some results. One giant leap in the right direction anyway lads.

Kix

Humm...

I wonder how ready Esat really are. It does seem v. strange to have pi$$ed off their best potential DSL customers, the high usage SNL users, by KICKING THEM OFF their systems!

I see that they want to save money, £20 = 75hours, as far as I can tell (going by postings on IIU). They were treating it like a loss leader to get customers. If they were ready in a month or two to switch over to DSL, don't you think they'd have held off?

K

llatsni

I think we should all send an e-mail to support@iol.ie complaining about this situation, and for every hour they dont't reply, resend the exact same e-mail every hour on the hour! Whadda ya think?

Something like:

---

Dear IOL Support,

In light of your recent letter, about the discontinued NoLimits service, I feel very angry about the attitude in which you have treated me your customer. I feel that I have been misled into paying for a service which has not lived up to the standards in which it was initiated. I believe that I have been cheated and lied to about the limitations of this service. I expect that more will now be done to remedy this situation - other than asking me to pay you even more money for an apparantly worse package that is IOL Gold. It appears to me that this is merely you rubbing salt in the wound. If this situation is not resolved in a very satifactory manner, and if I am not replied to in due course, I will be forced to persue greater measures.

Yours sincerely
[insert name]

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Change it to suit!

[This message has been edited by llatsni (edited 01-05-2001).]

jd

mm- don't send it to support-thats tech support

it would be fairer to send it to the suits
marketing@iol
or sales@iol

Joe22

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ronan|Raven:
wOHOOO this great news so in other words dsl/adsl should now be able to to get to us in very little time?</font>

unless eircom fight it, eircom hasnt a leg to stand o nso expect a court case to be quick, about a month,
if they agree the first thing you will see is next months line rental is only £10

This was allso in the odtr report,
they set prices for not just access but line installation, to rnetal for exchange space,
in bitsream, so with all the prices settled, then expect a launch of adsl either june 1st or july 1st

Ronan|Raven

*Looks to the skies and notices a glorious light of progress aproaching!

The_Scary_Man

Well it seems they are trying to squeeze as much as they can out of us at the last minute. I got my phone bill today;
"Price Change
From April 2nd 2001, standard telephone line rental will increase by 8.7% from £13.11 to £14.25 (inc. VAT) per month.
This change is necessary in order to align our charges with the actual cost of provisioning and maintaining the networks that connect you to your local exchange. Currently this cost exceeds the rental charged to customers and in a deregulated market (lol) eircom is required to move to a more cost-based pricing structure."

If they don't get it from the other telcos then it seems that they are going to try to get it from us.
Typical.

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And then in a moment of absolute clarity he realised that there was nothing, not because everything had ceased to exist but rather that it had never been there to begin with.
Free Your Mind.

[This message has been edited by The_Scary_Man (edited 01-05-2001).]

elexes

hmmm b4 i start jumping for joy and start looking for a possable date for the release of dsl/adsl i get reminded that these guys dont wana spend any cash till they get bought out by the guys trying to buy them out ??? or will that now go on ??? i also rember to think back that these are a load of guys just trying to squeeze every penny from us and then kick us in the teeth befour and after we give them the cash ?

so whats eircoms side of this story ?
and anyone know if there gona b a 24*7 connection to the net sooner then the dsl/adsl one??

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what type of world will we live in when there is no world ?

Q_Ball

While this is good news I think that ye should read this. It states that eircon do plan to challenge the prices that the ODTR have set in the courts. It also states that the EU are aware of how far behind Ireland are compared to other EU countries.

Still, good news all the same.

<edit> This also makes interesting reading </edit>

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It's a 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

HIT IT!

[This message has been edited by Q_Ball (edited 01-05-2001).]

Kix

It kinda makes me laugh and cry at the same time to think that we're screaming about how Esat are the Spawn of Santa and how they're screwing their customers blind while at the same time we're praying for them to ride in on their big white horse and bring us broadband.

We are sad little techno-whores and we love it

Moriarty

Q_Ball, Eircom cant challenge the decision. The ODTR have the legal right to set the price for this, and Eircom have to abide by it. End of story

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Moriarty
mrmoriarty@eircom.net

Ronan|Raven

wOHOOO this great news so in other words dsl/adsl should now be able to to get to us in very little time?

Joe22

Moriarty we know that but i think someone should tell eircom because their going to court

Moriarty

can you show me an article somewhere that says their going to court?

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Moriarty
mrmoriarty@eircom.net

Joe22

check out the irish times, had an article about eircom saying they were plaining to challenge it in the courts, not a leg to stay on off course but the can try