More ESAT

Gunn4r · 01-02-2001 11:35am #1

The last 3 nights I have phoned them as I have had to endure about 40 engaged tones before I connect. The customer service monkey is like 'yeah its because people are abusing it'. I dont care what anyone says , when I signed up there was no talk about a 3 hour cutoff and I am prepared to send a mail to complain because no matter what half of england has done when this is happened I personally dont think it is right. I wouldnt be so ****ed off were it not for the fact that they are a crap ISP anyway and I have had dropped connections etc. I agree with some other posts on this board , we are not an ecommerce hub with half the nation using 56k modems...

esat ****in fools

Gun ;-p

Lenny · 01-02-2001 11:48am

eh
just keep mailing them and saying that wasn't the contract you aggreed to
check out the other esat posts see what other people are doing also

regi · 01-02-2001 1:48pm

Connecting to Esat has been abysmally worse since they announced the 3 hour cut off point... there's a silly conspiracy theory on one mailing list that the fact is related...

Esat: let's make connection terrible so people will buy into our plan of cutting off people after three hours for better service

Sounds a bit sophisticated a plot for any irish telco to me

ButcherOfNog · 01-02-2001 1:54pm

esat aren't really to blame for lots of dropped connections. since i got hi-speed, i don't think surf-no-limits has dropped even once, its more line quality problems that esats dialup.

Gunn4r · 01-02-2001 1:58pm

Eh that's what I am going to do, I have as I mentioned checked out the other posts, my point is really that the cut-off is wrong but more that the line is always engaged now....thus this post

Eh ok ? ;-)

I used to get a lot of line drops but not now (since its always engaged)
>>eh
>>just keep mailing them and saying that >>wasn't the contract you aggreed to
>>check out the other esat posts see what >>other people are doing also

THE SPERMINATOR · 01-02-2001 11:47pm

Huh butch u useing sfu on isdn ????

Stone

Skeptic1 · 02-02-2001 2:31am

Originally posted by THE SPERMINATOR:
Huh butch u useing sfu on isdn ????

Stone

AFAIK, nolimits don't do isdn, however to have isdn requires a high line quality so when you make an analogue connection using an ISDN you get a more reliable connection.

THE SPERMINATOR · 02-02-2001 2:56am

It aint the line they change its the little box at the exchange ?????.Unless its not the line from your house to the exchange but perhaps they connect you via a better line out of the exchange ooooooo its all so complicated mhahhaah.

Stone

BTW chorus and unison are talking umetered access for £20 so maybe us isdn user may get a lick of the brass ring [yuk] hehe

ps what the fup is AFAIK

[This message has been edited by THE SPERMINATOR (edited 02-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by THE SPERMINATOR (edited 02-02-2001).]

Skeptic1 · 02-02-2001 4:05am

If you have a bad line and want ISDN then, either they fix the line, or you don't get ISDN. You usually need to pester them if this is the case.

With a good line, then all they need to do is tweak the exchange.

Good news about chorus and unison.

AFAIK is short for "as far as i know", AFAIK.

Moriarty · 02-02-2001 4:06pm

Oooooooo, chorus/unison unmetered eh...
any hard facts on this, or pure speculation, or what?

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

Stephen · 02-02-2001 8:10pm

Unmetered modem/isdn access? Or is this their broadband service with the manky 3gig download limit you're talking about?

Fidelis · 03-02-2001 12:29am

Originally posted by ButcherOfNog:
its more line quality problems that esats dialup.

Nah, I don't agree mate

I have a perfect line, nine times out of ten, I'd connect to IOL No Limits (which I signed up about a year ago) at 50,666kpbs without getting engaged tones. And when playing on the Irish Counter Strike servers, I'd get a ping of about 140-170. I'd also get a d/l rate of 5.5k on average.

But now, aww... now it's just gone down the tube. Multiple re-dials, ping of 250+ if I'm lucky and sloppy d/l rates. I haven't even touched my connection settings/modem/line at all. It really only 'broke down' a few weeks ago

Make the hurting stop. Please.

Nil Desperandum

Spoonman · 03-02-2001 12:39am

Yes, I'd be lucky these days to get over 1k/sec downloads on esat during 'peak' hours, dial ocean and I get average 4.7k/sec? after about 2am downloads are 4.7k sec on esat? I dont think its peoples dodgy lines and dodgy modems. From my experence of late its good line, good modem and bad bad esat.

THE SPERMINATOR · 03-02-2001 4:24am

As far as chorus and unison go

Its actually printed on the leaflets they've been posting around here [tip] says COMING SOON chorus and unison will be delivering unlimited net access for £20 a month.Now i like to belive if they have gone to the trouble of printing it on said leaflets then hopefully they will come thro with it.As for weather or not it will be for isdn users to is anyones guess but as unison do a free isdn service [local call not withstanding]i reckon theres a good chance but don't quote me on that lol.Added tipbit chorus are supposed to be launching there broadband service in limerick in April so this may be the time there rather vague COMING SOON remarks refers to.

Stone

with every appendage crossed

Moriarty · 03-02-2001 1:29pm

Chorus powernet is available to me already... in just outside limerick..
Id have it already if it wasnt for the dodgy 3Gb download limit

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 03-02-2001).]

bugler · 03-02-2001 1:59pm

arrrr i hope it becomes available to me soon, im in shannon, but have received no word of this so far...

THE SPERMINATOR · 04-02-2001 2:36am

Moriarty where you at ?

I only ask as i live out by nenagh.Just wondering if you know if we will get this service soonish i would talk to chorus myself but i think we all know that would be pointless grrr.
Out of curiosity you can get it via cable not transmiter right ?

Stone

Bard · 04-02-2001 9:32pm

Originally posted by ButcherOfNog:
its more line quality problems that esats dialup.

Boll0cks. The problem is purely at Esat's end. You should be able to connect with ANY modem... (even a clunky old 14.4Kbps or - worse still! - a WAP phone!) - the problem is, plain and simple, not enough modems on Esat's end. They seem to think that imposing a 3 hour limit on a connection will help this. They're wrong of course- while it may reduce the number of engaged tones slightly, it's not a fix to the true problem which is that they don't have sufficient infrastructure in place to deal with the demands on their systems.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Paladin · 04-02-2001 9:58pm

Nah its not line quality. Well it is, but no more so than with any other isp. Esat are just particularly bad. Strangely enuff I almost always have a good connect and a pretty decent 170-190 server ping for games, 4-5 kb/s dl speed (6kbs on a close server)

Bard · 04-02-2001 10:16pm

same here - rare enough that I get a problem connecting - and if I do, a couple of redials (max) gets me through fine, with no disconnections.

I couldn't be ar$ed complaining about the 3hr limit. If I REALLY need to go on longer (which is rare), I'll re-connect. I use the net all day in work, and I also do have a life / better things to do in the evenings

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Gunn4r · 05-02-2001 8:10am

Bard

I dont think that people who disagree with the 3 hour cutoff 'dont have a life'. I also use the internet in work all day but in the evenings and at weekends I like to leave my pc connected to irc and also download tunes with napster. It is unrealistic to think that just because your connected to esat you are constantly sitting at your pc.

Gunn4r · 05-02-2001 2:52pm

Bard, who mentioned anything about staying connected all weekend??? This point about 'having better things to do' doesnt make any sense and it totally irrelevant to this discussion.
If I go home and want to download a large file (be it the latest game patches, mp3s whatever) some of these take longer than 3 hours and it is a pain to get disconnected. This was a point made on that Sky News 'Technofile' program where their regular contributor steered uk people away from ISP's with cut offs. 3 hours is not sufficient for large downloads at 56k simple as that.

Moriarty · 05-02-2001 6:37pm

Then dont use IE to download your files

If you use any sort of download manager, you will be able to resume your download, and the same goes for using FTP's. Oh, and how come you always seem to have something new to start *****ing off about..

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

Kali · 06-02-2001 12:03am

I try and connect anytime during 8 to 10pm and at least 15-25 redials (max redials is set to 50 and it has hit this limit on occasion), apart from that once connected its usually alright... spiking for the first 5 minutes is all.

Bard · 06-02-2001 12:44am

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
in the evenings and at weekends I like to leave my pc connected to irc and also download tunes with napster. It is unrealistic to think that just because your connected to esat you are constantly sitting at your pc.

Re-connecting after 3 hours is easy. Having your PC connected to the net ALL weekend is simply hogging the bandwidth. While I disagree with Esat having such limited resources, they do still have them and all their subscribers should get a chance to make use of them.

However, I'm not going to get any deeper into an argument about it than that. Both sides have very valid points and I agree with the vast majority of them. I'd prefer to be able to leave my PC online all weekend, but it'd be unfair to others to do so (and I've better things to do), so I don't.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Gunn4r · 06-02-2001 8:16am

I dont use IE to download files, where did u get that from? Also I dont get this attitude about oh here we go he is giving out again, this is a discussion board for discussion....duh....I believe my points are valid so like get over it

Gunn4r · 06-02-2001 8:19am

I dont use IE to download files, where did you get that impression? Also whats this about 'oh here we go again' this is a discussion board and this thread is about esat, it is FOR discussion. Incidentally to everyone interested in the actual issue itself I have found it easier to connect in the last few days and have noticed speeds have increased. Also this 3 hour cutoff is not working properly as I was logged on for more than three hours last nite.

Stephen · 06-02-2001 1:16pm

As far as I know, the 3 hour cut off doesn't start until March.

Paladin · 06-02-2001 6:41pm

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
Also this 3 hour cutoff is not working properly as I was logged on for more than three hours last nite.

See Stephens post.

Moriarty · 06-02-2001 8:24pm

Well gunn4r, since you dont use IE to download, i presume you use some sort of download manager.. So whats your big problem? They cut you off after 3 hours.. big ****ing deal, just auto redial ffs

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

Gunn4r · 07-02-2001 11:26am

There aint a download manager that resumes napster downloads is there? Redial is **** all use if your playing counter strike is it? Chances are you had to endure engaged tones to get on in the first place and may have even had to wait for a slot on the server only to get dropped?Dont be so blinkered.
Incidentally Esat was the worst ever last nite with loads I got dropped after about an hour having got loads of engaged tones to get on.

Lucutus · 07-02-2001 1:09pm

Different people use their internet services for different applications. Just because you may use the interent for email and a glance at what's on telly for the night, doesn't mean there aren't people designing, developing, downloading, chatting etc connected to ESAT at that same time. Have a think about what sort of closed minded person would imply that these people 'have no life'.

imo Esat imposing this 3 hour cutoff is a denial of service to it's subscribers who, in fact, signed up in the first place purely because of their internet connectivity requirements and cost savings. I wonder if it will remain in place long after they increase their capacity to cater for their customer base?

Lucutus

Gunn4r · 07-02-2001 1:33pm

Lucutus, I agree with you totally. Bard, I agree we should wait and see what happens but some of your points are totally ridiculous, yes you mentioned about staying on all weekend , not me. Some people do want to spend 3 hours in front of their pc or even want the ease of using it for a bit and returning to it for a bit, leaving downloads etc. I have NO difficulty using download managers. Re:Napster I do indeed infringe copyrights but I do not think I am alone in this. You failed to address the issue of online gaming completely. You should read Lucutus post again and broaden your horizon re:net use. What about people who log into work using the net (like I do) etc.

Bard · 07-02-2001 1:36pm

Well I for one never said that people who use the net a lot at home have no life. I just said that I do have one

. I never said, either, that I support Esat in imposing the 3hr limit ... I don't, but it's difficult to take a standpoint or really fault them when I, like many others I'm sure, am not affected by it because I generally don't go online at home for more than three hours at one sitting.

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 07-02-2001).]

Ph0t0n · 07-02-2001 3:34pm

Originally posted by bugler:
arrrr i hope it becomes available to me soon, im in shannon, but have received no word of this so far...

poor you. i work in shannon and i'd say the
internet is the only thing to do there at night.

Bard · 07-02-2001 3:50pm

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
Re:Napster I do indeed infringe copyrights but I do not think I am alone in this.

Not being alone in breaking copyright law doesn't make you any less wrong for doing it. Don't expect Esat or any other ISP to facilitate you or help you specifically with Napster.

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
You failed to address the issue of online gaming completely.

I didn't "fail" to address it, I avoided addressing it. I can't give an opinion on it if I don't have an opinion on it.

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
You should read Lucutus post again and broaden your horizon re:net use.

I don't need to broaden my horizons, thanks. I know already how wide and varied the use of the Internet can be. That doesn't mean, though, that I can comment or have an opinion on every aspect of it.

Cheers,

Bard

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Gunn4r · 07-02-2001 4:21pm

Sorry Bard this is where I leave it. Your points of view are simply wrong to me and always will be;-p
I dont expect ESAT to help me break copyright law (how stoopid is this?). My opinion on online gaming is simple getting dropped mid game is not good , full stop. Hopefully this will help you form an opinion as understanding that concept shouldnt be too hard. You havent broadened your horizon, what about people using the internet for work? You failed to address that too ;-)They dont expect ESAT to help them either you know but getting kicked.
Telling people 'I have a life' is quite arrogant and in my experience those who run around saying such things usually dont ;-)

Moriarty · 07-02-2001 8:02pm

Gunner, anyone who uses the net for work, shouldnt be stuck on a manky dial up connection, and if they are (pitty them) they should be using a subscription ISP that dosent have the user load of esat... Say Indigo, or any of those others...

Secondly, why not just redial before you go off for your game of CS? After 3 hours you will in all fairness prolly be finished playing, and will be doing somin else.... When you go to the toilet, redial then

Thirdly, dont use napster, its ****

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

Skeptic1 · 07-02-2001 10:50pm

I find the IOL "Gold" service which I sometimes use at work almost as bad as nolimits for engaged tones. With Indigo, no problems.

Bard · 07-02-2001 11:15pm

Agreed!

... with Moriarty that is.

Chill, y'all

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Bard · 08-02-2001 12:15am

Originally posted by Gunn4r:
Bard, who mentioned anything about staying connected all weekend???

I did.

This point about 'having better things to do' doesnt make any sense and it totally irrelevant to this discussion.

Of course it makes sense. Of course it's relevant! Why? Because many people, like me, have better things to do than spend over 3 hours a night sat in front of a PC using the net for any reason, and so the three hour cut off doesn't really affect me. That's how it's relevant.

If I go home and want to download a large file (be it the latest game patches, mp3s whatever) some of these take longer than 3 hours and it is a pain to get disconnected.

Then use a download manager. Practically all decent ftp sites can resume transfers these days. Re-connect and use a download manager. It's not THAT difficult.

There aint a download manager that resumes napster downloads is there?

Of course there isn't. Every time you connect to Napster, it's possible that you'll get connected to a different server with a different user base. If you're to be honest with yourself and with the rest of us here, you're probably infringing on copyright most of the time with your use of Napster so the only fair answer when you get disconnected doing that is... tough shít

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. -Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

Gunn4r · 08-02-2001 8:35am

I dont use dial up from work but often check my mail / download documents from our exchange server from home.

I still dont agree with the 3 hour cutoff;-) Getting dropped during CS is unacceptable ;-)

Napster is not **** incidentally especially when your on t3 (looks at his stack of mp3 cd's)

Bard · 14-02-2001 10:04am

Volta have added their voice to the debate with the following in Mondays issue of their NetGains newsletter:

IOL Unlimited Limits Access
When IOL offered its unlimited access off-peak service to customers at a
fixed price, users of the service didn't bank on being turfed off after a
three hour stint. Yet this is what Esat Fusion, who own IOL, plan to
introduce, a service that will automatically log you off once your
'unlimited´ three hours are up. 'You can log straight back on again' explains
Andrew Conlon Trant of Esat Fusion 'Not if it's busy,' responds the irate
payers. "Or if I'm in the middle of a download', 'Or I'm asleep!". Users
have many reasons for opting for unlimited access, which IOL are not
considering. The company is automatically assuming people are surfing the
Internet, but there are many reasons why a user might want to leave the
service open, and this three hour limitation hinders their options. Esat
Fustion explained that the bouncer service is needed because of a few users
logging onto the service and using up the network resources, but surely
unlimited access should not be introduced if the network capacity is not
sufficient to carry such users? Having raised the subscription price for
this service when it was first introduced, is the company now going to
lower the cost, as it can no longer claim to offer unlimited access?

Gunn4r · 14-02-2001 11:06am

Interesting post. Just when you thought the thread was dead eh;-) Just an update from me in case anyone cares, the service was fine right for a good few days right up until last nite when it went ****ed up again ;-( Serious trouble getting through and dropped etc. Needless to say I have called and emailed etc...

ButcherOfNog · 14-02-2001 3:07pm

Originally posted by Bard:
Boll0cks. The problem is purely at Esat's end. You should be able to connect with ANY modem... (even a clunky old 14.4Kbps or - worse still! - a WAP phone!) - the problem is, plain and simple, not enough modems on Esat's end. They seem to think that imposing a 3 hour limit on a connection will help this. They're wrong of course- while it may reduce the number of engaged tones slightly, it's not a fix to the true problem which is that they don't have sufficient infrastructure in place to deal with the demands on their systems.

Ah i know the engaged tones are due to lack of modems, the number of dropped calls tho is what i was talking about, i had plenty of them before i got isdn, i've had none that i can remember since it was installed.

the thing is, esat either introduce a cutoff (v cheap solution) or they provide more modems (v costly solution). they have to be seen to be doing 'something', so they're going down the cheap route.

Honestly, we know what they should do, but it doesn't take a genius to work out what they WILL do.

More ESAT

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