Human Alteration - Need Insight!

RopeDrink

Occy and a few other people already know this, but I've been working on a novel for the past two years (Yes, it's going extremely slow at the present moment) and it's tightly based around the idea of being able to create artificial human life, or the utilisation of technology to give a corpse a state of after life...

Basically it runs on the rather ridiculous idea that if a living brain was to be transfered over to a dead host, that body's organs may once again function (With the aid of technology to give the body a kick start) and give the corpse some form of new life - Seeing as this particular experimentation works in the novel, various other things are carried out before giving a corpse life, such as altering the appearance, giving it fresh new limbs and eventually leads up to horrific alterations (Once the success rate had grown) and making these human templates into vile, vicious beasts before granting them the gift of life...

Eventually the Organisation crumbles under its own pressure seeing as they've been creating excellent killing machine with human intelligence (Rather than a pathetic zombie) and they manage to free themselves by any means necasary (mainly violence )

Some of the "Alterations" made were:

Charred, layered skin - Skin is given a second layer, this one being heated and charred to toughen it up, making the actual creation jet black in colour...

Lower Center of gravity - Arched Spines, which make the things sturdy during sprints...

Skeletal Enhancements - Basically, extra joints were given to the basic human structure, but holes were drilled into the entire skeleton to lighten it (air pockets), which also would incease running speeds and steadiness during sprints, yet would weaken the creature substantially if attacked.

There are so many other creatures / alterations I've listed, and luckily enough, i haven't started any hardcore chapters or anything for the novel, but i do have about fifty pages of notes and suggestions...

With your help and criticisms (Please, if your going to criticise, make it constructive - I fully acknowledge that some of these ideas of mine simply would not work - But It IS only a novel!)

I'd write a lot more here if only I knew this topic wouldn't be ignored like last time, and I'd write it on the Literature Board, but im not asking about the literate side, Im asking about the scientific side...

What is your view on Artificial Human life, or the ability to create a human!? there was also a programme on the discovery channel a few days ago which gave me some insight, so the idea is being discussed today, and it was "Apparantly" possible...

Thoughts please!?

scipio_major

Hmm. Interesting.

At first gaze it looks possible (Takes time to point out the fiction only has to make sense not be true). It is pretty much an accepted literary "scientific" fact that large electric currents can jump start a dead corpse.

The creation of life itself isn't all that hard to do, if you pass an electric current through a certain mixture of inorganic chemicals (I have no idea what), you find that a number of simple single cell creatures now exist in the sample. I'd like confirmation on that last point but I'm pretty sure I read about it. I *can* remember using it in an arguement with my religion teacher though as an answer to that "chicken-egg" arguement for the existence of God.

AS for the alterations I'd say that they'd be possible with a little extreme surgery and gene-splicing. Once again I reiterate SF doesn't have to be realistic only sensible.

"The difference between Fiction and real life is fiction has to make sense" - Tom Clancy

Fade to Credits
Scipio_major

Clinical Waste

I wouldn't bother with the holes in the skeleton thing, not so good for bone marrow and of course the spine is untouchable.
Speed gain would be minor compared to overall weakness. Artificial strengthening of joints would increase speed more if this is important.
And on this point, the charring of the skin would completely lose its elasticity making any form of movement difficult. You would end up with a Frankenstein.

BTW: If you want to research more medically, try Medline. A resource where you can search through almost every medical paper ever published. Just type in what you after, and see what comes up.

Saruman

It's alive.... ITS ALIVE.... hmm sounds familiar...

However would be interested in reading it... Any idea when it will be ready? Are you serious about writing or is it something to pass the time? I started one myself, no serious and its so messed up and the story so off the wall it would never get published... in reading the few chapters i did i seem like i was on drugs or at least pretty drunk... funny considering i dont do either!

RopeDrink

Scipio, big thanks for that - I was expecting a nasty response so far but you've proved me wrong! You hit the basis of the story smack on the head - The idea was that a template was to be made out of human corpses, or simply use a basic corpse, and either attempt to electronically kick the dead brain into life, or use a mild electrical charge to actually keep a living brain alive whilst it's being transferred from a living host into the new body, which seems silly seeing as the "Volunteer" would merely be killed to give life to another - Although seeing as it was a discreet organisation, It may be used as some for of "Punishment" i.e. being used in the vile experimentation carried out...

As for you Clinical Waste, don't you feel that little bit better now that your actualy offering valid points rather than that nasty tripe on the AfterHours Board!?

Saruman, Im taking this story extremely seriously... I can tell you that my dedication to this novel has spouted my CS clan, which has been running solid for two years (Yes, it's named after the company in the novel, V.A.R, whilst it's been a massive influence over many things I do online - Im currently making a VAR mod based loosely on the novel itself, and you can check it's amazing progress on the Game Editing Board - there are two threads, the oldest obviously being the one were you'll find the story details, and the "Anyone Interested in doing some Modeling..." thread shows what makes it different from your average upcoming HL Mod...

I have so many notes, mainly based on the creatures being planned by the company, an 85% complete list of the characters in the novel, including their personalities and significance in the novel, a sub-plot which comes to the whole idea of artificial components, or the mixing of basic altered components which result in highly beneficial sub-components and other things which may seem a bit extreme, but it's there incase I want to divert the plot of the novel to a point were it has something to do with the creatures etc being created as a part of a Military Experiment being undertaken in order to create a strain of "Enhanced" Human Troops that could excel in ability beyond those of normal human fighters, whilst still maintaining their grip on humanity...

So far the two components that I've created are "Rithone", a red based component comprised of samples of Methane, Sulphor and some form of Acid - If this is mixed with the "Elathix-One" (Blue) component, which was made in order to negate Rithone, you end up with an oil versus water type effect, were the heat generated from the expansion of Elathix-One (On contact with Rithone) begins to spark up an expanding ball of chemical energy that eventually caves in on itself and implodes, causing utter poisonous devestation...

Some of these idea's are silly, but thats all they are - Idea's. The main plot has been decided and will stick regardless of what I plan to throw in the novel... One thing that does slightly resemble the "Frankenstein" idea, and it's something I've drawn pictures of over and over because I love it so much, is the "Byssonososyss" project - The original idea was to see if they could blend a basic Artificial Human with the "Stalker" project (The creatures that had the supposed "Charred" skin and were built for speed - Explained Above) - They had to cross the skeletal structure of the two, and eventually gave up on the merging skeletons and decided to simply extend a Human Skeleton with that of a Stalker - Eventually they created a nine foot skeleton with minimal flesh on it, with an extra arm joint, re-created skull (Resembles a Shark in many ways), Ostrich / veloceraptor type legs and the rest was human like... It has the basic organs such as stomach, for nutrition, and brain / heart and the majority of other vitals but the basic outlook of the Byssonosyss was a nine foot walking, partially covered skeleton. It was my oldest idea (i.e. I planned it 2 years ago during the start of my novel writing) so I think it's a little extreme after having second looks and might have it scrapped...

There are various other "Idea's" I have, and if your willing to give them some constructive reviews, I'll post them up - I can't do it right now, because i have to leave the cafe.

One thing you can think about though - The "Simon" project - An experiment carried out on a corpse - Do you think you can fit a body with a completely fresh and new skeleton before kicking life into it!? In this case it was one made out of Cobalt... Funny, huh!?

Actually, start off by telling me if you've understood a single word I've said so far

bonkey

Interesting ideas Rope, but I would have one overriding question, which you may or may not already have the answer for. Its not necessarily a reason to change your plot, but something you may need to explain...

If technology were sufficiently advanced to allow us to effectively brain-transplant, modify skeletons beyond the recognisably human, and indeed mix n match with other species.....why the hell would we still be using organics?

Take your charred skin. Useless for cooling purposes - it should not conduct water well. Also, unless the nerve-endings were damaged, pain would still be a huge issue. Of course, damping this would mean less sensitivity, unless you could limit the "signal peak" to prevent severe pain, while still sending enough info to let the individual know "this hurts".

Anyway, when you look at the biological impact (very few parts of the body serve only a single purpose), you quickly come to realise that the changes are so profound that there is little reason to remain with organic compounds, unless they prove to be "best of breed". The "skin-weave" armour from Cyberpunk (or Shadowrun?) would be far superior to the "charred skin" you refer to, while not really adding any significant complexity in the problems to be overcome.

In short, if we had the technology you describe, I would find it far more probable that cyborgs would result, ultimately culminating in the only organic component being the brain...and that would itself be "extended" by computing power.

If you've read The Gap Series, think of Angus - the welded cyborg. Could your "super-animal" regenerates (is that a word? It should be) hold their own against a man/machine combo like him? I very much doubt it.

So.....if you dont want to change your story, you need a reason why this path wasnt followed, or you can disregard it. Of course, the last option kinda destroys the point of asking for opinions here, which (I assume) is to make your concepts "tighter".

Best of luck with it. When I'm a bit less busy, I'll go through what youve posted on the game-design board and get back to you.

If you ever want a "bystander" opinion on anything for this, btw, feel free to PM me.

jc

RopeDrink

Thanks for that Bonkey, was a rude awakening (In a nice way)

To be blunt the charred skin theory was a mere idea - I mainly put it in for the black skin, and for the creature to be able to withstand a wider range of attacks. I also said it was to be a "Second Layer" (To make the creature more resistant to piercing / slashing attacks or maltreatment. The actual skin was to be under the charred skin. Of course, thats was still just an diea - I'll have to get back on that...

As for the Cybronics etc The main gist of the project was to ustilise human corpses to re-create humans. It turns out that the projects carried out were to be utilised in Military Operations (Secretly) and seeing as the majority of these "Experiments" still have a degree of humanity left in them they'd be far more capable / reliable that a cybronic being which would have to be made out of more expensive materials etc... I mean, using a dead body would be a lot quicker than building cyborgs from scratch with metals and alloys (And far more costly)

Think about it - A war is raging, bodies everywhere - Bodies get collected, recieve the nessecary operations and the body is back out on the battle field killing others (In whatever shape or form desired)

Another idea behind the project was "Human Perfection" - The Stalkers were made to be a lot faster and lighter than your basic human (That alone is an advantage), whilst having certain things attached (Like talons, claws, longer teeth, ocular enhancements etc) that would also make it capable of overwhelming the majority of creatures on earth...

If it was solely for Military Purposes, then it would be an inexpensive way to create extremely capable killing machines, cheaply - Yet it would cause quite a lot of moral issues and would have to be kept under the hat.

I haven't really come up with other solid thoughts but if you get any yourself then please express them!

I'll get one of the chapters I sketched a while back and post it, just to keep the interest going.