"Omagh bomb monster Colm Murphy..."

antartica

Dear Editor,

The reporter Barry O’Kelly in the Sunday Business Post reminds me of what Eoghan Harris rightfully identified as the “hush puppy provo”. Mr. O’Kelly’s indignant articles on the Garda handling of the case against Omagh Bomber Colm Murphy are profoundly offensive. It is clear as crystal that the twenty nine dead shoppers from that barbaric, historic Irish day mean nothing to many commentators like Mr. O’Kelly. And there are others like him in influential positions among our “chattering classes”. Mr. O’Kelly’s point of view was being talked up on RTE’s Sunday show in the days leading up to the RIRA man’s sentencing. Is it any wonder so many atrocities occur on this unusual island of ours when some of our more educated sons and daughters are ready to explain the grimmest slaughter away. The most appropriate journalism I have found often occurs in the tabloid newspapers. The News of the World today opened their account with the line: “Omagh bomb monster Colm Murphy…” Sometimes, Mr. O’Kelly, sir, you have to call a sharp cutting instrument a spade.

Mise le meas

Sand

I agree. Too often you see people trying to make exscuses for scumbags like this guy. I can understand their idealism, maybe this Kelly guy thinks hes serving the public interest by keeping the Gardai on their toes, but theyre quite naiive imo.

Victor

Would we prefer to have a few gobsheen Gardai let the perpretrators off?

bugler

Interesting. Why do I get the strangest feeling that many of those who rage against certain journalists -who "explain away" atrocities such as the Omagh bomb- are quite happy to swallow whatever tripe certain other journalists use to "explain away" other atrocities. What other atrocities? I dunno, maybe the deaths of innocent civilians in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, just to take an example. Myers does a good job of explaining away the deaths of a million Iraqi kids. There are plenty of people willing to explain away Israels illegal actions in the ME.Harris explains away lots of things.He should go back to writing instructions to Unionist politicians on how to avoid answering questions or engaging with republicans or the nationalist community, OR return to being an adviser of John Bruton - both equally worthy pursuits.

So yes, sometimes there are apologists for republicans, and if you want to be outraged then fine. It's just a pity that most of the people who spit out their dummies when they see it happening in one case turn around and applaud it in another.

Personally I'd like tabloids to be banned, or at least forced to write about celebrities and sport exclusively, must the Stalinist side in me :P Tabloids do nothing except promote attitudes borne more out of emotion than reason. Aswell as telling us about which celebrity got REALLY DRUNK last weekend, of course.

gandalf

Heres the "offending" article

Conviction doesn't excuse Garda lies


By Barry O' Kelly
Dublin, Ireland, 27 January, 2002


On RTE's Prime Time on Tuesday night, PJ Stone, the president of the Garda Representative Association, criticised the media focus in the wake of the judgement in the Omagh bomb trial hours earlier.


Stone pointed out that Colm Murphy, the first man charged in connection with the atrocity that killed 29 people, had been convicted thanks to the work of the Garda. That should be the focus, he said, not the alleged misbehaviour of two of the Garda investigators.

"It's a great pity," said Stone, "that we have now moved into an area to try to discredit the Garda Siochana in terms of their investigative approach. The issue in respect of this case has been clearly determined."

Asked about the judges' comments about the "outrageous" activities of the two Garda officers, Stone responded: "You are using words that are very dangerous here . . . I cannot second-guess the trial judges . . . we should not jump to conclusions."

What the judges said about the two officers was pretty conclusive and it did bring discredit to the Garda Siochana in terms of its investigative approach.

Detectives Liam Donnelly and John Fahy, who effectively represent half of the interrogation team, were found by Justice Barr to have fabricated a statement by the accused man, not once, but twice.

The fabrication is all the more disturbing because it concerned a relatively innocuous remark attributed to Colm Murphy in Monaghan Garda Station on February 22, 1999. All of Donnelly and Fahy's interview notes with Murphy were under suspicion and ruled inadmissible as a result.

The key lines are where Donnelly asked Murphy about whether a named relative might have taken his mobile phone to Omagh.

Donnelly said: "She's [a named woman's] sister, isn't she?"

Murphy replied: "That's right."

Donnelly and his interrogation partner, Fahy, only discovered some time after the interview that their purported statement did not tally with reality: the named woman is not related to Colm Murphy.

According to last Tuesday's judgement, at this point the statement with its incorrect information had already been given to Garda Whelan, the custody officer in Monaghan.

Donnelly, having realised his mistake, then had to retrieve the notes from the custody officer and rewrite the statement, eliminate the incorrect elements and then return the new version to Garda Whelan "apparently without his knowledge", according to the judges.

In their ruling on November 15, the judges found that the original statement attributed to Murphy, where he is questioned about his relative, was also false.

"It is inconceivable that the accused would have confirmed a family relationship which in fact did not exist," the judges said.

"The court is satisfied that no such question was put to him by Detective Garda Donnelly or his colleague."

All of this only emerged by chance. Unlike all the other unsigned statements written by the Garda interrogators, the one referring to the relative was composed on top of another page from the notepad. This left imprints on the page beneath and the traces of the original note were picked up by an ESDA test conducted by an expert brought in by the defence.

Introducing the ESDA evidence, Murphy's lawyer Michael O'Higgins said to Donnelly during the trial: "What I am going to suggest to you is very crude stitching, where the hem line has come apart."

Donnelly replied: "I didn't rewrite them. They are the notes there . . . I never asked him about his sister in law . . . I never mentioned it, nothing."

The ESDA test also found that the interview with Murphy ended 31 minutes earlier than it was claimed in the statement produced to the court by Donnelly and Fahy.

If the detectives had not made the crucial error of composing the first fabricated statement on their note pad, we might never have been the wiser about what happened.

But Garda forensic expert Geraldine Butler carried out her own ESDA test on the fabricated notes after the revelations in court by the defence -- and she confirmed in cross examination that the notes were indeed rewritten.

Commenting on the case in general, Donncha O'Connell, director of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, said: "Even allowing for the high conviction rates of the Special Criminal Court, I found this verdict somewhat surprising on the basis of the evidence and given the manner in which the trial had proceeded."

Meh

Originally posted by antartica
The reporter Barry O’Kelly in the Sunday Business Post reminds me of what Eoghan Harris rightfully identified as the “hush puppy provo”. Mr. O’Kelly’s indignant articles on the Garda handling of the case against Omagh Bomber Colm Murphy are profoundly offensive. It is clear as crystal that the twenty nine dead shoppers from that barbaric, historic Irish day mean nothing to many commentators like Mr. O’Kelly. And there are others like him in influential positions among our “chattering classes”. Mr. O’Kelly’s point of view was being talked up on RTE’s Sunday show in the days leading up to the RIRA man’s sentencing. Is it any wonder so many atrocities occur on this unusual island of ours when some of our more educated sons and daughters are ready to explain the grimmest slaughter away. The most appropriate journalism I have found often occurs in the tabloid newspapers. The News of the World today opened their account with the line: “Omagh bomb monster Colm Murphy…” Sometimes, Mr. O’Kelly, sir, you have to call a sharp cutting instrument a spade.

Logical fallacy number 42

gandalf

Heres the link

http://www.sbpost.ie/story.jsp?bottomadvert=&rightadverts=&rightnav=/common/navs/right/sponsorsnav.jsp&leftadverts=BusinessStandard&advert=/common/adverts/top/sundaypaper.htm&title=Sunday+Paper&story=WCContent;id-36888&list=businesspost

To be honest I find nothing wrong with that article at all. If the court decided to dismiss the case because of the actions of the 2 Gardai in question where would that leave you then. They need to resolve problems like this so any other murderers in future won't be given a loophole to escape Justice through because investigating officers cut corners.

What do you want antartica a Police State where the officers of the law can do no wrong and cannot be held to account if they "bend" the rules.

Gandalf.

antartica

[sigh] where do I begin.....
the letter was submitted to the SBP, email + cut and paste allows huge recycling of a good rant [saoirse republican news, irish times, indo, examiner, etc etc] [hobbies are a diversion]..and bulletin boards are good places for shooting the breeze...
its a matter of nuance and emphasis, the sbp featured on their frontapge murphys hard as nails wife as if she was the victim of omagh...it got worse.. she cried shame at the families of the dead shoppers in the gallery...the mind boggles..i guess her own shame was overwhelming her....
on the same page as the article above the sbp included a huge picture of bomb monster murphy and a tiny picture of the carnage of omagh with an opaque tint
talk about a picture telling a thousand words..the sbp [which is too much in thrall to blood hungry thugs] [always] cannot stomach a straight photo of omagh because for them and a few submissions above the bald fact of the carnage is an inconvenience on the ''one road to a nation once again casualties of a just war'' and all of that devalued evil..[the unification of ireland is not worth one death]..now some submisions above make the inevitable snide suggestion that if you are not with us you are against us...my own genealogy is composed of ancient gaelic blood lines including ui neil, odonobhan, o morain - so its up to us gaels to stand up a be counted and tell murphys friends [about 50 right now in portlaoise] and groupies OKelly above, Cleary in the Indo, poet Theo Dorgan on 'RTE Radio, etc etc......you see its all about the next Omagh and its prevention...so let the debate continue and the violence stop forever.......................a question for passing readers should the rira disband .......... using your ananymity just submit a yes or a no

gandalf

So your getting a knot in your knickers because the SBP had a bigger picture of Colm Murphy and they actually questioned the behaviour of the investigating Gardai. My god you have very little to worry you then.

Again I say if Mr. Murphy had been let off because of the actions of these Gardai what then, answer me that.

Your rant is saying nothing at all. The fact that Mr. Murphys picture is bigger than that of Omagh is because in this case HE is the story. As regards those other journalists maybe they do have a slant towards republicanism I'll look at their work with this in mind in future.

Maybe you should tell the British Government to come clean on atrocities like Bloody Sunday while your in rant mode. Ask why State forces shot 13 unarmed innocents dead on a peaceful civil rights march. Maybe you should ask if the PSNI & Gardai should be held to account over a botched and unco-ordinated investigation of the Omagh atrocity. Maybe ask if the Loyalists who carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings had British Military Intelligence help. The list is endless.

Gandalf.

ReefBreak

Maybe you should tell the British Government to come clean on atrocities like Bloody Sunday while your in rant mode. Ask why State forces shot 13 unarmed innocents dead on a peaceful civil rights march. Maybe you should ask if the PSNI & Gardai should be held to account over a botched and unco-ordinated investigation of the Omagh atrocity. Maybe ask if the Loyalists who carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings had British Military Intelligence help. The list is endless.

You've gone on a needless troll Gandalf. Antartica never said that any of the above shouldn't happen. We all know about stories of possible collusion with regard to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. We all know about the disgraceful acts of state forces on Bloody Sunday. We all know people should be held to account. That's not the point here. What we're talking about is media figures pandering to militant republicans. Of course, every journalist has a right to an opinion, but it sickens me when I see people like O'Kelly (and just about everyone in RTE it seems) mouthing off about the behaviour of the Gardai and the PSNI. Most of the investigating police would have taken very serious risks while on the Omagh case. They've caught one man so far (I use the term "Man" very lightly - I'd have more respect for a dog). They used some dodgy interviewing techniques to bring him to court (a minor aspect of the investigation as it happened), BUT he was found guilty in that court. That's the bottom line. Because he was found guilty, I don't think the Gardai have a case to answer - the "dodgy" evidence wasn't even used.

The SBP (and RTE/Prime Time) should have been celebrating his sentencing - but instead they spent more time reviewing the actions of the police when they should have been praising them.

But of course there's always been the suspicion that RTE is a "safe haven" for republican-symphathising-scumbags...

gandalf

Originally posted by ReefBreak


You've gone on a needless troll Gandalf.

Yeah actually reading over it again I agree, the dangers of replying on 2 forums to different threads. I was on the Channel4 forum discussing "Sunday" the film they screened last night about Bloody Sunday. I guess I just carried on in that mode here.

Because he was found guilty, I don't think the Gardai have a case to answer - the "dodgy" evidence wasn't even used.

I have to disagree with you there. If he trys to appeal again (don't know if he can as he has been turned down once) he could use this as ammunition to say all the evidence was flawed. What about any other convictions in the future. This kind of problem needs to be sorted out in the Gardai and not swept under the carpet.

Gandalf.

antartica

'very little to worry about......?'


colm murphy is only one of five men being sued civilly by the families of the dead shoppers...the other four men are walking around enjoying too much free time outside of our well run Irish prisons

there are more rira members in portalaoise prison now than were provo prisoners

the peace process of the good friday agreement voted for by 98 per cent of we irish is constantly undermined by these small number of rira/cira who are constantly trying operations...more than 20 incidents since omagh

that these blood lust, ego trippers wouldn't have the insight to call it a day after the wicked slaughter of ordinary decent people is plenty to concern anybody [see photo above names images.jpg]

there is no need to list the many obscenities of the conflict since 1970...this thread is about this one issue...the british and the uda have their own dogs to call to heel...murphy and his manic, fanatic type draw oxygen from the attitudes of apparently objective voices such as the ones mentioned above

gardai and governments can only do so much...at the grass roots people like murphy must face rejection from every quarter...if you are reading this and you are in the louth armagh area and by immeasurable coincidence you have knowledge the gardai can use against these bombers - go for it and hang the consequences...go on

or if you are fabulously wealthy and its 2 am in manhatten, bahamas or wherever you enjoy that trust fund send a chunk of money to the very worthwhile law suit under way against murphy and the other men:

Royal Bank of Scotland, Fleet Street Branch, London EC4

Sort code: 16-00-11
Account number: 100 84 990
Account name: Omagh Victims Legal Trust


["life is beautiful - it is the duty of the generations to cleanse it of evil" - Trotsky]

Victor

Originally posted by ReefBreak
They used some dodgy interviewing techniques to bring him to court (a minor aspect of the investigation as it happened), BUT he was found guilty in that court. That's the bottom line. ........ the "dodgy" evidence wasn't even used.

I'm not aware of any dodgy interviewing techniques per se. The problem was with drawing up the statement(s) where it would appear the Gardai fabricated comments and then removed them. This brings the whole process into dispute. The "dodgy" evidence was used, under oath by the Gardai in question. If it wasn't for other evidence and in particular evidence implicating those two Gardai, the court would have been much less likely to convict Murphy. Those two Gardai gave Murphy the perfect excuse for an appeal. If he gets off, how will justice have been served?

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Because he was found guilty, I don't think the Gardai have a case to answer

Perhaps not the Garda as a whole, but the two interviewing officers in question do, as do the other pair of interviewing officers, the officer in charge of the evidence book and the supervising officer all need to answer question on how the evidence was fudged. Guildford Four, Birmingham Six and the like come to mind.

Originally posted by ReefBreak
The SBP (and RTE/Prime Time) should have been celebrating his sentencing - but instead they spent more time reviewing the actions of the police when they should have been praising them.

I don't know how the expression "celebrate" doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth.

online

I certainly celebrate the sentencing of Colm 'slab'murphy, as do the majority of Irish people

you should do something about your tone because if you are a moderator you certainly are not moderate

instead you appear to be a vain individual who likes more the sight of his own typing than debating key issues that will affect the quality of ife of children growing up in Ireland today

as the father of one dead little boy [see picture]who was standing beside the vauxhall cavalier, before it blew up, said after the judgement:

"I brought two ties with me today a dark one and a colourful one, depending on the 3 judge's finding"

he wore the colourful one,

gandalf

Well nice 1st post online (sarcasm).

As regarding my opinions etc. I do not have to hold them in check because I am a moderator here, I just make sure things do not get out of hand.

I disagreed with the original poster (probably you) especially about allowing the Gardai and other police forces to fudge their way through investigations leaving possibilities of people who have carried out mass murder getting off because of technicalities. I also welcome the conviction but its no use if that person can go to an appeal and get off because of shoddy investigative activity by the Gardai. If a journalist points this out then fair play to them.

Antartica did not answer one question, What happens if Colm Murphy is let off because of the Gardai taking shortcuts in their investigation? Answer that please ? Well?

So online or antartica or whatever your next nick is, I was not vain I was questioning your opinion on the reporting of the handling of the case, if you can't respect that then please don't bother posting here again.

Gandalf.