hhuuummm

THE SPERMINATOR

Only a rumor so dont shoot the messenger.Eicom adsl £100 a month hahaha loonys.So if anyones heard any other outrages claims feel free to post here hehehe
Also any news on whether genesis will they be able to free us from eircoms bondage ooooo er missus hehe.

Stone

dahamsta

That's about how much it will cost I reckon, if not more. That's if the ODTR get their finger out and tell Eircon that their pricing proposal was comedic genius.

Oh, and Genesis aren't launching for a while yet. If they're lucky...

TwoShedsJackson

And Genesis will never launch. I'd pay 100 quid a month for ADSL as I'm currently paying a lot more than that for ISDN, line rental alone is 60 quid over two months, call charges yadda yadda.

Dotsie~tmp

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And Genesis will never launch. I'd pay 100 quid a month for ADSL as I'm currently paying a lot more than that for ISDN, line rental alone is 60 quid over two months, call charges yadda yadda.</font>

This is fúcking shocking. NTL in the uk charge 20 sovs a month for cable and five quid to rent the modem. What has the telecom regulatory body said about pricing of broadband? Have they made any recomendations for a pricing structure? Surely they wouldnt let them charge that amount for it. Cosidering how important high technology is to Ire. at the moment its only sensible to introduce this stuff quickly and cheaply (not the last ad dearest in europe).

The management at Eircom must know this, are the fúcking backward or something? Theres no way broadband is gonna become the norm for households if its over £40 (imo). I mean its not exactly brand new technology, its available in the states and many places in europe fora while now.

Not sure who posted it but sum1 said eircom would be charging 9 times the EU average for use of its lines by competitors. Does this mean Esat would have to charge £900. I hope hes very wrong or im going to pi$$ in the eircoms boards cornflakes.

---

Dotsie
ICQ: 44472574
www.dotsies.com
dotsie@dotsies.com

Keeks

Is that £100 all inclusive or will you still be charged for the length of time you are on-line?

THE SPERMINATOR

First up castor i use isdn and try to keep it down to about £250 a bill [ie every 2 months] so if i have enough fingers hehe let me see if it is £100 a month then thats £200 strait up then theres the beloved tax at 21% so that takes us to £242 then theres the modem rental you dont think for 1 mo thats coming cheap of eircom do u ?.My guess is you wont even be able to rent theyll sell you 1 for bucket loads of cash in a brown paper bag like they run all there deals ask the T.D,s lol
Ok on the plus side if and this is a BIG IF they can get there ****e together enough to make it work ill bet the service will be lousy and you wont get the great download speeds and LP your expecting.So i wish i could beleive in eircon but alas i fear itll take an outside company to gives us what we want and need.My moneys on ocean [BT+ESB] to suprise us all.I heard about that 9x,s eu coment too how is it that the irish goverment is willing to stand by and make ireland look bad by turning a blind eye to this crap. They will string this out in the courts forever with the goverment not moving to put a stop to it at all.Mark my words in 2 to 3 year we are going to have the beef tribunal all over again sept it will be called the eircom tribunal.Wooops soz got carried away there.


Stone

Dots has a valid point to on 1 hand you have a goverment trying to bill ireland as a electronic gateway to europe [ie come in dell ms seagate ect ect]and on the other there not doing anything for the e-commerce in this country at all. If they are then they had better start to make it more visable to us COZ I AINT SEEN DIDDLY

[This message has been edited by THE SPERMINATOR (edited 09-01-2001).]

TwoShedsJackson

Well if you already pay X for isdn, presumably you would also pay X for a service that is considerably faster?

dahamsta

For reference, BT pricing is here:

http://64.39.11.43/release4a/explore/price.html

In essence, BT is charging about IR£45/50 for a 500 kbps service. It *won't* be that price here - I reckon it'll be a minimum of £75, and most pundits are leaning towards about £100. It's also most likely at this stage that the service will be released first to business. But most pundits are just guessing, same as myself.

Like I said in another thread though, we have some time to go yet - Eircon are looking for crazy money from the other operators for connection fees and line rentals, which is their way of avoiding a bollicking for slow LLU.

Etain Doyle and the government need to take their finger out of their posteriors and enact new legislation to sort this out NOW, including fines every time Eircon try a childish little stunt like this.

adam

Lucutus

Yes, I too would like to write a "Dear Fúckers," letter.

Luc

dahamsta

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I presume any letter to ms doyle herself is pointless as is any local td.</font>

From reading some of the Decision Notices, and the LLU report, Etain Doyle seems to be a responsible regulator, but I also get the impression that the ODTR does not have as much power as it does and will need to go up against a corporation as large - and unethical in my opinion - as Eircom.

But I think that letters complaining about the lack of competition in the landline telecommunications industry might serve as ammunition for the ODTR, particularly if you're running a business and it's affecting it adversely. Which it certainly does.

So I think people should write to Etain Doyle. And your local TD, because some of them are just as badly affected as yourselves.

But letters should be well thought-out and well-written, otherwise I can guarantee they will be binned. It should be an open letter, copied to other departments in the Government - the Department of Trade and Enterprise for example, and the Competition Authority. How about your local Enterprise Authority? The Taoiseach, since he's always telling us that he's going to make Ireland an eCommerce hub?

And if you have the resources available, you should copy it to the media too. The Irish Times are well up on technology, especially the fair Karlin Lillington (who is syndicated on Wired News I might add).

The ODTR should be the first port of call though I think. I have a letter here I prepared an age ago for them, but never sent, and I think that based on the scandalous inter-operator charges quoted in the papers of late, it's time to reformat it and send it.

I might make it a form letter and post a link to it here so people can do it themselves - anyone interested? Would action like this be more successful if it was organised as a campaign?

adam

Gavin

Bertie seems to be making a wee stab at making us an E-Commerce

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
The Taoiseach, since he's always telling us that he's going to make Ireland an eCommerce hub?
</font>

http://www.bizplus.ie/?ns=1894

Gav

dahamsta

Not being a hardware junkie, I didn't realise until it was pointed out to me that "eCommerce Hub" is a bit of a dodgy catchphrase to use. After all, on a network, what does a hub do? Bugger all, that's what it does. But then again, maybe it *is* appropriate...

adam

Celt

Well im just glad im in Dublin and will be getting cable soon.

THE SPERMINATOR

Ok castor i didnt make myself to clear in fairness what i ment was i have the choice to cut my bills by not useing the net so much where as a fixed rate would mean exactly that.I said my average is £250 but i cant realy afford this so i would not be able to afford what i guesstamate to be £300 a bill with the hidden extras [and a badly implemented service if we can get it this far from dub] cable is out for us country folk not cost affective for the cable companys.

Dahamsta you seem to be very articalate and well informed if you do wish to try to organise some kind of pressure group id be pleased to back you up as would most of our online comunity.

all the best

Stone

Moriarty

Yes indeed, you look like you can express yourself well dahamsta. If you can get anything together, ill be behind you. I would also suggest that somone should mail some international telecoms/hardware/net related sites (such as the register for instance) to raise awareness & bad publicity for Eircom over their apparent decision to keep all broadband services out of the residential market for aslong as possible.

Also, following on from one or two other posts, about what the price may be for xDSL technology in Ireland, it will no doubt be move expensive than in any other EU country, as we are one of the smallest countries in the EU. This gives all telecom companys a very small customer base to start with, meaning that if they want to make broadband services profitable they will have to charge the end user much more than in other EU countrys for the moment to recoup some costs. I would expect a standard 512K downstream / 256K upstream to cost around £60 to £70 pm when it is released by Eircom (or any other operator) into the residential market.

I also suspect that 95% of the people that want xDSL wont have it by this time next year, so dont get any sort of hopes up on a quick resolution imo. Maybe you should look at satellite broadband if you really need a broadband connection right now, its quite cheap and gives you nice speedy downloads all day/night... and most services cover all of europe (which includes Ireland) right now.

Heres hoping for an unlikely resolution . . .

---

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 09-01-2001).]

Chris_533976

Right folks - some important news about all that letter sending.

I am in the middle of setting up a website on the Internet in Ireland, and I am going to put up a page with a letter I encourage everyone to send to the ODTR. I need help writing it to make an impact.

Email your suggestions to cw1000@gofree.indigo.ie . PLEASE!!!! And dahamsta, your ideas sound great, could you ever send them to me.

The website address will be posted here on the tech boards once finished.

This madness about the Internet here needs to be stopped. NOW.

--Chris--

Chris_533976

PS - I already have the support of Douglas Rushkoff - "Connect" article guy from the Irish Examiner. I will hopefully get the website mentioned there.

I also am putting together letters for both Irish and British computer mags, hoping to get a mention there.

I will be careful about the solicitors letter thing like you got dahamsta. I must remember to keep the Eircom flamings to a minimum - well at least enough so they cant get at me.....

--Chris--

Kegser

Oh no!

Not a Solicitors letter!

That is all.

Dustaz

Does anyone have any idea who to complain to? Im a firm believer in 'Disgruntled, Dublin' type letters, if only cos they make me feel like at least someone is getting some sort of message.
I presume any letter to ms doyle herself is pointless as is any local td.
So who?

dahamsta

You can flame Eircom all you want, as long as you don't a) breach any intellectual property laws; or b) defame them.

(By "them" I mean people, since you can defame a company all you want, and they can do screw about it.)

But shouting and roaring won't solve anything anyway, and in fact it will do more harm to your cause than good. A well thought out argument beats shouting anyway.

Look, it's late now, and I've got PHP code flying around my head good-oh. I'll dig out that letter tomorrow and edit it up a little bit.

adam

THE SPERMINATOR

Trick is to use consumer power ie mobilize as many ppl to sign a letter outlining our complaints. Dare I say it organize a couple of days where we don't use the the land lines.This may be hard to implement but worth it in the long run think of say 100.000 [which is only ? percent of users]ppl not spending say 60p an hour it soon mounts up.As eircom seem to be excessively money orientated this should get there attention.

Stone

Overlord

I will back this absolutely. A clear, articulate and unified attempt to point out the restrictive and stifling nature of eircom's policy on internet in Ireland is wholly welcomed by me.

[This message has been edited by Overlord (edited 10-01-2001).]

^Sanantagio

Yea i agree with everyone on this.
We need everyone to sign a petition maybe ?!
Get all the views together put em in a letter and send em to eircom. & other relevant plp.

N1 chris , get the webbie going and get mentioned in a few mags & **** also try sending it to big web sites.

My uncle works in eircom.
And he currently is testing for ADSL , and working at upgrading the systems and sh1t,
ADSL is actually availble now ! but you see eircom want digital tv and **** as well as internet for home use , but ADSL is too slow to take the 5mb pics/sec for the dig tv ,so they are upgrading the system to VDSL , like 25mb/sec, but that wont be up and runnning till the start of next year , by that time the f uKing north pole could get a fast internet connection !!!!!!!

They definaly need to get there act together,
and even if VDSL gets to us its gonna be even more pricy than ADSL atm ! i mean FS.

The only decent connections you can get atm are Leased Lines, T1 , but the most they can go is 512kb, to 2mb and thats utter **** .
and on top of that its 13,000 grand a year to rent the line and the modem ,its a f uking joke.

I mean cable,adsl , have been availbe across europe for years ! and even one telecomms co. in holland where forced to RAISE there prices because other co. couldnt compete !!!

Well im sure everyone in ireland would be in favour of this even the employee's of eircom.

Sanantagio

Sonic

i wish everyone in eircom (apart from bubbles) severe toothaches for the new year

havok*

Yes, set up a site where ppl can sign a partition/boycot.
Theres hundreds of users on boards.ie alone of which 90%+ would sign.
I mean we are the Irish on-line community, we should present our self as such.

---

Clan Acid
Clan Bio

bugler

yesssss. we need to give it a good shot. but,if as i suspect,eircon wont take diddly **** notice of us(many llamas wont respond to tis plea),then ill just have to go into spiteful mode.WHEN we are presented with alternatives and good competition in the telecomms sector,and we are no longer forced to deal with eircon,I will not allow eircon to feed off my pennies anymore. soon as there are realistic alternatives im siding with the competitors,i dont mind if its slightly more expensive etc, I will not buoy eircons profits anymore. i'd urge the rest of u to consider doing the same.

dahamsta

You don't have to get the attention of Eircom. It's the government you have to make sit up and take notice. And they won't do that unless there's a public outcry. Unfortunately, most of the public don't understand these issues.

adam

bugler

yeah i know thats why i mentioned llamas not responding....
nevermind,/me thinks i may be living in london soon......

THE SPERMINATOR

Right lads and lasses

I think the best way forward would be for Dahamsta to post the letter he drafted + an address to send it to [whoever in government].
So we can just print it out sign and post this would be easy which would hopefully mean more people would be inclined to do it.If Chris can rally support from the mags this would be great too .Just a thought but maybe we could enlist the help of those people who are even more financially crippled by eircom the isp providers of Ireland.

Stone

THE SPERMINATOR

Moriarty

satellite is ok for downloads but total crud for online gaming and forgive me if im wrong but you still have to use a landline to send info ie request a page ect ect.


Stone

elexes

i think ur right but someone come online and say im wrong pls id love to think that i could connect at sat speeds constantly . that would be nice ......

---

what type of world will we live in when there is no world ?

Chris_533976

Online petition.... now thats the kind of brainwave thats needed. Right - Im definatly going to get that into the site.

This site is GOING to make a difference. Lets make sure of that.

The address will come soon......

--Chris--

THE SPERMINATOR

Chris

Good man that would be another weapon to the arsenal.


Stone

Moriarty

Sperimator- i know its **** for gaming, hence why i didnt mention it iirc you can get 2 way satellite connections but they cost a bit. You can get download only though, and use modem for upload, so you will have about 60K/sec 24/7 downloading, if you have a queue of stuff setup you dont even have to go online with your modem to keep downloading. Its no good for games, i know that (works out at about a 550 ping with the best possible conditions) to a normally good server. Satellite is good for leeching and surfing though...

---

Moriarty
moriarty@gamersfm.com

^Sanantagio

Stone, the petition was my idea , give me the credit

San

topgold

I've been crawled by people with *dsl*.eircom.net referrer strings since Mar 2000 so it would appear ADSL technology is working in selected Irish homes. Eircom flew a kite with a pricing scheme that's well-removed from the mass market. You won't see that pricing scheme change unless ODTR let Eircom pump broadband entertainment they've created down their ADSL.

It might help if the local loop was unbundled so we can get some real competition into the dense-packed city areas.

/Bernie Goldbach
http://www.topgold.com/connect/

Gerry

Yes ^Sanantagio, when we are sitting on our 50 meg pipes, for £20 a month, you will get all the credit.

THE SPERMINATOR

Sanantagio

To be honest i tried to spell petition but it kept looking funny so i plumped for letter lol. So indeed you have credit for the idea of a petition.

Main thing is that we get as many ppl to sign it.If Dahamsta hasnt posted the draft letter by tommoro ill start a new thread here on tech with a draft of our own so ppl can check it for facts spelling gramma and content ok.

Stone

^Sanantagio

sounds good .
We need to get all major gaming & business websites to support us too, maybe a link to our webiste (Chris hows it coming ? ) so we can get some big hits on the web site, and get the petition signed and sent off with the letter,

It should work

San

Chris_533976

The website is slowly getting there. Just one or two more sections and a couple of graphics to do. It is taking such a time since I have to be very careful about what I say. Cant defame companies.

I will try and get it launched soon. Not this weekend I wouldnt think, but the next or the one after. I'll keep you all posted.

--Chris--

THE SPERMINATOR

Ok ive posted the letter on this forum under the heading Eircom.protest.letter inventingly enough hehehe.coments sugestions [sensible] welcome.

Stone

topgold

I think that people who read this rant and want to create a tidal rant ought to publish single pages where they explain in simple terms how slow teleco service costs them money. Then each page should be linked to a web ring with a focal page that gives the passing punter an idea of what's going on.

The only way the State gets in the face of big business is when many little people begin grumbling out loud. There's more grumbling about teachers striking, road gridlock, dead cows, and Dublin rats in blocked sewers than there is about alphabet soup telecomms. So you have to make this a tidal rant.

People have been talking about the real impacts of constraints on the local loop since at least 1995. That's the first time I heard it mentioned in a public session (during a DCU meeting before the Information Society existed).

You're p i s s i n g in the wind unless you join forces and let observers see raw numbers who care about this stuff.

Faster datacomms is essential to competitive e-business. High speed lines make multi-user international games zones possible. But nobody is going to give you second notice if you cannot prove you speak for hundreds of disgruntled citizens.

I'm not happy either so count me in. I'll do a web page about my views and link to this thread and to the pages of other people. I'll call into several TDs. I'll tell my barber about the high costs of high speed phone service. I'll write 800 words about it for Connect. I'll send letters to several national papers. I'm make a few banners about the campaign once there's an online petition to sign and identifiable people to lead the charge. It would be helpful if those posting here would do some of these things too. Otherwise, nothing will continue to happen.

/Bernie Goldbach Dublin.Thurles.return
url="http://www.topgold.com"]HSCSD on Citygold[/url



[This message has been edited by topgold (edited 13-01-2001).]

THE SPERMINATOR

I agree if anything is going to change we need massive suport.Thats what this is all about making it easier for ppl to get there vioces heard as no offence here i include myself in this that people are generaly lazy when it comes to this kind of thing.Needles to say alot of people feel that whats the point as they never listen you only have to look at the voting to see this what was it last time round? about 42% actualy bothered to vote.There is the suport for this i feel but dont bother asking people to queue at the clinic to see there local TD as people just wont bother.

Stone

topgold

There is a lot that people can do besides rant on this board. If not getting reasonably priced ADSL bothers you, then say something to a pressure point outside of this community. Going to a TD works, although I know most people wouldn't. Writing letters to the national papers work too, because PR companies clip them and use them as evidence of public opinion. Those same clipper companies don't Hoover boards.

/Bernie on Citygold
[HSCSD on the Dublin.Cork line]

THE SPERMINATOR

I keep trying to explain this but ****e it doesnt seem to sink in .The idea is to have a final draft of the letter i posted [or whoever comes up with the better letter] on this forum once we have a letter most people are happy with then we just print it off in the comfort of our own homes sign your own name on the bottom pop it in the post to the relevant persons/TD?[who`s name`s and address should also be posted] In other words a petition each person sending his or her own name on a formal open letter instead of having all the names on one peice of paper.

Stone

Chris_533976

I was thinking - this letter will have to be by the postal system.

So, on my website, I will not be giving Ms Doyles email address, because if a thousand people for instance send it to her, I will be accused of spamming and I will get into ****.

Postal ones arent traced in the same way, or something. You know what I mean.

Next week the website should be launched. Been sick for a few days.

--Chris--

THE SPERMINATOR

Chris thats the idea like kind of a spam on paper sent to show how strong a feeling there is in the comunity.Its hard to ignore sacks apon sacks of letters

Stone

Chris_533976

I added a few bits to the letter you posted, and am setting it up on my website. The new draft is under the Eircom Protest Letter post.

Cheers,

--Chris--