Eircom angry with Brussels action on loop

dahamsta

Irish Independent

EIRCOM has criticised the European Commission over its plans to launch a court action against Ireland for failing to open up fully the local loop to competition.

In the initial legal proceedings, to be announced later today, the Commission will send a form notice to the Irish government concerning the ODTR not Eircom for failing to implement fully the EU law.

Although Eircom narrowly avoided separate proceedings late last year, the telecom regulator now faces this new action on a technical point, along with their counterparts in four other countries.

The Commission believes they have failed to force the incumbent operators to open up the 'sub-loop' to competition the nearest access point on the copper wire network to their clients.

Although the ODTR was careful not to criticise the EU, Eircom was less reticent and said there was no demand for this service in Ireland.

"We find it strange the Commission is commencing proceedings over a product the Irish industry doesn't want," said a spokesman for Eircom. He said the ODTR had carried out extensive consultations with all Irish operators and found that none were interested in this service. "From Eircom's perspective the local loop has been unbundled for 15 months and no one has taken up the service," he said, referring to the general right of other operators to access full phone services using Eircom's network, including the "last mile" of wire into homes and offices.

The ODTR, through the Government, now has two months to respond to the Commission's first letter, but was confident the issue would be resolved without developing into a full-scale legal battle in the European Court of Justice, where heavy fines could be imposed.

"There's no real demand for sub-loops, but we will work with the incumbents to offer this in line with what the Commission wants," said a spokeswoman for the ODTR. "It's something we will deal with," she said.

Last night, the Commission refused to comment ahead of today's announcement, which will be taken at the weekly meeting of the 20 Commissioners.

It is understood that although EU officials recognise the Irish situation, they feel they cannot take cases against some countries that do not comply with the legislation and not others.

The EU introduced the regulation in January 2001 in a bid to cut phone charges.

Conor Sweeney European Editor, in Brussels

rymus

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is the indisputable proof that Eircom are truly in touch with their customers needs

Eircom was less reticent and said there was no demand for this service in Ireland.

Perhaps this is a good time for them to do some valuable market research as I predict the telecoms market in Ireland may have changed slightly since the early days of 'Telecom Eireann'. But seriously - I do find it quite incredible that any Eircom exec would come out with the above quote... Have they not seen the forums/protests?

ando

yep, i cant believe someone from eircom said that

Jpaulik

over a product the Irish industry doesn't want

By this I think they mean the other Telcos in this country, which was/is the case. Nobody approached them about it until very recently.

The public want it, companies want it but unless we have a telco to back us up and speak for us its not likely. Can we not just form our own Telecommunications company and ask for it ? Same goes for FRIACO or am I mistaken ? Has any other company negotiated for this and is that whats needed ?

Lemming

Originally posted by dahamsta
"We find it strange the Commission is commencing proceedings over a product the Irish industry doesn't want," said a spokesman for Eircom. He said the ODTR had carried out extensive consultations with all Irish operators and found that none were interested in this service. "From Eircom's perspective the local loop has been unbundled for 15 months and no one has taken up the service,"

Typical Eircon statement.

The fact that "no one was interested" could possibly because Eircom have made it so difficult and expensive for anyone to gain access to the loop that everyone has said "Not until we see progress" perhaps?

I do recall BT being exceptionally obstructive towards other companies as regards LLU at the start of the process in the UK (until they got b*tch-slapped by Oftel)

Yeah .. "from Eircom's perspective" indeed!!!:rolleyes:

I think the fact that Eircom have been so vocal on this could imply that they know they've landed themselves in deep sh*t and are in for a serious fight - since brussels carries the political & (more importantly) economic clout to force the irish government and/or companies to do something.

SkepticOne

I'm not sure what Eircom is saying is the case. There were a lot of companies interested, but when Eircom introduced their initial price of three times the EU average, most of them pulled out leaving only ESAT in the running.

When the ODTR fixed a price near the EU average, Eircom took them to court. This court case may drag on for a couple of years. Uncertainty over price may drive away demand.

In any case, the 'no demand' argument is looking a little tired now and Eircom should consider some new ones.

dahamsta

Would anyone care to explain what a "sub-loop" is?

EDIT: It's not "tie-lines", is it? If it is, I would be inclined to think there was a hell of a demand for it, which Eircom have as much as killed by removing it from their price list.

TIA,
adam

SkepticOne

"In sub loop unbundling the connection point is the primary connection points (PCP’s), which are the green street cabinets. Sub-loop unbundling can be used for emerging technologies such as VDSL where the equipment needs to be much closer to the home to deliver very high bandwidth services. An optical fibre would deliver the high-speed services to the local green cabinet and VDSL used to send them along the copper pair to the consumer’s premises."

Source:http://www.oftel.gov.uk/publications/local_loop/llufacts/llufacts0501.htm

dahamsta

Coolah boolah, thanks SkepticOne.

Isn't it odd that Eircom wouldn't want to push VDSL out there, when they were one of the first to trial it (in Ennis). Oh, what am I saying...?

adam

SkepticOne

It's interesting that the headline is not "EU takes Ireland to Court over LLU" but rather " Eircom angry with Brussels action on loop. I mean, who cares what Eircom thinks anymore? This story looks like it originated from within Eircom but it is strange in that it can only work against Eircom to have this sort of thing published. If I was Eircom I would be trying to distance myself from this and saying that this was a matter between the Government/ODTR and the EU.

It would not take much work on the part of a journalist to find out that sub-loop unbundling is important for VDSL and that Eircom are currently trialling VDSL in 100 homes Ennis.

One thing is becoming clear, though. The fact that there is little interest from OLOs in dealing with Eircom is no longer an excuse as far as the EU is concerned. About time too.

Paddy20

Query!, to Moderators.

Is this an indication that - Basic 56k modem , Unmetered flat-rate online internet services at a fixed - Monthly fee - may now become a reality?...

As you know most people want this.

Has this story been on the "News" on RTE, or in the Press yet ??.

Yours,paddy20.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by paddy20
Has this story been on the "News" on RTE, or in the Press yet ??.

Yes, The Independent. See above.

Dustaz

Originally posted by paddy20


As you know most people want this.
.

Sorry , but most people dont want it. Most people dont, in fact, care.

Lemming

Originally posted by Dustaz


Sorry , but most people dont want it. Most people dont, in fact, care.

I would go so far as to say that most people don't even KNOW that an economically viable (I think I hear eircom protesting at that statement) model other than per minute billing exists

Paddy20

Query to:- SkepticOne, Dustaz..?

Only the Independent, covered a story as socially and economically important as this??.. If thats right - then what the heck is going on in the media world??...

Are they all "Down the pub"?.

Yours, paddy20:cool:

Tellox

god, bad karma for eircom eh
well...as long as they stick to their word and give us broadband in may...all will be forgiven

Lemming

Originally posted by Tizlox
god, bad karma for eircom eh
well...as long as they stick to their word and give us broadband in may...all will be forgiven

But not forgotten. ANd the FIRST half-decent opportunity I can get to p*ss on Eircon from a height by voting with my feet, I will take it. ANd I think a great many members of ioffl feel the same. I'm sure many ordinary joe-soaps are also VERY fed-up with them [Eircom]

Paddy20

Reply to "Dustaz, from paddy20.

Dustaz, If "most people do not -CARE-?...

Then, why are over 87% voting yes?.. in my "POLL" NATIONAL PUBLIC PETITION.

:cool:

Lemming

Originally posted by paddy20
Reply to "Dustaz, from paddy20.

Dustaz, If "most people do not -CARE-?...

Then, why are over 87% voting yes?.. in my "POLL" NATIONAL PUBLIC PETITION.

:cool:

What percentage of the population that uses the internet, that also knows about boards.ie that is also signed up to boards.ie and knows about the whole irelandoffline thingy is that 87% ???

That 87% isn't the problem - what is the problem is that that 87% is probably closer to .87% out of the possible 100% of total users or potential users.

Hence most users either don't care, or (more likely) don't know about what's going on or to what extent eirsham are bending them over the nearest table for some "fun"

dahamsta

Originally posted by SkepticOne
This story looks like it originated from within Eircom but it is strange in that it can only work against Eircom to have this sort of thing published. If I was Eircom I would be trying to distance myself from this and saying that this was a matter between the Government/ODTR and the EU.

And isn't it odd, as Paddy20 has pointed out, that Tony O'Reilly's Independent appears to be the only newspaper to pick up on it?

adam

Lemming

Originally posted by SkepticOne
It's interesting that the headline is not "EU takes Ireland to Court over LLU" but rather " Eircom angry with Brussels action on loop. I mean, who cares what Eircom thinks anymore? This story looks like it originated from within Eircom but it is strange in that it can only work against Eircom to have this sort of thing published.

What possibly happened (if this originated from within the company) is that they were trying to whip up some anti-EU hysteria along the lines of what the english frequently indulge in. A "hands off *our* company you big nasty EU bully". The funny thing is that if that is the case, it has backfired ... BADLY. Eircom have seriously underestimated the absolute contempt with which most people hold them

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Lemming
What possibly happened (if this originated from within the company) is that they were trying to whip up some anti-EU hysteria along the lines of what the english frequently indulge in. A "hands off *our* company you big nasty EU bully". The funny thing is that if that is the case, it has backfired ... BADLY. Eircom have seriously underestimated the absolute contempt with which most people hold them

What Eircom need to remember is that they're, um, Eircom and therefore disliked. Although most of the population don't care about the Internet, 500,000 people of voting age bought shares in that company only to see a substantial portion of their money disapear. This has not been forgotten. I imagine even Euroskeptics will make an exception in the case where the EU are bashing Eircom. My advice to Eircom would be to shut up - any publicity can only be bad for Eircom. I think, generally, they realise this but just can't resist on occasion. IMO, The Independent would be doing Eircom a favour by not publishing stuff that originates there.

Paddy20

Question:- to anyone that can give me an answer?..

Has any politician, picked up on this issue - and spoken out "publicly" expressing an opinion yet ?...

Typedef

Lemming if you don't stop posting all this sense I shall have to add you to my buddy list.

Stonemason

Eircom has been caught well and truly here, as soon as their so called wholesale price is exposed as "THE" reason that most telcos haven’t been breaking down their door to bring XDSL to a clamoring public.Hopefully the euro bods will slap them with truly punishing fines unlike the feeble ones the coms bill suggests.HOHOHO i have to admit this has cheered me up no end its nice to see a bully (Eircom)getting abit of payback.As for the ODTR hopefully the goverment will now be forced to give them alot more powers to stop this kind of crap.


Stone

OOOOH happy days

billy the squid

I would go so far as to say that most people don't even KNOW that an economically viable (I think I hear eircom protesting at that statement) model other than per minute billing exists

I would disagree with this as advertisements for flat rate internet services are being pumped into our homes via uk tv stations

Sorry , but most people dont want it. Most people dont, in fact, care.

most people might not care but the people that do care anr the ones that matter i e all those internet users who are lining eircoms pockets with absoloutely no exceptions.

Its not a case that they dont care its that they feel helpless and there is nothing they can do about it

Lemming

Originally posted by Typedef
Lemming if you don't stop posting all this sense I shall have to add you to my buddy list.

*oscar speech* Thank you, thank you!! I'd like to begin by thanking all of you who could be here tonight to share this with me ... etc etc.

hehehe

Xian

Originally posted by dahamsta
And isn't it odd, as Paddy20 has pointed out, that Tony O'Reilly's Independent appears to be the only newspaper to pick up on it?

adam
This doesn't seem to have been put up on the ireland.com web site:


Brussels confirms local loop action
Irish Times, March 21st, 2002
The European Commission confirmed yesterday that it had initiated legal action against the Republic and four other member states for failing to ensure competition at the local telecoms network. In its second legal action since the EU liberalised local telephone networks in January 2001, the Commission targeted France, Portugal, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands for failing to open "sub-loops" to competition.
Eircom and the regulator dismissed the legal action as largely irrelevant because competitors here have not asked for these lines to be available. But it is likely the two parties will move to open them to competition in response to the Commission's legal action.
...so the ODTR did comment after all.