phantom and the scene

the dude

yo,

ive been a phantom listener 4 a long long time, back to the days of spectrum. but lately ive noticed that phantom just isnt as good as it used 2 b. i reckon theres a few possible reasons 4 this.

the guys (& gals) at phantom thru their licence application attempt have changed the station to appeal to the larger bratt pop, new metal, etc audience.

music being made at the moment is just **** and its not really phantoms fault, (although they cud just keep playing old good music coz theres enuf of it and there is good stuff out there.)

or

phantom has gotten a bit big headed and rather than seeing itself as an instrument of the dublin music 'scene' it now sees itself as a 'scene' in its own rite.

i notice this especially at the phundraiser on sunday and the mic christopher benefit gig a while ago. there seems to be a slight division within the 'scene'. its not a malitious thing, nor do i think there ne animosity between these 2 element just a divergence of interest on some finer details. the phantom element wud be 1 & musicians who've made it in ireland, & 2 some extent abroad, the frames wud probably b the figure heads of this element, wud b the other.

but dont get me wrong phantom still knocks(& rocks) the socks off ne other station in ireland at the moment. and il keep listening.


let me no what u other phantom listeners think. is there ne truth 2 this r im i just talkin ****?
oh and if ur gona post a reply b rational.

the dude.

---

witty catch phrase/quote/saying etc.

Dan of Ilk

All I can say really is that the whole Phundraiser thingy wouldn't really represent the best in Irish rock music to me at the mo. Phantom has a certain affinity toward the whole Turn, Hopper side of the scene, which to be honest I find uninteresting. Theres a whole other scene, (Redneck Manifesto et al. / all the stuff covered in the Irish times mag a few weeks ago) that doesn't get much airplay there.

Das my opingion anyway...

bren

Agree with ur description "larger bratt pop, new
metal, etc", Turn, hopper, Frames, Revs. L.Park
etc... seems aimed at for that younger decerning listener..

Nothing wrong with that... There are other
alternatives playing a fine mix of musical
genres out there.... Pet Sounds,
Donal D, XFM.... If it's the Jimmy Cake,
Connect 4 Orch., Rednecks etc. and others acts
such as the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, MRMC, Clinic,
Ikara Colt, Icarus Line and the like oyur
after, you'll probably find them being played
with a bit more regularity on these
stations/programs rather than Phantom....

In the end of it all, each to his own....
just turn that dial if you're not happy...
Phantom, XFM, Tom Dunne, Donal, D, the Frames,
Mundy,....etc.... they're all playing a major
role in the resergence of good live music and
more open attitude to music that I've ever seen
in Dublin...long my it continue...

so hats off to all those music makers and
music players I say.....

Just on an aside....
the people who are reaping the rewards are the
likes of MCD who up the prices (considerably
more expensive than their UK counterparts),
line their coofers but wont put back some of
that cash in fixing the sound in the Ambassador...




B's 15 cent....

Trev M

The dude needs to clarify this "two elements of the scene" a bit to me if he /she would.....Im a bit confused...

Is the dude saying that there are two seperate "cliques" on the scene,

one centering around established and semi established bands ala Frames and such bands

and the other being the phantom crew itself and releted musicians that would be phantom favorites as Dan has intimated?


To an extent I can see this to a point but would say that at some point phantom must champion some music more so than others, they must cater for their audience which time and time again they are doing....the phundraiser for me , if nothing else demonstrated in no uncertain terms that phantom is a huge part of the Dublin scene and have made enormous efforts to improve the scene and done so successfully even within the constraints of a pirate radio station. I think you have to bear in mind the current climate in which Phantom operates in and has done so over the past 4 years....I think gratitude was payed at the phundraiser and rightly so! In essence what Im saying is that aswell as phunding/running a decent station they have also ACTIVELY contributed to the indigenous bands generating great interest in what was previously a seemingly hopeless music scene in Dublin.

I look forward to the dudes clarification on the two elements !!

Al the best - Trev

Trev M

Originally posted by bren
Just on an aside....
the people who are reaping the rewards are the
likes of MCD who up the prices (considerably
more expensive than their UK counterparts),
line their coofers but wont put back some of
that cash in fixing the sound in the Ambassador...

B's 15 cent....

B that is a most excellent and fitting point, we can all speculate and debate about the quality of the music, the target audiences, the validity of the scene and its variuos elements and players but at the end of the day the people who make the bucks contribute very little to the scene they just take......am I wrong?
I would like to hear a counter arguement not because I don't think there may be one but would actually like to see if there is a good one.

interesting points been raised here ......this is the second mature debate I've seen on this board this week , Im inpressed ;-).

all the best
Trev

Dan of Ilk

Me thinks you'll be waiting a long time to hear a pro-MCD opinion.. and even longer to hear a rational one.

Trev M

hahaaa Ive seen worse on these boards Dan ...seriously!

the dude

dudes id have to agree with all of u. u make some exellent points and dont get me wrong i think phantom are a god send the developement of live music in dublin has been aided in an unmeasurably great way by phantoms presence. as for MCD, they're a thorn in the side of ne musical group trying to make their way.
this brings up another good argument, which will probably never b resolved, its that music is a form of artistic expression and not an exercise in marketing and money making. but as always theres gona b some dickhead making money off other peoples creativity.

i more wanted 2 no if my perception of the 'scene' was just that, my perception or whather it was seen that way by every1.

kirn

music getting lost in money.

music
musiy
musey
muney
money

see?

anyway joking aside, record companies stopped being music companies in the 90's and became marketing companies.

bobafett

Hi,

there is a definite divide in the indie-alternative scene in Dublin. I would agree with Dude in most of his points, however Dublin's music scene has never been healthier and while my own tastes in music aren't always played by Phantom and despite its faults Phantom's very existence is to be lauded.

The phrase 'DIY' and home-grown are bandied about this town way too much, for example my Club nite in Doyles attracts a diverse crowd from nu-metal kids to left-field muso's and I'm happy about that - the ability to create any kind of scene is based on the get up and go, creativity and belief of individuals - nothing is stopping a morealternative version of Phantom springing up.

Personally I switch between Xfm, Phantom and Today fm.

MCD are scum.

We'd very much like to see intelligent individuals such as those on this thread at jedi night@doyles every wednesday.

kirn

couln't resist a plug there bobafett eh?

anywaysies, phantom is
1 going slightly downhill
>>>>> getting lazy?
2 becoming less essential
>>>>> playing poppier crap
3 becoming more maintream
>>>>> to get the license?
4 becoming smug
>>>>> getting ahead of itself?

but its still preset 1 on all my radios and doesn't look like changing...

IRISHLILY24

A lot of good commentary here.
While I am a relativley new listener and could do without the heavy metal thrasher stuff, I think phantom is great and they are doing a great job with the new bands and dublin music all together. I would like to hear more from the dj's on a personal note as I enjoy a good laugh every now and again, but besides the thrasher stuff I really enjoy the mix of music from day to day, hour to hour. I dont listen to any other station since i've found phantomfm.
keep up the good work !
and props to the thursday challenge crew, I wait all week for an hour of straight laughter, and this week there will be 2 hours, thank you phantom!

joey D

If wider appeal and growing popularity prompts suspicions of Phantom getting airs above its station, then so be it.
Regarding the bands thing, you can't please all of the people all of the time, and all this talk about the evils of money is beginning to sound a bit tired and unrealistic. Long live capitalism.

SimonMaher

Ah no,

Not again! Blah blah mainstream, blah blah lazy etc. Right, I will be up until some horrible hour of the night doing a politics assignment, but tomorrow I will reply properly to all this stuff. Chuckle chuckle, "getting ahead of itself".

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM
Purveyors of Scene in Dublin :-)

clevenger

fucck "scenes" and all that ****e

i said stuff like this a while ago and i'm sure regular posters will be familiar with the "phantom needs a good kick" etc... post which crops up every while(and i started once)

as regards a"scene" ,phantom owes no one, in my opinion, a duty to deliver on some "scene" as they see it bolllocks, thats just ****te.

no the phundraiser bands aren't my cup o tea at all,

turn/la rocca/bellx****te1 etc i hate em all for being boring unoriginal cuunts wannkers dull dull dull music

but!!!!!!! last week phantom had johnny pyro live in the studio who i like, and they support all new irish music even if i hate it,which is great!

Long live phantom,ignore these detractors even if i think that loads of music you play is ****te

just give'us me own dj slot g'wan pete g'wan pete g'wan g'wan g'wan g'wan

polarbelly

i think the fact that most of you still tune in to phantom speaks for itself... you love it!

phantom offers something that no other radio station offers or can offer and that alone is a beautiful thing... that thing by the way is more an everything cos pretty much all the stuff phantom does is unique... ie>

supporting new bands(our band being an example)

playing so much irish music(not including the corrs, et
l*u*s w*l*h stuff)

and in general being sound...
i talked to about 5 dj's at the phundraiser and theres none of this i'm a celebrity egotist stuff that we all know can accompany other dj's(if anyone was at the bacardi plugged heat which the crayonz won they'll know what i mean)

also the fact that most of the shows are actually controlled by the listener via requests, texting and calls straight to the studio, allows little room for anybody to complain...if you want to hear a song... request it!

anyway enough from me,

a long standing phantom listener,

michael

AlisonC

It seems a shame that this 'point' keeps coming up, while all the time speaking for myself, and I know it is to be the case for other presenters as well, that we continue try to find/play new music and keep our programmes new. All the while putting in many hours (not just broadcasting), and not to mention our own funds, all for nothing, but for the sheer pleasure we get from doing it and a passion for music. Real shame.

As well as discrediting bands because of the amount of airplay they get seems a little sad. Or the fact that Phantom supports a certain 'scene'. Because you hear more Turn than Johnny Pyro (just an example) dosen't mean one is any better/worse than another, or any less deserving of airplay. It has been said time and time again it really comes down to individual taste... among other things as well...

Finally to the Dude not sure why you put the gals in phantom in brackets in your original message ... to the guys (& gals) at phantom.... as we are just as much a presence as the guys!

thanks
alison

Trev M

In defence of the dude I didn't think he put the Gals in brackets to offend you , I think he did it as one might go, he/she, if you know what I mean ....that's the way I read it.

Anyway good point about the dissing a band cause they get good airplay, its a bit silly alright. Great personal effort and committment to a cause are very admireable qualities in people however I think that seeking credit for it can be a very fruitless effort but understand the position to defend phantom here.....(I take the point that I should follow my own advice here , before anyone else makes it hahaha)

To me it just strikes as amazing how very vocal people get when they have something negative to say, yet when you ask them to show something positive, how little the same people can deliver, I'd bear that in mind when you look at the various criticisms that keep propping up.
I truely believe that there is a level of begrudgery towards Phantom in some circles(not implying the Dude here at all), and also believe that "the scene" is full of people trying to make a name for themselves "within the scene" and not trying to develop it. The behaviour of some people in my experience, particularly some respected people in Dublin is truely disgraceful, I know its a tough game and all that but attitudes need to change and a certain level of common courtesy is lacking with some elements of the scene, something, I don't think phantom can be accused of and that fact alone makes Phantom unique. Countless people (many on this very board)could relate interactions with various people in the industry/scene that would make ya puke.....Peet Reed knows who Im talking about here too hahahaha!!

In a nut shell I think if people don't like what they get they should do something about it.....and lets face it, some people couldn't motivate themselves to have a scratch in this town never mind contribute something that might in some small way make a difference for everyones benefit.

Of course I refer to a preceeding thread that has caused myself and many people I work with annoyance but neither here nor there. I think there is a fine line between open discussion where you are prepared to take a genuine criticism or comment on board and where you say ok this is pointless and a waste of time as clearly a negative agenda is on someones cards. The skill I guess is in identifying those worthwhile things to listen to and forget the rest . Evidence on this thread and the phundraiser success would suggest "good job Phantom".


Right I've spent far too long on this board in the past two days so I better feck off and go do some work.

All the best,
Trev

the dude

yep thanks trev u pritty much nailed it there.

and yeah the gals in brackets was s'posed to infer that i was not specificlly referring to the presenter of male orientation on the station.

and Pete i certainly wudnt call you all lazy, u seem 2 me 2 b the hardest working sons & daughters (look no brackets, well no till now neway) of bitches ive ever seen(heard), excluding my dad that is.

as regards phantom owing people something: never said they did and i dont think they do.

oh by the way 'the ticket', the event guide thing in the irish times, 2day was pretty good for ne1 interested. it gave me a real feeling that rock'n'roll (and not that new metal crap) is regaining its rightly deserved throne.
and b4 ne1 starts i dont work for the irish times.

to all the dudes who kept the faith especially phantom, nice 1.

kirn

in the last six monhs just i find myself turning off certain songs, whereas i never would before...
its great station and i'm glad it exists, but i dunno i'm only saying this cos i want it to just get better no to level off at a 'good' stage when the 'amazingly good' ins't too far away..

i'd actually like a job in phantom just to see how it runs, not for money, just to see if i could help. i work real close and i could drop in to help for a while if it was needed....

anyway!

gouty

I never listen to the radio anymore, because I don't like any stations at the minute.

For those of you folk who've been whining along to Damien Rice et al for the last five years and are just about ready to come out of your sweat-encrusted angst-ridden no-one-understands me phase... Then go to WONKY in the Guiness Storehouse this Saturday night.

The Redneck Manifesto
Warlords of Pez
The Jimmy Cake

And loads more, for only 6 of your Euros (in Road Records and they're selling fast).

Altenatively you can lie in your bedroom, staring at the ceiling while listening to melaton and cry about something or other.

Thomas from Presence

Now,now! I'll have no dissing of Melaton! Its not very neighbourly to be mouthing about other fellow Irish bands!

gouty

I'm not in any of the above bands.

eric the head

I've been listening to phantom for about 3-4 years and although it has changed ( which is inevitable ) i still think it is at the heart of the irish rock/alternative scene. Most of the dj's know what they're talking about. They (phantom) always are the first to introduce us all to new bands from ireland as well as the rest of the world. The metal show on thursday plays the best range of metal i've heard from any radio station ever. Icon enables me to hear all new up and coming irish stuff.
My advice is never sell out !!;)

Kurdt

i always thought the phrase 'sell out' was a strange one...why is it when a band that's been 'underground' for a while gets a break and gets noticed and sells records they are called sell outs???

hmmm?

Kurdt:knockedout:

Raggamuffin

i always understood selling out to being hypocritical to points mthat a band made whilst part of a much more "undreground" scene.
Maybe its just popular music transition.
I don't think a band should sign to any major label as although the initial cash payment seems maginificent...... the music does suffer.

Rough Trade seem to be doing well now.... and irish bands are getting american distribution deals "southern records are great for that"

America is the key though.
Small labels with substancial fanincial backing seem to be the way forward, or maybe it has always been the way forward.

one example i can think of was Touch and Go records....

i still don't believe in praising irish music simply because it is irish. I think there're already bad lets not encourage them.

jonny

now i think phantom are an extremely good station. fantastic in fact,organised, and the djs are enthusiastic and innovative. ive been listening for 5 years and i have to say, it has changed as all things do, its a part of life. i get sad sometimes listening to phantom, because they do play a lot of crap now. i'm not going to mention bands, but i'll try to telepathically project them to you... M#@!*ON, #ur*, Br#*o, P*d#$tr#@N and lets not forget when jj72 and the revs entered our ears thru phantom, man i dont even really have to say it, because theyre all TYPICAL phantom bands (i could probably name around ten more off the top of my head (and they all sound the same!!)). theyre the bands of which i know all their lyrics but would avoid seeing them play live. and the reason i know theyre lyrics is because in between good music, these bands are played while im sleeping, while im getting dressed...etc etc. i sometimes fell like crying. i dont understand it, theyre lyrically, instrumentally, musically BAAAD. and theyre COMPLETELY unorigional, and what pisses me off is that theyre usually pretentious because....theyre on the radio!!! bah humbug

and im not joking, phantom is one of the things that i cant handle when im depressed cuz it just drags me down thinking that people ACTUALLY like that crap, and those people ACTUALLY think that theyre opinion of music is good, at least with pop the punters just say "i like the pretty colours"

but besides all of this, tis a good station, i have had no problem listening to it for the last half an hour (i think its classic gold (very good))

Kurdt

thats a bit self-righteous of you jonny...

your opinion doesn't count for anyone elses!!! Fair enuf share your opinion but don't diss someone for having a positive opinion on something that you do not...

thats why you don't write 'in my opinion' at the start of leaving cert english essays...coz who elses opinion is it gonna be??theres noone else there!!! ALL ALONE WITH YOUR OWN OPINION!!!

Kurdt:knockedout:

bobafett

as someone who remembers the days before phantom, all I can say is well done to the guys who created the station - it gave the independent scene a much needed kick in the arse.

but this debate is so predictable and lets face it boring.

Yes, phantom has changed - its the nature of life and economics. But it has proved something valuable - there is a market out there for left-field rock and pop.

if you want to change things do what phantom did, get out there put on a event start a station, start a fanzine whatever. Bitching about something never changed anything.

incidently, Jedi Night @ Doyles tonight is going to be a bit special.

Trev M

In a sentence ....


"less mouthing and more doing"