zero strength, 80% quality?? dish misaligned?

ixtlan

hi all,

yesterday turned on the TV and found the dreaded "no satellite signal being received" message.

Then it started working but the signal test showed zero strength and about 80% quality. The channels have stayed on since then but there have been occasional picture breakups and sound glitches.

The signal still shows zero strength... I tried several reboots, and even tried a forced software update, no change.

Is my dish/LNB out of alignment? It's possible this started after the storms last week, though it's surprising that it chose yesterday, dead calm, to get worse.

So...
1/ Should I call Sky about this now? Or should I wait for it to stop working entirely?

2/ I've read the wind damage thread but it's still unclear to me... Will I need to pay for this repair? It's 10 months since the install.

3/ Should I ask the guys to move the dish from the chimney to somewhere more sheltered if possible? I feel a bit hard done by that the installer didn't suggest to me to put it high on the gable which seems possible. What might I get charged for such a move?

Incidentally, why are the dishes almost always installed on chimneys? When as I now belateadly know the gables and walls should be used if at all possible. In fact my installer, god bless him, put the dish to the right of a South facing chimney, appearing like a Mickey Mouse ear... not very aesthetically pleasing...

Thanks,
John.
(in Cork... it's not SCTV testing is it?!)

chernobyl

I honestly dont know how you can get signal quality with no signal.

ixtlan

This has me really puzzled too, but I'm not an expert.... To confirm, the signal strength is zero, no bar at all, and the signal quality is very high, my guess is 80%.

The digibox is a Pace, 10 months old, not sure of the model.
...

chernobyl

I wonder can you do a TP scan?
Try 11.508H Via the add channels.

I doubt that SCTV is having an adverse effect of dish as a Sky dish has a fairly high noise tollerance.

I have heard of Signal Strength being very high and no quality, which is when the dish is pointing at the wrong satellite, but i am confused with your problem.

Mountjoy Mugger

I remember that jiggling around my Scart lead at the TV solved this, when I had Sky Digital.

ixtlan

chernobyl, Thanks for your input.

I've tried the add channels, seems to work fine, finds the 5 or so channels, lets me add them.

Strength still zero, quality still 80. My wife's been watching for the last hour with no problem... Pity it's not raining so I could see if the signal would deteriorate...
..............

chernobyl

You could try removing the LNb cable while watching a channel, then completely power the box down by plugging it out, then re insert the LNb cable back into the box, and start the box up again.

or...
Pull the power cord out of the box, remove the viewing card, press and hold backup on the remote, and plug the power lead for the box back in, whilst holding the backup button.

After a while, no more than 30 seconds the upgrade will begin, and it will take 20 minutes or so.

ixtlan

Hi Chernobyl,

No luck, I removed the LNB cable, seemed OK, then rebooted.

I had already successfully done the forced upgrade, although I don't think there was any upgrade available. The EPG is at 2.8b.... The OS I would need to write down.

The channels still appear to be working fine, with zero strength. It's just my suspicion that soon everything will just stop...

Thanks,
John

chernobyl

I get the feeling that you have some software error, infact im pretty sure but it seems to have no effect at all, so if it does stop working then i would bring the STB to a friends house and test the STB on their dish.

ixtlan

An update...

Last night and this morning things were worse...

Changing channels frequently leads to a Satellite signal not received message. Eventually if you go back and forth I seem to be able to latch onto channels.

I called Sky, they had me try a reboot etc... then told me that an engineer would call out on Saturday. Is this normal? 6 days wait for a repair?

John.

chernobyl

You could wait anything up to a month for a return repair so be ":)".....i think the engineer will replace the box, but whether he will have one on him?

Uncle Grueber

ixtlan, with regard to your 3rd point, you're the lucky one. Here in Dublin, they won't allow the installation of dishes on chimneys or the front of houses anymore due to new corporation or housing regulations or something.

When I asked to get Sky Digital installed, the engineer said that the dish would have to be installed on a line mount (or sumpin' like that) on the back wall, and that it would be an additional fee. So I said f**k that, and cancelled the whole thing.

Does anynoe know of some company that will still install the dish in Dublin on the chimney or gable wall of the house without this additional fee??

Tony

Originally posted by Uncle Grueber
ixtlan, with regard to your 3rd point, you're the lucky one. Here in Dublin, they won't allow the installation of dishes on chimneys or the front of houses anymore due to new corporation or housing regulations or something.

When I asked to get Sky Digital installed, the engineer said that the dish would have to be installed on a line mount (or sumpin' like that) on the back wall, and that it would be an additional fee. So I said f**k that, and cancelled the whole thing.

Does anynoe know of some company that will still install the dish in Dublin on the chimney or gable wall of the house without this additional fee??

Well if it needed a stand off bracket then it wont go on the gable wall, it is in the installers interest to get the job done. The additional fee is to cover the extra hardware and labour involved. Sky dishes on chimneys are a bad idea for several resaons already discussed here. What amount was the additional fee?

Regards Tony

dmeehan

im in cork too
and theres no sign of SCTV interference with my sky digital
so it must be somet else

Uncle Grueber

Hi Tony,
The extra installation fee was something like IR£60 at the time (I'm not sure of the exact price because I wasn't there when they came to install it). I just can't stand these extra hidden costs which you find out about afterwards when you go back and read the 5 point small print in the brochure saying additional installation costs MAY apply.

byte

ixtlan, what was your signal strength like before? Or did you notice? What kinda cable is being used? Crap cable would drop the strength.

Tony

Originally posted by Uncle Grueber
Hi Tony,
The extra installation fee was something like IR£60 at the time (I'm not sure of the exact price because I wasn't there when they came to install it). I just can't stand these extra hidden costs which you find out about afterwards when you go back and read the 5 point small print in the brochure saying additional installation costs MAY apply.

Hi, unfortunately this is what happens when sky want to do everything possible to get more connections. From an installer's point of you there really is no such thing as a "standard" installation so in a lot of cases extra hardware and/or cabling is required. I agree with you that these costs should be more visible when you take up the offer but bear i mind that an independent retailer has to pay full price for the box and then claim it back from Sky (who are slow payers) and they certianly will not reimburse the installer for stand off brackets etc. You should also check that CT100 cable was used, you can do this by reading along the length of any part of the cable.

REgards Tony

Uncle Grueber

Thanks for the info Tony. I presume that you are one of these retailers who install Sky dishes for people? How exactly do you make money if you have to take the brunt of these additional costs yourself?

I cancelled the installation the last time, but it looks like I'll have to go with Sky Digital in the end anyway, because I'm so angry with NTL at the moment (killing Eurosport coverage, etc.) Maybe I could get it through you, if the price was right of course Aren't Sky doing a half price installation at the moment anyway?

ixtlan

In reply to the query about my signal strength, it was always over 60% and the quality was usually 80%.

I'm not sure the cable, must go check it as Tony suggests.

Regarding extra charges, will I get charged for the repair because the dish is on the chimney? Is there really a one year warranty?

Can anyone recommend a reputable satellite installer in Cork, who will listen to my questions and give me some honest opinions, regarding moving the dish.

John -ixtlan.

dmeehan

ixtlan, I have the number of an independent installer written somewhere at home

i'll root it out and post it tomorrow (if i can find it)
he said to call him if there was ever any problems that sky helpline couldn't fix

PS. I signed up in that small shop on Grand Parade that is now a barbers, so i dunno if his 087 number will actually get him now

?

Tony

Originally posted by Uncle Grueber
Thanks for the info Tony. I presume that you are one of these retailers who install Sky dishes for people? How exactly do you make money if you have to take the brunt of these additional costs yourself?

We dont take the costs ourselves. What happen's is I will find out what package the customer wants, I then quote for standard installation and then tell the customer what is non standard IE extra brackets long cable runs, long distance to phone socket etc. I also tell them that the engineer will point out any additional costs before work starts. When you give people to choice of having the dish either on the front of the house or on a stand off at the back it is then their decision although we always point out the planning issues involved and possible neighbour complaints etc. In general if you are straight and honest with people there is rarely any problem.

REgards Tony

bmg

it is possible to have a zero signal strength bar and a good picture. the bars are only a rough indicator and its possible enough signal is getting through to show a good picture but not any on the strength bar. more than likely your dish has moved.
if you have a motorised dish and move off 28E then the signal strength bar will dissappear before the picture does (on my pace box anyway).

chernobyl

Originally posted by bmg
the bars are only a rough indicator

If they are so "rough" then why does the Sky box meter accurately reflect the LNb meter i have.

bmg

what i meant was if the signal strength bar is at 80% on one satellite box ,it might only be at 60% on another box i find that the bar goes up higher on a pace compared to panasonic using the same dish and lnb.this doesn,t mean one is better than the other, just that they are possibly calibrated differently.so no signal on one box can be 20% on another.

chernobyl

If there is no signal then there is no "lock" then logically the box should not work, but somehwere in the software signal is registered but the value is not being passed to the STB meter.

There is signal, and it is above 40%, thats why the Tv works at times, so i think the guy needs a new box but im a completely confused on how he ended up with this prob.

Maybe you are right that the dish has moved.

dmeehan

signal strength isnt all that important with a digital signal because all that is being trasmitted is 1's and 0's. Whatever the signal degradtion may be, it is easy enough to repair it as there are only two possibilities 1 or 0. An analogue signal suffers more from signal degradation because it is harder to repair a degraded signal because of the large/infinite possibilities of values that can be transmitted.

Tony

Originally posted by dmeehan
signal strength isnt all that important with a digital signal because all that is being trasmitted is 1's and 0's. Whatever the signal degradtion may be, it is easy enough to repair it as there are only two possibilities 1 or 0. An analogue signal suffers more from signal degradation because it is harder to repair a degraded signal because of the large/infinite possibilities of values that can be transmitted.

Signal strength is vitally important, I think you are forgetting about the s/n ratio. If itwas of no importance then we could all pick up sky on much smaller dishes.

Regards Tony

chernobyl

Ofcourse strength is important.
The box needs to lock onto the transponder to work, any signal above that is of no use only in adverse conditions.

With digital its all or nothing, it either works or it does not and so is not as forgiving as Analogue.

ixtlan

Just to conclude this....

Quite a nice guy came Saturday...

He told me that if the dish was mis-aligned, it would be 108EUR, since warranty did not cover wind damage.

However, fortunately for me, it was indeed a faulty digibox, as Chernobyl had suggested.

So I now have a new Grundig (with the svideo port), and all is well.

Which suggests another thread to me, about repair costs.

Ix.