the state of the board

irokie

ok, i know that i've only been here, what? a month, but in hte last week or so, i've seen about 7 threads go down without even one measly reply...

people here are a little too cynnical, or just interested in promoting stuff... which is a shame.we, the phantom generation should be debating gritty and pertinent issues and working out how to make the city ours! we can conquer!

but we never talk anymore

pugwall

Yeah............this recent surge in promotion is really pissing me off.:mad: If its no presence, its gigsmart, jedi knights, international.....the list goes on and on...etc...
Promotions should be banned from this forum.
Anyone wanting to promote whatever should set up a seperate gigs/events forum.

manofspeed

Wud yez all phuck off. Promoting gigs is the lifeblood of building up a scene and getting people to gigs. This board is a forum for the irish scene, therefore it is important that people know what is going on, so don't give us any of that shyte....

Brautigan

Hear Hear Manofspeed! Trebles all round!

PiE

Originally posted by irokie
we, the phantom generation should be debating gritty and pertinent issues

Like...?

atonal

speaking as a non-musician and a non Dublin resident most of the time I think most of the promotions here are more or less relevant and less spam-like than most boards. They in general are local in nature not "street-team" style stuff promoting linkin-bizkit or sum-182. Anyway I dont mind, it helps me keep tabs on a music scene I am very interested in and am all to often far away from.

manofspeed said it well.

Monkey

there are better ways to promote gigs like these:

www.thingsyouremissing.com
www.eventguide.ie
www.entertainment.ie

and e-mailing pluglist@phantomfm.com

clevenger

not too many places left in this cruel world where fragile independent irish indie muscians can holler meekly thier mating calls, and lure unsuspecting groupies and punters to their gigs,

so i say promote promote promote, this is one of the few places where the listeners/readers care.

Thomas from Presence

I think its great that there are gigs up here because, I, like most ppl on this forum I'd wager, have an interest in going out to see live bands.
Its really cool that I can see an ad for a band I've never heard of and then check out their mp3's, judge their entertainment value and then go and see them.

I can then ask questions or post comments about the band and the gig and I don't have to consciously search for the thread. I can be browsing the normal topics et voila theres a potential night out.

I haven't plugged a Presence gig since November btw pugwall. My none plugging posts minus my plugging posts far exceeds your contributions to discussion on this forum too btw! (Sticks tongue out at pugwall while simultaneously waves hands from side of ears, why isn't there a smiley to do this?!)

If you don't want to look at an ad then don't open it. If you want to keep a discussion live then contribute a new point or slant to the debate that will illicit a response!

DadaKopf

Originally posted by Monkey
there are better ways to promote gigs like these:

www.thingswhatyouremissing.com
www.eventguide.ie
www.entertainment.ie

and e-mailing pluglist@phantomfm.com

That's www.thingsyouremissing.com

Trev M

Hi Irokie,

I guess I should respond because Im guilty of this heinous crime of which you speak...

First off, in my own defense its not self promotion, gigsmart is designed, operates and functions as a network giving a unified voice to a collective of musicians and bands.......

If you look at the regulars on this board i.e the people who keep the thing alive, most, probably 90% are in one way or another connected directly to the irish music scene, this to us, is more relevant than issues such as who's better blink 182 or Greenday etc, and remember nothing is stopping you from starting a topic yourself. Another point to be made is that the regs on this board actively support Phantom, have been played on Phantom and will contribute in any way necessary to sustain phantom and keep the grass roots growing on the live scene....

It might surprise you to know Irokie but I go to a lot of the gigs that are posted here(not just the gigsmart ones ), I check out websites that are posted here(have a couple of links to them on our site!), I help were I can........in short I contribute as do a lot of the regs involved here...not just the gigsmart people but all the lads and lassies working hard to get their music heard in the **** bowl that is the irish "music industry"...

I was talking to Steve Conway last week about a couple of things and one of the things we discussed was how far removed the people who control the industry are from the grass roots scene....you wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard from people who "know Irish music". Not to be melodramatric but its f*ckin scary !!

It's a reflection on the irish "industry" that bands and phantom have to operate this way in Dublin, it truely sickens the life outta me, people choking the thing to f*cking death to squeeze the last cent outta people where they can.

The promo on this board is far removed from real problems that exist, it is not spam and I for one have made a huge amount of contacts, friends and have learned a lot. Perhaps if you became more active you could appreciate a bit more how hard it is to operate under present circumstance and might appreciate what a lot of people here are trying to do. I say you should get involved because I assume you are not already I accept I could be wrong but think if you are involved in some way, you fail to see the phantom board as a resource like many of us "promo people".

Well, yet another long winded rant, ....apologies once again.

All the best - Trev.

Raggamuffin

phantom generation?
god i always thought it was a radio station.

And i always thought that a well rehearsed band plus word of mouth and decent songs are what got a "scene" going and people into gigs.

obviously i was wrong

And whats wrong with being cynical, theres alot of ****e around at the moment well at least thats how i see it.

Gar_ptc

there is alot of crap,muffy,bit this is a form of word of mouth.christ you really are getting on my nerves,raggy.
"obviously i was wrong"
damn right you are wrong;ppl dont just gog to gigs anymore;
this board lets ppl kno whats on.
i'm a bit too lazy to go off to another site to see whats on.

i trust these phantom board ppl.
we're all lovely here

mixer007

At least putting a post up here promoting a gig gets to the ppl you want to see it, rather than a poster that most ppl will just walk by. It's hard enough being in a band without ppl giving out cause you promote yourself and make an effort to get heard.

the dude

the dude agrees with joey d. the prevelence of the man and his machine is worrying. the dude thinks a seperate board for gig and the like is in order.

Gar_ptc

the only people bad mouthing this are those not in bands.

how can they comment on the plight?

Monkey

"the only people bad mouthing this are those not in bands.

how can they comment on the plight?"

We contribute to the forum so we can comment. I've never gone to a gig based solely on a message on a music board.

the "things" mailing list was invented purely so that independent bands/ promoters/djs etc can have a way of announcing gigs to people who want to hear about what's on.

I frequently see things plugged on this board but not in THiNGS

2 examples at the moment are:

JEDI NIGHT @ Doyles, College St.

Gigsmart in the Sidewalk cafe

send listings to thingswhatyouremissing@yahoo.com by the monday of the week that the gig is on.

www.thingsyouremissing.com

the fnj

And I was planing on advertising my gig on this board.

Your loss!

DeVore

Would a "Live Music" board be of interest?
I know we have a music board but thats busy as is and doesnt have this sort of stuff (and wouldnt welcome it I'll wager).

Any interest?

DeV.

ps: the board has a moderator who can quickly delete stuff if the community doesnt want it... I dont really like to moderate boards like this one as its not my place to tell you what you can and cant see/read (to that level... donkey porn is right out, ok Fanj )

Trev M

I would be interested to see what phantom themselves think of this thread....

I have on many occassions asked phantom personel if there was any objection to the use of the board in this way and I have never had a complaint. I would also like to make the point that most of the people here who do plug events contribute in other ways to the board.......

regrading the "things" link monkey, many thanks for that, I'll check it out. We have used the phantom board consistantly for two primary reasons...( i note you yourself have used it in the past to push your website, so don't be too quick to criticise!

1. Gigsmart grew from this board, probably 75% of the bands and artists involved use this board

2. Some of the DJ's in Phantom are interested in what's going on in Dublin, have little time and can see what's goin on when they look here........

Devore....I guess the issues remains open, if you put up a live music board I would use it and maybe the Gestapo here will get off our backs ..if its not one thing its another.....!


All the best Trev :rolleyes:

Carobobaline

BLEH!

Trev M

Bleh ...right on


or

Bleh ...shut up fool ??

Thomas from Presence

Of the 19 posters on this thread 4 are openly against advertising. One of whom advertises on the board in the same manner to which he's criticising. (nuttin personal monkey its all in the interest of debatin!)

To reiterate the point I made earlier: If you do not want to see an ad then don't open it. If you don't want to see a non ad topic disappear then keep it live by contributing to it.

Personally I think this board would die a sad death if there was no evidence of an indigenous music scene here.

If I was to post a complaint about anything on this board it would be a request for people to stop whinging about the quality of topics and post something worth discussing thus taking the initiative to improve the topics themselves.

atonal

Originally posted by Thomas from Presence
Personally I think this board would die a sad death if there was no evidence of an indigenous music scene here.

INDEED!

b20uvkft6m5xwg

I think as DeV. said he doesn't want to meddle into the affairs of a community board but there is a lot of shíte posted that is totally OT from anything to do with alternative music in general or Phantom.
Case in point...
http://troll.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42225
A thread about Bushy Park!!??
and I dont even think they're talking about the one in Rathgar!

Maybe some stricter moderation is needed to keep things OT and to stop ppl free loading on Advertsising Expenses. In the long run it works.

Just my 80"p"

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by Thomas from Presence
To reiterate the point I made earlier: If you do not want to see an ad then don't open it. If you don't want to see a non ad topic disappear then keep it live by contributing to it.

I think your missing the point there Thomas...

1. I personally surf the boards so I dont have to be bombarded with ads and promotions that litter the rest of the web

2.Boards is not a vehicle to fulfill you own commercial asperations. Its a free service paid for by the admin out of their own pockets. Hence they have the discretion as to what they allow and dont- Thats only fair

Having said that though I wouldn't mind seeing a gigs/live board- so long as its not just promoters pumping shíte at us and its genuine recommendations for cool gigs to go to!

Gar_ptc

the bands that post on this board are anything but comercial;they just want to play in front of a crowd.

they arent tryiong to fulfill any commercial aspirations-well not like MCD etc...

Monkey

Ah I'm not against it but it's not good on it's own is all I'm saying and I don't start threads to promote stuff not a for a long while

Thomas from Presence

1. I personally surf the boards so I dont have to be bombarded with ads and promotions that litter the rest of the web

I'd meet that argument by saying that the phantom board was and largely still is composed of ppl interested in the local alt rock/rock music scene and has had gigs posted one it since whenever. Usually a gig ad becomes a post mortem discussion of the gig afterwards as many ppl on the boards attend the gigs.

2.Boards is not a vehicle to fulfill you own commercial asperations. Its a free service paid for by the admin out of their own pockets. Hence they have the discretion as to what they allow and dont- Thats only fair

Agreed. I'm sure if posters were told no gig advertising on the boards then I know any gigsmartians would comply. But as I said gig listings have been posted here for an age and a half so nobody saw any wrong in it.

The two posters who started this debate are only on the boards one and two months anyway and the response against them (except you pesky moderators!) has come from regular long term old guard phantom board members.

As regards commercial gain that is an unlikely occurence on the Dublin music scene! I can assure you of that whole heartedly!

Anything gigsmart has put up is by real posters who contribute not big companies who post solely to advertise. Where just telling our online buddies and other parties when the next shindig is on!

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by Thomas from Presence
The two posters who started this debate are only on the boards one and two months anyway and the response against them (except you pesky moderators!) has come from regular long term old guard phantom board members.

Ehhh...
I'm spelking in a personal capacity, notwithstanding I'm not a Mod on this board-Thats Pete Reeds job.
And BTW what qualifies as "regular long term old guard phantom board members". How about making the 2nd post on the entire board- when we were still using UBB...hmmm.....Listening to the station since 1996 when they were still in a shed in Sandyford...hmmmm:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Thomas from Presence
As regards commercial gain that is an unlikely occurence on the Dublin music scene! I can assure you of that whole heartedly!

I didn't say "gain", I said "asperations" which is wholely correct.

Trev M

Ahh whats the point here , jesus everyone getting upset over a few ads ...don't go to the gigs ok , don't read the posts. Your exactly the same as the people who post and complain about phantom not playing the music they want...don't listen then

80's prioject your contribution has been duely noted Im sure by all on the board, repsect the fact that people here for the most part want to know about gigs, Phantom themselves do not have a problem with it..... EVIDENTLY !!!

Other complaintants.......

Maybe Phantom should cut their plug list eh....?

Maybe all the bands should get stuffed even further by paying Hotpress a couple of hundred quid to advertise on a space the size of stamp?....like it isn't hard enough and expensive to organise a gig in this town...?

Maybe we should use forums that nobody reads huh?

Im really annoyed by this thread....so many people ragging and they do NOTHING to try and improve the scene, they sit on their high horses with their "I know all about music crap" , their holier than thou attitude, type absolute crap and do nothing to help!

Who are you people, you know who I am, you know who Tom is, we're open to suggestions, comments and offers of help to contribute....but nooooooooo lets rip on the lads and all the bands who bust themselves to play a few pxy gigs?? F^ck that and some wonder why the irish scene is in a bad way....why its big label or nothing, why MCD charge rediculous prices...why rehearsal space is so limited, why nobody gets signed, why all the radio stations that are licenced are muck?....I can't fix it, possibly nobody can, but making some improvements is a start ...getting people in the door is a start, and putting up a post here helps that to happen...

By the by, Steve Conway was at a gig posted here....maybe that means nothing to you guys.....but it means a hell of a lot to me and all the bands that played and were in the audience at that gig....
ya see that's called "SUPPORTING a scene" not an original concept , but one that appears to be lost on a lot of people


I've become a little stressed here and do not want to pick anyone out here but looking back on past threads its clear that some people persist with criticisms that are designed only to frustrate and antagonise people...... get a reaction and start a p*ssing contest.

I am frustrated and tired, its a constant F*cking battle out there with muppets making life more difficult for people trying to get a break, for the life of me I really can't understand why people go on the way they do....ya swear we were out shooting kids in the street or something.!!!!

I won't post on this thread again, if you want a response from me make your post here so all the world can see and email me
at gigsmart_ireland@yahoo.co.uk


All the best , to some of you.....the rest of ya, get back to where y'all belong,
Trev M.

slash99

Well said Trev. If Phantom have a problem with it let them be the judge of what goes on the board or not.

Paul Hare

Trev, I don't think you need to be wasting your time replying to that crap.
Just let them complain and ignore, its only a minority.
The majority of people I think who do connect to this forum are into music and want to check out whats going on. Since I joined this forum I've met many bands and evolved myself in a music scene and I thank this forum for that. I personally like checking out bands web sites, reading up on them and downloading their MP3 and if I see their playing a gig cool I might check them out.

The people complaining obviously aren't interested in looking for something new and local.
Remember people that Phantom Fm supports and plugs unsigned Irish bands, why should it be different on this forum.

I could write more about this but I ain't got the time.

Paul


www.ginsengmusic.com

pixe

Here Here!

Trev, a song.........


"life a piece of ****,
when you look at it,
Lifes a laugh, and thats a laugh it true,
When your chewing on lifes grizzel
Don't worry, give a whisle,
And hopefully things will turn out for the best....and....."

anony

I've no peoblem with bands advertising their gigs on the board.... it's less hassle than bad photocopies and wallpaper paste...

It's funny to think how you basically bombarded with advertisments for 16 hours a day, every day..... unless you live in a cave

speaking of ads....is that the singer from Placebo in the Special K red berries ad ? ...got very old looking, didn't he

James_M

Originally posted by Paul Hare
Remember people that Phantom Fm supports and plugs unsigned Irish bands, why should it be different on this forum.

Bravo! Nicely summed up.

Goodnight folks

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Nobody is denying that bands in Dublin dont deserve support-
I personally was responding to the motion put at the start of the thread of which I agree. Having said that I would like to see a live gigs board- Its more a matter of decipehering between what is promotional threads and other music stuff and at times on the phantom Board its difficult to do so.

DeV. seems to like the idea so maybe someone should post it on the admin board.

[EDIT]
Beat me to it Pete:)
BTW...
Paul (Speedman)
If you want me to edit my post please e-mail me and I will accordingly oblige- no need to get the Mod and people to start calling me at home.
[/EDIT]

mixer007

What I've noticed after reading all this thread is that most ppl want to see the ads, as we are calling them. Anyone in a band will tell you how hard it is to get ppl to come look at your band. So, every little helps. Do the ppl who don't like these posts get pissed off when they see posters in Road Records?
To me, it's exactly the same thing. It would be something if we were on a cooking forum advertising our next gig, but it's all relevent. Too many moaners, too many begrudgers = Irish Music scene. Looks like 6 will be number one, looks like Walsh will be around for another decade. Great stuff. If you like music, support it and stop knocking any band that gets off their arses even if you don't like them.

Support Music and we'll have a nice little underground scene going on. Variety is the spice of life after all.

Thomas from Presence

Its more a matter of decipehering between what is promotional threads and other music stuff and at times on the phantom Board its difficult to do so.

It is important to remember that a lot of us know each other in the real world and this is a place were we can have discourse trancending the saptial/temporal confines of the pub/gig or whatever. What I mean is we are a real community and the ads are like telling all your friends and have had the effect of making friends and connections in 'the real world' as I have found myself from this board above any other.

The people who contribute to the forum (the community members) can be distinguished from the aliases that were created solely to promote quite easily by checking the profile and the past posts.

pixe

It's more envirmentally friendly to advertise here!

SimonMaher

Right,

Finally between bouts of metal straightening and swinging from metal poles on big mountains, I get a chance to reply to this one.

Heres the deal. Phantom have no problem with people promoting gigs on this board provided they are run by non commercial organisations. Its all part of the service and all that stuff.

There are however a few guidelines for this and it really gets on my wick when people don't respect them.

1. For Gods sake please only start one thread per gig. From now on I will be a great deal more fascist than I already am, and will delete multiple threads on single events.

2. If you bump your thread up the list by use of *bump* or other irrelevant material, I will delete the thread. If you have nothing interesting/relevant to ad, don't post.

3. Please attempt not to ruin Phantoms tiny bank balance by promoting after gig clubs as "the best Thursday night in Dublin", or as one posting had "far better than Whelans on a Thursday". Give us a break here! We need to buy a new mast in the next few days remember!

4. To keep the board less cluttered, I will be removing threads about gigs as soon as I can after the gig has happened.

5. Please do your best to start as many inclusive, interesting and thought provoking other threads as possible too. Its fine to plug gigs on this board, but talk about other stuff too!

Think thats it for now. Any queries, just email. Meantime, its back to the hills and the spinning aerials.

Regards,

Pete Reed

Gar_ptc

thats groovy.

j!ve man...unless MCD exploit the board...AAAAAAAGHH!......Aaaghh


yeah.