Fine Gael - Car Insurance

SheroN

fine gael it seems are proposing to offer first time drivers a €400 grant towards paying for their insurance. To get this €400 you have to complete a course of 25 lessons, if you already hold a full driving licence you still have to do the 25 lessons to get the grant. Would ya not be better off getting a job for a few saturday mornings?...get your €400 that way, sounds like a lost less hassle.
Fine Gael = Funneh

Biffa Bacon

Have they not learnt yet? People are interested in real policies, not gimmicks. How anyone could want these half-wits in government is beyond me.

Saruman

A bunch of spanners all of them!

Meh

25 lessons is going to cost in the region of 400 euro anyway...all this is is a hidden transfer from the government to the driving schools.

Biffa Bacon

What I want to know is, why did these people enter politics in the first place? What did they want to achieve? Where are their ideas, their beliefs? And how does this latest hair-brained scheme fit in to this?

bonkey

Elections are about winning votes. Its very simple.

There is a portion of the population who will vote for "their" party regardless. There is no benefit in campaigning for these votes.

After that, we are left with two sets of people. The "whats in it for me", and the "tell me about your policies". The former by far outweigh the latter.

The average Joe on the street doesnt care about big fancy issues. When the government say "we will tackle XXX", Joe asks "what will that do for me?"

If you have two parties, one who says that they will tackle the age-old-problems in a new and interesting way, and the other one who says "we will lower your taxes", its pretty easy to see who will get the votes. The majority of people will vote for the immediate gains.

Similarly, FG, (and others no doubt) are offering relatively cheap incentives which will hopefully buy them the easy votes from specific demographic sectors.

We will refund you your loss from the sale of Eircom
We will help bring your car insurance down

In short - vote for us, and we will pay you back in hard cash.

Its a despicable, shallow tactic, but the simple fact is that there are a lot of people who would be swayed by it.

jc

tHE vAGGABOND

fine gael seem to be promising the earth, moon and the stars to every minority group in the whole country..

the seem to be about as electible as the tory party in the UK..

could you actually see that bald twat as our leader to the rest of the world

swiss

Its a despicable, shallow tactic, but the simple fact is that there are a lot of people who would be swayed by it.

Fine Gael have certainly come under a lot of criticism recently as a result of their recent foray into what many may term 'auction politics'. Some of this criticism is warranted - after all Fine Gael have consistenly accused Fianna Fáil of 'throwing money' at the problems with society, and in particular our health service, without taking the kind of imaginative, visionary approach that is obviously needed to resolve the current stagnation permeating all echelons of the sevice. That makes this current proposal a very rich proposition indeed (no pun intended )

However, to describe this tactic as despicable and shallow is tantamount to calling much of politics the same . Every party makes electoral promises, and many of these promises relate directly to the monetary wealth of the target electorate. This is the first I have heard of this proposal, and it does surprise me somewhat - I would have thought Michael Noonan and co. would have more political acumen than to try (essentially) the same trick twice after their failed attempt at vote buying by promising to reimburse Eircon shareholders. At a time where the electorate have never been so cynical in relation to politics or electoral strategy it is unsurprising that so many see this as a cheap ploy to buy votes.

Car insurance is crippling for young drivers. I would have gotten myself a car some time ago were it not for this indisputable fact. If I forked out for 25 lessons, I would actually expect some discount from many insurance companies that would acknowledge that fact. The reality is that I would still have to pay hiked-up premiums that I could not really afford. Doubtlessly, €400 would alleviate that burden of debt a great deal and hence would significantly improve my mobility and hence my standard of living. However, as I have said before, I do not believe that it is the purpose of Government to pay our bills for us. It makes it more difficult for successive administrations to determine who or who not may be eligable for such assistance.

I would consider myself a FG voter, although I am by no means a trenchant supporter of the FG cause. Their image has been tarnished in recent times, due to circumstances both due to and outside of their control. They have never before really billed themselves as a populist party, and they do not fit the mould of such well. Michael Noonans promise of 'giving politics back to the people' rings disconcertingly similar to 'throwing money back to the people'. Judging by the previous posts on this thread, I don't believe that many will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Meh

Originally posted by swiss
Car insurance is crippling for young drivers. I would have gotten myself a car some time ago were it not for this indisputable fact. If I forked out for 25 lessons, I would actually expect some discount from many insurance companies that would acknowledge that fact. The reality is that I would still have to pay hiked-up premiums that I could not really afford. Doubtlessly, €400 would alleviate that burden of debt a great deal and hence would significantly improve my mobility and hence my standard of living.

Look a bit closer at Noonan's proposal. The reason it's so fvcking retarded is that 25 driving lessons will cost you in the region of 400 euro anyway. Therefore, there's no benefit to you. There's a benefit to the insurance companies, who will get more young drivers to buy insurance at the same extortionate price. There's a benefit to the driving schools. And the taxpayer pays for it all.

bonkey

Originally posted by swiss
However, to describe this tactic as despicable and shallow is tantamount to calling much of politics the same

Politics is about give and take. Its about negotiations. I accept all of this.

However, would you say that a valid election campaign would be : I will present a cheque for €400, drawn against the state coffers, for any <insert demographic here> who votes for me?

Ths is effectively what Noonan is about.

If you would accept that, would you similarly accept some party saying in the Dail : Vote for this resolution, and we will give each of you a large chunk of cash from the state coffers.

This is not negotiation. This is confusing politics with capitalism.

As for Meh's assertion about the course costing about €400. Well, I dont know if the course itself will be private or state-sponsored, so for the moment, I'm assuming that Noonan is talking about state-sponsored courses, otherwise I fail to see how he's going to sell it to anyone. I would say that 25 courses would cost a hell of a lot more than €400.

jc

swiss

A child of six can understand this - fetch me a child of six, I can't understand this

Well you were warned

However, I still think there would be a benefit to people taking this plan. Aside from the very obvious fact that 25 driving lessons per driver should in theory create safer drivers and hence cause fewer accidents (which really goes beyond any price) it will also aid drivers, particularly those who are struggling with driving theory and practical tests - to actually pass those examinations.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't think that it's a great idea for the reasons Meh, bonkey and I enumerated. It aims at benefiting those who are marginalised financially, and though the idea of helping them out is laudable (especailly considering I'm a member of that 'marginal' group - being a student et all ) that kind of money can be put to better use elsewhere - such as supporting auxiliary services for young drivers, for example allowing those wishing to study for the driver theory test access to educational material free of charge etc.

swiss

Erm, I don't like double posting, but I only saw bonkey's post after I posted my last.

Originally posted by bonkey
However, would you say that a valid election campaign would be : I will present a cheque for €400, drawn against the state coffers, for any <insert demographic here> who votes for me?

I don't mean to be obtuse (or perhaps pedantic) here, but it really depends what you mean by 'valid'. It is generally acknowledged that politicans make many promises to the electorate before an election in their election manifesto. It's all about convining people that they can run the country in a manner that best suits their interests. I would class Harney's tax - cut promises as vote buying - albeit in a slightly different guise as the argument is that lower taxes encourage economic activity, thus improving affluence levels as a whole.

Almost every election promise affects the pocket of the target electorate of the party. Cries of 'we will lower/abolish this tax' or 'we will raise/lower (delete as appropriate) this ceiling on payments'. Although convincing arguments can be made as to why a particular tax cut is necessary - just as arguments can be made detailing why a tax rise is necessary, I believe that such political campaigning falls beyond the scope of merely being 'right - wing' or 'left - wing' politics.

Labour might well campaign for a tax rise, or perhaps, a stagnation of tax rates at current levels (as opposed to a tax cut). This obviously appeals to much of their target demograph, which is historically semi-state employees. Since extra funds mean extra funding for semi-state institutions, it improves the wages/working conditions/staffing levels of said institutions.

On the other hand the PD's might campaign for aggressive tax cuts - on the premise that it stimulates the economy. This is certainly true, but such tax cuts primarily benefit high earners - PD voters. You may disagree, but I see many policies that come from government buildings as 'vote-buying' - particularly in recent times. It is merely not as blatant as the latest FG proposal.

So, if my above point makes sense please make sense, please make sense then these election 'tricks' are perfectly valid, and are used all the time. Whether or not they are acceptable depends, I suppose, on the mindset of the particular voter.

ubb edit

Victor

Originally posted by bonkey
Its a despicable, shallow tactic, but the simple fact is that there are a lot of people who would be swayed by it.

Maybe. But other countries do finance training for young drivers (in parts of the USA it's on the school curriculum).

Winning Hand

You almost wonder where fine gael plan to get their money should they get into power, in the last few weeks this is their election manifesto

1. Reimburse Eircom Investors: Nothing ventured..........

2. Taxi drivers : F*ck off

3. Reduce VRT, give my right arm for that one to happen but it aint gonna.

4. This insurance yolk, "if you already hold a full driving licence you still have to do the 25 lessons to get the grant", hmm, so after state sponsored driving testors find you to be perfectly safe to be allowed onto the roads the government turn around and say you cant have this discount unless you go on 25 lessons. Do you get a special licence for this? Is it a €400 p.a. or just once off?

What next, going after the prisoners votes, If you vote for us we will release you???
Noonan needs a slap into the face

NeRb666

I suppose throwing a few €400 cheques around is cheaper than building a decent (and therefore safer) road network.

It's looking like a taxi driver who owns a lot of eircom shares who wants to learn to drive (and let's face it, they all should) is going to be making a fortune if (and that's a big if) FG get elected.

SheroN

Do you get a special licence for this? Is it a €400 p.a. or just once off?

it's a once off....

Victor

Originally posted by Winning Hand
You almost wonder where fine gael plan to get their money should they get into power

I think all this could be done for the price of the Bertie Bowl.....

amp

Imo the only significant thing Finé Gael have contributed to Irish Society is electing a leader that allowed Today FM's Gift Grub team to make the funniest sketch's i've heard since Scrap Saturday.

"When are you going ta give meh, meh big day out"