Genesis Europe... :)

Robbo

Now I remember from the past that this company looked like a shower of cowboys, buy in the Irish Times yesterday it mentioned them building a hefty server farm down in Cork. It also said that their high speed internet service is rolling out next month. Now I would normally be a *wee* bit sceptical here . but this is the Irish Times...

Anyone know any more?

Regards,
Rob

Paddy Shtapes

The Irish Time's also reputedly said "The beautiful bloodless revolution will happen any day now, our comrades are amassing as we speak, and soon the capitalist pigs shall be rolled back into the mud". Just a rumour like.

Gerry

feicin feic ****

Blade

Now listen I could go to the Irish Times tomorrow and hand them a press release from my company saying that we'll be giving everyone in Ireland free phone calls and they'll publish it, why? because they don't know we're bull$hitting.

Genises's super cool new patented internet connection is VDSL and witout access to the local loop they can't get anywhere near the local exchanges to install VSDL. April 1st next year they can.

Blade

dahamsta

Not if the Europe passes the EU directive ordering incumbent operators to unbundle the local loop by January 1. Then we could see basic DSL rollouts almost immediately, since the equipement for ADSL is already installed in some exchanges.

adam

Blade

No one knows if that will happen on January 1st, I know they are trying to push it for that date but the reason I didn't mention it is simply because NO ONE KNOWS, so therefor Genesis should not be claiming they'll have this by then, and anyway their talking about Nov and thats NOT going to happen. Also any ADSL equipment thats in the exchanges now belongs to Eircom, companies can't just come along and use their equipment, they have to install their own, all they have is the access to use the line from the exchange to your house.

Blade

spod

*ahem*.

Seemingly genesis don't actually use any form of xDSL but some proprietary patented technique.

Also, seemingly they've reduced bandwidth claims to 1mb always on for home customers. Still, not to be sniffed at.

Until something concrete actually happens, or mates in Genesis say something other then "No Comment" I wait with bated breath, having said that they do have some pretty smart people working for them so we could be pleasantly surprised.

dahamsta

Blade said:
so therefor Genesis should not be claiming they'll have this by then

Ok, the article is here:

http://scripts.ireland.com/technology/newsshowall.cfm?ID=1135

Now I'm sorry, but I don't see Genesis saying anything in that article. I see a lot of things like "it is understood", "is thought" and "may", but nothing like "a spokesperson said". Genesis said nothing, or at least that's what I'm given to understand. The Times released an article based on rumours and supposition. Those rumours may or may not be true, but until I see or hear a definitive statement from a representative of Genesis, I won't be making any judgements.

and anyway their talking about Nov and thats NOT going to happen

Whether that was said or not remains to be seen.

Also any ADSL equipment thats in the exchanges now belongs to Eircom, companies can't just come along and use their equipment, they have to install their own, all they have is the access to use the line from the exchange to your house.

Not necessarily true. Any policies regarding access to lines and equipment have yet to be formed or released to the public. That is between Eircon, the other operators, and the ODTR to decide. You might be right - it may mean that operators only have access to lines, and have to install their own equipment in their own cages.

But it could also be decided (or have already been decided - we just don't know) that other operators will be able to pay for access to already installed Eircon DSL equipment. Which, I might add, is only already installed in *some* exchanges.

I would suggest that you have a read off some of the docs on the ODTR website - www.odtr.ie - it really can be quite enlightening. Particularly press releases and documents 1999-2000.

And spod said:
seemingly they've reduced bandwidth claims to 1mb always on for home customers. Still, not to be sniffed at.

Not to be sniffed at indeed. Personally, I would even settle for 56k or 128k always-on at this stage, but of course 1-45mb would be the dogs ********. But, I haven't seen any reduction or enlargement of bandwidth claims on the part of Genesis. I haven't seen any claims on the part of Genesis since the ads early this year. Any.

Now I'm not the be-all and end-all of telecomms - far from it in fact - but I do keep an eye on things. Maybe it would be best for everyone to just sit back and wait and see what happens, and leave the speculation until we have solid facts, and not just idle speculation from a technology journalists who didn't substantiate his claims...

adam

gandalf

Ahh right so now the Irish Times is doing PR for companies other than Eircom

Smell the Coffee.

Gandalf.

Blade

That press release mentioned bugger all as you said, I hadn't even read that one, I was reffering to all their others ones before this and their claims to me and many others on the phone so wether or not it was in that press release it doesn't matter, fact is their bull$hitting, the 'techie' on the phone actually tried to tell me that I'd get 10 times the normal modem speed using my own modem? and this miracle would all happen by Nov 1st. The other thing for whoever was saying it wasn't xDSL is that after a lot of probing it was slipped to me that it was a special new technology called 'VDSL' of which last time I checked hardware wasn't even available for, but whatever way you look at it even if it was something called ABCD they still need access to the local loop because compression or a new data transfer protocol of 1 mbit cannot happen client side only no matter what box they put in your house and especially not from your 56 modem like that muppet tried to tell me. Either way whatever miracle box they put in your house has to talk to another one at your local exchange.

Blade

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited 23-10-2000).]

dahamsta

I was reffering to all their others ones before this

"all their other ones" is a bit of an overstatement Blade. They had some ads in the newspapers (which aren't press releases). Now don't get me wrong, I agree there's been some misinformation about them in the past, but this was when the technologies they were talking about were *very* new, and they were just starting into the trade - they didn't have the tech team they have now. It was premature. It was a mistake. But don't we all make mistakes?

And since those ads, there's been nothing from Genesis. No press releases. No advertisments. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's the way it is. And to be honest, I reckon that they're doing it because they don't want to release information until *they* know exactly what they can supply. As against our good friends Eircon, who are doing it because they're anti-competitive.

and their claims to me and many others on the phone so wether or not it was in that press release it doesn't matter, fact is their bull$hitting, the 'techie' on the phone actually tried to tell me that I'd get 10 times the normal modem speed using my own modem? and this miracle would all happen by Nov 1st.

Who told you that Blade? I know some of the techies in Genesis, and I *know* they wouldn't say something like that. Gimme a name off-list (boards.ie@iewebs.com) and I'll pass it on to someone who can check it out.

The other thing for whoever was saying it wasn't xDSL is that after a lot of probing it was slipped to me that it was a special new technology called 'VDSL' of which last time I checked hardware wasn't even available for, but whatever way you look at it even if it was something called ABCD they still need access to the local loop because compression or a new data transfer protocol of 1 mbit cannot happen client side only no matter what box they put in your house and especially not from your 56 modem like that muppet tried to tell me. Either way whatever miracle box they put in your house has to talk to another one at your local exchange.

Look, I *really* don't want to start a flame war here Blade, but you're pushing me into it. You've just demonstrated that you haven't researched this properly at all. There's no such thing as xDSL. Or rather, there is, but it's just a term used to refer collectively to DSL-variant technologies:

http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/x/xDSL.html

And vDSL isn't a special new technology either, it's just the next step after ADSL. It's still a relatively new technology (AFAIK the standards haven't even been finalised), but it's out there, being tested (and maybe even used). Neither does it need any "miracle boxes" - vDSL DSLAMs are out there, and if you did a quick search on Google, you would see all of this:

http://www.google.com/search?q=vdsl

What you *did* get right there was the fact that any ISP that wants to implement an xDSL solution will need access to the local loop. But until the local loop is unbundled, *no-one* knows what they'll be implementing. Maybe they'll be forced to use the ADSL DSLAMs already installed in the exchanges. Or maybe they'll get cages, and they'll be able to install their own hardware. The only people who could possibly know that information now are Eircon, the ODTR and the other operators. And even that remains to be seen...

It's like this Blade - there are problems. The local loop could and should be unbundled immediately - we shouldn't be forced to wait for EU directives on the matter. The telco's and ISP's should keep us informed about what's going on, because we have plans to make. And you're not the only one who wants a DSL-variant solution, I want it too. In fact, I *need* it, *now*, to effectively run my business. But posting stuff like this doesn't help matters. All you're doing is losing credibility.

adam


[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited 23-10-2000).]

Blitzkrieger

I've been adopting a wait-n-see approach all along but since they've been saying November all along and it's almost November now, I don't see how they are going to offer anything but a normal dial-up.

It does sound good though (depending on the price).

Blade

Now your really starting to pi$$ me off, your twisting my comments and your obviously sticking up for Genesis because you have pals in there but believe me this topic of conversation has been going on a long time now and plenty of people from this community who looked into them found out pretty damn quick that they were full of $hit, they even got slated in a PC magasine for it, and them trying to con people into signing people up direct debit for some cr@ppy celeron PC for what was it again 1,500 quid or something? With false promises of broadband connects if they did so?

It was a mistake. But don't we all make mistakes?

A mistake? No actually it was a blatent lie but at least your starting to admit something. Are you seriously trying to tell me that such a hugh company like Genesis made a 'mistake' and that they 'REALLY' thought they'd have access to the local loop by Nov 1st? And that none of the pencil heads in there actually even heard the ODTR's decision to unbundle April 1st next year when everyone else knew about it? Cop on, who the hell are you trying kid telling us it was a 'MISTAKE'?

And since those ads, there's been nothing from Genesis. No press releases. No advertisments. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's the way it is. And to be honest, I reckon that they're doing it because they don't want to release information until *they* know exactly what they can supply. As against our good friends Eircon, who are doing it because they're anti-competitive

Thats right they learnt to keep their gobs shut when they realised that they couldn't fool everyone out there with their bull$hit. Genesis tried to sign people up direct debit to 'secure' customers in advance hoping for an early unbundling of the local loop and a substantial market share already in their pockets. Now your trying to tell me that Eircom aren't talking $hite about ADSL because they're anti-competitive? No I think you'll find Eircom aren't talking about it because it's not ready to roll out yet and their not trying to fool people into signing up for something that doesn't exist unlike your buddies.

Who told you that Blade? I know some of the techies in Genesis, and I *know* they wouldn't say something like that. Gimme a name off-list (boards.ie@iewebs.com) and I'll pass it on to someone who can check it out

This was about 2 months ago, I didn't ask the man for his name because I knew damn well I wouldn't be talking to him again. There was a group of us on IRC at the time when we were all talking about it and loads of people rang up and got similar fairy tales.

Look, I *really* don't want to start a flame war here Blade, but you're pushing me into it. You've just demonstrated that you haven't researched this properly at all. There's no such thing as xDSL. Or rather, there is, but it's just a term used to refer collectively to DSL-variant technologies

Now this is where your pi$$ing me off trying to twist my comments, I know what xDSL is thats how I'm reffering to it, if you bothered to read up you'll find that spod said ' Seemingly genesis don't actually use any form of xDSL but some proprietary patented technique ' and in reply I said ' The other thing for whoever was saying it wasn't xDSL is '

And vDSL isn't a special new technology either, it's just the next step after ADSL. It's still a relatively new technology (AFAIK the standards haven't even been finalised), but it's out there, being tested (and maybe even used)

' vDSL isn't a special new technology ' ' It's still a relatively new technology' <- make up your mind please, it's a new technology and it was one of your pals who told me it was special, ' (AFAIK the standards haven't even been finalised) ' Thats exactly what I was saying, a Genesis employee told me that it was 'a special new technology called VDSL' and as I said the hardware is not ready for a roll out so what do you expect people to think when they say things like this?

Neither does it need any "miracle boxes"

And are you now trying to tell me it doesn't require a box in your house either? So will it work through my modem then like your pal said? Read propperly what I said ' Either way whatever miracle box they put in your house has to talk to another one at your local exchange ' Yes I think you'll find 'miracle box' is sarcasm for a start secondly for the system to work it will require compatible devices both client side and exchange side which means they need access to the local loop which officially currently stands to happen on April 1st 2001 so why were Genesis going on about this 2 months ago saying Nov 1st? Simple they were lying and I don't see why you can't admit it.

What you *did* get right there was the fact that any ISP that wants to implement an xDSL solution will need access to the local loop

Oh good God now your admitting it that Genesis did infact lie about Nov 1st as they knew full well that unbundling isn't officially due till next year.

It's like this Blade - there are problems. The local loop could and should be unbundled immediately - we shouldn't be forced to wait for EU directives on the matter. The telco's and ISP's should keep us informed about what's going on, because we have plans to make. And you're not the only one who wants a DSL-variant solution

Yes of course unbundling should happen ASAP to promote fair competition, but I don't think it's right that Genesis should have been telling lies in the hope that it would happen early so they'd get away with it.

Blade

[This message has been edited by Blade (edited 23-10-2000).]

Coyote

even at the best there is no way they could start to give out servies for at least one year, the local loop may be unbundling on April 1st 2001, but no company would even if they spend 500 mill, could bring even a small part of the needed network online. in under 6 months, they do not have access to the loop and so can not even get ready till they do, NTL beening a good point they have had the network for over 3 years and are now jsut starteding to look at giveing people access, it takes time to do things like this.
one other point they would need 100's of trained people to install it in peoples houses, BT will all it's engeners thinks the max they can do is 700 people a week, with 14K on the list for DSL there is going to be a long waiting time, and they have started selling it over there.
so all in all 12-18 months looks like the time for it.

Coyote

dahamsta

Like I said, I'm not going to start a flame war. Neither am I going to take part in one, or get into *****ing about how I phrase my comments. If you don't like Genesis, that's your perogative, and I'm not going to argue the matter with you any more.

The simple fact of the matter is that yes, I have a couple of contacts in there, and having talked to them, I know they know their stuff, and they're the kind of people I want to deal with. Chorus and Eircon are not, by any manner of means.

If you want to deal with companies that supply substandard products and services, that's your lookout. Enjoy the damp copper and dodgy cables...

adam

Blade

Good luck with Genesis

Enjoy the damp copper and dodgy cables...

What copper? what cable? I'll be on wireless MMDS while you'll be on your '10 speed' Genesis modem.

Blade

Blitzkrieger

like Santa once said *me throws modem out the window and procedes to hold breath*

MiCr0

in keeping with the tone of this thread,
macs are useless and microsoft write small quality programs

Shinji

Genesis - the heap of bullsh1te that would not die...

So their claims are scaled down from 45mbit to 1mbit, eh? Well, thats a bonus I suppose, maybe someone in there stopped smoking crack for long enough to realise that nobody was buying into their particular brand of BS.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger:
I don't see how they are going to offer anything but a normal dial-up.

Me forgot to mention - even current dial-ups could be improved. I've been getting **** service from esat suck no limits lately and wouldn't mind jumping ship at all. I doubt if they could be competetive if they offered 24/7 dial-up access but I bet they could undercut esat's price.