new tyrn Dual T Bird Motherboard

Joe22

or so im told, when are we likely to see this in shops,
amd havent officaly released a t bird dual chipset,

Joe22

well tryn is developing a dual t bird motherboard, but you point are vaild, allso it seems the memory slots are aloped to one side, have to remeber that this would be a very very early prototype if it is real

sutty

I seen that pic months ago over on the hardocp forms, they all thought it was a fake. things to note about it are:

1) power connectors are in the middle of the board?!?!?!

2) Wheres the floppy connector?

3) PCI slots look to be too far back from the edge of the board (using the AGP slot as a ruller)

there's a lot more that ppl pointed out, but off the top of my head i cant remember them.

but if it is true.............wh00t

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Neil3030

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sutty:


Wheres the floppy connector?


[/B]</font>

Maybe you are to use a split ide cable.

Joe22

you cant mate, different number on pins

Gerry

That board was a apparently demoed at a major computer show recently, with 2 1.5 ghz tbird cpus's. As for the design of the board:

1) Power connector is in the middle of the board. Yes, at this stage of the design they are not thinking about ergonomics. They want to make sure that the board is stable, and so to eliminate unstable power, they put it where it is needed, close to the 2 cpu's, the chipset, and the agp slot. This means the power has less distance to travel around the board, before getting to these important components, and has picked up less interference, so it is cleaner.

2) If you look on the bottom edge of the board, in the middle, you can see what looks like a floppy connector. It seems to be shorter than the ide connector, and it doesn't have that many pins, so I think its a fair bet.

3) As far as I know, its a rackmount server board, which uses a 2U rackmount case, and ( I think ) a different form factor.

This could also explain why the dimm slots are at an angle

astrofool

k, it may be real it may be fake, BUT tyan is making a dual T-Bird mobo, and it should be out soon.

1. The floppy connector is on the bottom of the board.

2. Power supply is right beside north bridge, maybe in the prototype they need clean power, this may be changed, but lots of motherboards ship with the power in awkward places. Besides I think it fits in right for a server mobo.

3. Perspective, the PCI slots are closer to the edge than the AGP, the perspective of the shot makes it look otherwise.

4. The DIMM slots are at an angle so it'll fit into a 1U rack mount case, which is what this board will be aimed at: SERVERS, not for games, wait for ABIT or someone to do that.

5. Indicating it is a server board: SCSI ports at the bottom, dual ethernet ports, lots of capacitors.

you can't just mock up a board like that, it is in fact real.

Yossarian

Its a server grade motherboard. Judging by the tilted memory slots it would seem to be for a low profile server.

If its the Tyan board im thinking of then it will sell for approx $1,000. Will have dual onboard SCSI, dual onboard NIC's, onboard video. Not exactly an option for the masses.

The question is, are Abit or Asus developing a dual Athlon board?

Neil3030

apart from the fact that it is dual cpu, i can't see anything amazing about this mobo.
3 RAM slots
5 pci
1 agp

(feel free to correct me if i am wrong, which im sure u will)

Gerry

I'm sorry, but you really are a spanner. If you know nothing about a subject, why do you say "I don't see anything amazing about this board"

Its the first dual athlon board, more later

Neil3030

Well i dont.
And if u are going to quote me, at least quote the words i actually said.
Fool.

Kali

neil read astrofools post for an explanation of how this board is different and dont be such a stubborn childish *******

and as for the wrong quote? "can't" and "don't" and "mobo" and "board" being so goddamn different like. grow up.

Gerry

sorry, I got thrown out of a lab there, and so rushed the post a little.

Basically, this is the first dual athlon board.

What makes this good is that the athlon is cheaper and faster, so 2 of them will make a lethal machine

also. The 760mp chipset uses the digital ev6 bus, as do all athlon chipsets, but on the dual board, each cpu has its own dedicated bus to the memory. This means that the cpu's do not have to share bandwidth, also they do not have to wait for the other to give them control of the bus.

Intel dual systems have to do this, which slows them down.

This board will mean that a dual cpu system is twice as fast as a single cpu systems, with programs/operating systems that are multithreaded.

The design is extremely complex though, this is why it is delayed. It requires twice as many traces ( wires) as a normal dual motherboard, since each cpu has a dedicated set. This means it is more difficult to manufacture.

But when these boards become more common, they will enable people to have a huge amount of power for little cash.

i.e. dual durons.

other points:
It will require a 460watt power supply.

I can't see amd scaling this up to 4 or 8 processors, as the 2 cpu version is already so complex and difficult to make. They are working on a super fast shared bus instead, as are intel. So this will be a unique, extremely fast chipset, and hopefully we will see some mainstream boards with it soon.

And make some sense before calling me a fool. You haven't got an idea, and you don't seem to be trying to learn much either. Also, you couldn't count the dimm slots on the board. Fair play.

strat

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kali:
neil read astrofools post for an explanation of how this board is different and dont be such a stubborn childish *******

and as for the wrong quote? "can't" and "don't" and "mobo" and "board" being so goddamn different like. grow up.</font>

here here - its not the first time neil displaying his massive ammount of muppetry sklillz on the boards

this board does indeed looks like it would make one beast of a machine alright
as more of them appear i assume people will be using them in normal machines for games and stuff- ohh sweet

Kali

460 watt supply?
well thats one stumbling block that will have to be overcome before this makes its way into the consumer (as opposed to business) sector.

handy each having their own bandwidth to the memory.. thing is though this will just give the combined chips the total memory bandwidth that say a P4 RDRAM system reachs at the moment

Neil3030

ok, you are right. it appears to be pretty good.
look at this article i found.

The Specs:

The chipset is 100% NDA so we can’t discuss it. The board does looks like it will be using DDR Ram, the RAM of choice for most of the industries newest motherboards. The S2462 is built on an 8 layer PCB. Most manufacturers won’t touch anything above 4-6 layers because the layout is just too complex, and the yields low. The fact that Tyan has managed to develop an 8 layer PCB at almost 100% yields in this revision will provide a much greater level of stability compared to the standard 4 – 6 layer motherboard.


UPDATE:

A Preliminary Look at the Thunder K7 - The World's First Dual AMD Motherboard

Tyan has long been known to be working on a dual AMD solution. The Thunder K7 (Model No. S2462) as this mysterious board is known is expected to be released sometime in early quarter two of this year. According to a recent announcement on Akiba, a Japanese computer information magazine, the Thunder K7 is estimated to enter the retail market for around 118,000 Yen, or about $950 USD.

While that may seem like quite a hefty price tag, the revolutionary motherboard is targeted at the high-end workstation and the server market, and not the consumer market.

Regardless, what you get for your money is impressive: The Thunder K7 is build-up from an astounding 8-layer PCB and is based on the AMD 760MP chipset which supports 200MHz / 266MHz FSB.

The board has two socket 462 ZIF slots, one 4X AGP Pro slot, five 64/32 bit - 33MHz 6 volt PCI slots and four 184-pin DDR RAM slots for up to 4GB of PC1600/PC2100 compliant memory.

Tyan's S2462 Dual AMD motherboard had dual channel master mode supporting upto four IDE devices with DMA 100/66/33. An Integrated LAN option gives the board two 3Com 3C920 Lan Controllers for 10/100Mbps support per controller. Integrated SCSI capabilities comes from an Adaptec AIC-7899W controller which yeilds two 160M SCSI channels for support of upto 15 LVD devices per channel. Other ports include; one floppy, one serial, one parallel, four USB and PS/2 for keyboard and mouse.

Graphics come from an integrated ATI RAGE XL graphics accelerator with a 4MB SDRAM frame buffer. Aside from the AMD 760MP chipset, the dual AMD Thunder K7 incorporates an IDG-2 North Bridge and Viper South Bridge along with a Winbond W83827HF Super I/O ASIC.

The BIOS on the Thunder K7 is by Phoenix. The 2MB flash BIOS has one interesting feature which allows for multiple boot configurations. Hardware monitors include three fan headers, 2 intrusion detector headers, and processor temperature and voltage monitoring.

Power comes to the Extended-ATX board via 24-pin and 6-pin power connectors. The S2462 is a large board and measures about 12" x 13".

While these are still just the preliminary specifications, they will no doubt generate a lot of interest in Tyan over the next few months before the dual AMD motherboard is officially released.



[This message has been edited by Neil3030 (edited 23-04-2001).]

Gerry

yeah, well the fact that the dual p4 ( foster ) setup will have 1500 megs memory per processor already gives amd the advantage, as it will have 2 gigs per processor roughly. And the other major good point about this bus is that the processors are never held up waiting for it to become available.

Joe22

yea thats good gerry but at the moment you can only get ddr in a max of 256 slots meaning you will only use 1 gig,

Joe22

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Neil3030:
apart from the fact that it is dual cpu, i can't see anything amazing about this mobo.
3 RAM slots
5 pci
1 agp

(feel free to correct me if i am wrong, which im sure u will)</font>

you clearly have a few problems with inter acting with fellow irish people, but the fact is you cant count, i see 4 ram slots in the picture, no flame jsut want to clear this up

Gerry

oops, I meant memory bandwidth. as in 1500 or 2000 megs per second. Actual capacity is 1 gig, as you say.

sutty

Lo all

You have to remember that this board is not out yet, and whos to say that 512 meg ddr dimms wont be out when it comes out (or that its just held back untill the release of this board)

but hay....its all good.

anyone read the review of the 1.7gz p4? THE 1.2GZ ATHLON STILL BEATS IT IN A LOT OF APPS. but whats better is that the AXIA Athlon 1.33gz has been clocked to 1.62gz with air cooling and is stable. Love to see a 1.6gz p4 v 1.6gz athlon (a fair mhz fight)

wopps got it worng, Its AXIA not AIXA I feel dirty

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

[This message has been edited by sutty (edited 23-04-2001).]

Gerry

yeah, you obviously ignored the parts of the review where they pointed out that the p4 is designed for scaling to high speeds, and that at the moment its not high enough. With air cooling, the p4 has already hit 1.8 ghz, and with active cooling, it has reached 2.45 ghz stable.

Joe22

i know people who got a AIXA Athlon 1.2gz to 1.6 gz stable, but these guys are people who get horny at the word overclock and think 5 crashs a day is stable, 1.2gz to 1.5 will be stable, im waiting for this dual one of an abit one then ill be getting 2 1.2hz and overclocking them,

as for what gerry says about intel p4, im staying well away from them, theres so many things with them, they can reach this and that speed, but in the average pc an amd kicks its ass, maybe in afew years time when intel gets its stuff together then we will we it but not how, hell i wont by a p4 because of the rambus memory they force you to use, which is distroyed by high latency.

sutty

yes phil but it can only go at such high speeds because it does less per cycle, what i ment from my last post.....is all the muppets out there that go "oh look 1.6gz thats really fast" "that athlon is crap because its only 1.33gz" but if you can get the two at the same speed, you can show really how badly made a cpu the p4 is. Like the guy in the review said, even with the recompiled programs the p4 is not the best, as even the intel compilers will help the athlon (and the athlon is nowhere near what it can be) as is the p4, but if you where to benchmark a 1.6gz p4 and athlon with the programs compiled to the cpus SIMD. I'd say the athlon would come out on top in most.....but the p4s mem bandwidth would take the test to intel side

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

[This message has been edited by sutty (edited 23-04-2001).]

Gerry

ah, I get it now. 1U is the smaller version, thats wht they had to angle the dimm slots. Anyway, it is a beast of a board. As has been mentioned, it has dual onboard ethernet. And yes, server boards normally have more, larger capacitors, but this one needs them because the dual amd cpu's will draw huge amounts of power, around 150-180 watts between them.

The case for this board would need good cooling, as this board and cpu's will be generating loads of heat.

I think abit have a board in the pipeline, but they are always late to market, so they can have their boards working nicely. Even so, they arent the most consistent or reliable boards. I'd hate abit to rush a dual board out, only for it to be crap.

I dunno whether asus will be making one, but I don't really care. Their amd boards are expensive, run hot, and are not as stable or as compatible even as abit boards.

flamegrill

Iv one other little point to be added to this thread, that is aMD have not yet released a Multiprocessing CPU. I believe it has some demos alright but nothin on the market and i think that they are not bein launched till Q4 this year if not Q1 next year!

astrofool

Intel are planning something special for their P4 XEON, which will basically be like a dual processor on one die, it involves using the dormant parts of the processor when something else is happening, sounds v. complex.

AMD are planning on putting 2 cores on the one silicon piece with sledgehammer, same idea different angle.

What I want to see is a dual DDR RAM m/b, like the I840 w/Rambus, dual channel + low latency, ummm

Nvidia are making chipsets with this capability apparantly, and Micron had a north bride that could be used with other north bridges, samurai I think, won't make it to market, but it held promise for dual AGP setups, Dual DDR channels, Quad processor support etc etc

Maybe hypertransport will do this?

Gerry

yeah sutty, I think every review site on the net has pretty much explained about the p4's lower IPC. My point is that the p4 will be good when it reaches really high speeds. For example, intel reckon the p4 will scale to 10 ghz, and I dont think the athlon design will do that. Could be wrong though.

I advised everyone to stay away from the p4 as well, but its not all bad. Everyone here is just going on the negative hype. Intels compilers are in a poor state, right now they are not taking full advantage of the p4 at all. Rather they have a few extra instructions in them, but they are not suiting the p4's long pipeline, and so are running inefficiently on the p4. Theres practically no software right now that makes the most out of a p4, the only one I can think of is flaskmpeg, which is actually faster clock for clock on a p4.

Rambus is very high latency, and yes this does hurt the p4 in some cases, but it is also designed to compensate for this with its design. The new northwood p4 should have a bigger l2 cache which will help performance further.

The p4 also has a very stable platform. ALL of the reviews I have read for the p4, made a point of the fact that their p4 test machines did not crash at all during testing, unless they were too overclocked. Also they did not have any compatibility problems, hardware or software. This contrasts starkly with via, and shows that intel can jump right in and make a chipset for a completely new cpu, and not **** it up. Ok, there were a few minor bugs in the i850, but they were ironed out before it was released.

Also, people initially complained when intel required a new case and power supply for the p4, but no-one is having problems with their power supply now, and because intel supply an excellent heatsink, theres no heat problems either.

So all I'm saying is that people shouldnt rubbish the p4, especially as the prices have just been slashed, making them nearly as cheap as tbirds. Also, read the reviews of the 1.7 ghz p4. Particularly the tech report one.