RTE need to overcome BCI blockage

cableskeptic

Irish Times article that says that RTE needs to seek a licence before it can go up on Sky.

smoke.me.a.kipper

i wasnt even aware that they had got the planning permission for the dish.

DMC

This is intriguing, and RTÉ should go to court over this one....

I mean, the BCI has no authority over RTÉ, and it has no control over what stations BSkyB carry.

So how can the BCI stop a station that it doesn't control putting a signal on a satellite owned by a company that it can't control?

I can't help, but laugh at this one.
Knowing the Irish legal system, it could take Ages for RTE to clear this hurdle!
Theres brains in that there BCI-I say theres brains there:D
I have mixed emotions towards any delay this would cause.
Sadness at not seeing RTE in a digital format sooner rather than later complete with EPG data.
But happiness that the BCI could get a dig at the Murdock Monopoly in this way.

mm

Charles Slane

I'm furious about this, but I guess it's just another example of how things work in this country (or don't, as the case may be).

It seems that nothing can get done without it being delayed forever by people who want to make their name by blocking progress (Football stadium, Millennium Spire, Luas, Port Tunnel, Spencer Dock ... and these are just Dublin projects .. the list goes on and on ...). While many people may not be in favour of some these projects, I'm using them as examples of how nothing new gets done in this country without a 10 year legal battle.

I really hope that RTE take on the BCI over this and give the new bully on the block the bloody nose it deserves.

At this rate Ireland will never have a digital platform of any kind.

Mountjoy Mugger

Typical!

I'm just after sending a digital missive to them!

Why on earth are you blocking RTE broadcasting on Sky Digital. You claim that they need a licence for this stinks to the high heavens. You are acting like bullies!

Are you not prepared to see TV, and especially digital, advance at all in this God-forsaken country? Are you just trying to make a name for yourselves, and block progress as so many others have done in the past? Are you so stuck in the past that you can't see the future?????


Jeeze - get a bloody life, I hope RTE really stick it to you!!!!!!!!!!!


With thanks to Charles for some of the inspiration

I am going to try to be the Devil's advocate here(whilst not being in favour of a delay in getting RTE on any Digital platform)

It would not surprise me if the BCI were getting a lot of canvassing from various interested parties regarding the lack of Irish regulation on Sky.
No elected official/Body or institution of this State has any control over the output on Sky.
It contributes nothing in terms of levies or taxes to the State, unlike the cable companies.
It's output is probably the more important point, in that BCI has no control.
Except now The BCI may have found a loophole.
If this is a loophole that prevents RTE going onto Sky( untill such time as RTE succeed in overturning it after various lenghty appeals ) then it can only help NTL digital( have you noticed that they are doing their ad campaign again-fishy or what?? ) and of course any other players in the market.
mm

ShaneOC

Aren't we all European? :rolleyes:

It contributes nothing in terms of levies or taxes to the State, unlike the cable companies.

It just contributes reliable quality television signals to all the state, unlike the cable companies.

They really are clutching at straws now.

cableskeptic

I agree with you mm except the bit about it being a 'loophole'.

Hardly a loophole when it is in the Broadcasting Act of 2001? How did RTE miss this section of the Act (not 38 as stated in the Irish Times?). (most important items in bold)

Section 36 states:

Satellite content contracts.
36.—(1) A person who is under the jurisdiction of the State
(within the meaning of the Council Directive) shall not supply a compilation of programme material for the purpose of its being transmitted as a broadcasting service (whether for reception in the State or elsewhere) by means of a satellite device otherwise than under and in accordance with a satellite content contract.
(2) The Commission may enter into a contract with a person
whereby that other person may supply a compilation of programme material for the purposes referred to in subsection (1), and such a contract shall, without prejudice to subsection (4), be known as a ‘‘provision of content (satellite) contract’’ and is in this Act referred to as a ‘‘satellite content contract’’.
(3) A satellite content contract shall include the same kind of con-ditions as subsections (4) and (5) of section 12 provide that a digital content contract shall include.
(4) The Commission may divide the contracts it may enter into
under this section into different classes by reference to the different conditions which, in pursuance of its powers under this Act, it may attach to the contracts and may style each such class of contract by the addition of such distinguishing words as it considers appropriate to the name by which subsection (2) provides a contract under thissection shall be known.
(5) The Commission may, before it enters into a satellite content contract with a person, require that person to pay a fee to it of such amount as it considers appropriate; if that person fails to pay that fee to the Commission, the Commission shall not enter into the con-tract with him or her.
(6) The fee referred to in subsection (5) is in addition to any fee
the Commission may charge under section 56 in respect of an appli-cation by the person concerned for a satellite content contract.
(7) The amount of any fee paid to the Commission under subsec-tion (5) may be used by it for the purpose of defraying the expenses incurred by it in performing its functions generally.

Tony

I wonder why they never needed a licience for Tara?

Regards Tony

DMC

and RTÉ Radio 1 is already up there.....

Charles Slane

Or for RTE Radio1 for that matter. The whole thing stinks of opportunism by the BCI.

Meanwhile I received this reply this afternoon in answer to an e-mail I sent to RTE a few days ago asking when testing was likely to begin -

"Dear Charles
As we have not yet received a licence and have just been granted planning permission for our ground station, we have no tests scheduled but the plan is still to be on air in April, 2002.

Regards
Tom McCarthy
Head of Viewer Information & Technical Publicity"

Interesting that this is the first mention of a licence in any reply from RTE so far, and yet the plan is still to be on air in April.

Fingers crossed.

Well from the 2001 legislation above,RTE were entitled to have their radio service on Sky prior to the 2001 legislation being enacted.
Have they got a licence to be broadcasting Radio one on Sky digital at present??? If not then clearly they already are breaking the law.They fought for so long against the Radio pirates and now they are one themselves??:D

In answer to Tony: Although Tara is based in London (??),its programmes and uplink originates in Donnybrook-possibly being London based and "buying" it's programmes from RTE(irrespesptive of RTE's ownership),this might exemt it from a licene scenario-I don't know-But if it doesn't , do we have RTE the TV Pirate aswell??:D

Cableskeptic: Clearly from your post above This is the law and not a loophole-I used that term loosely.

Charles slane: I find the reference to the License issue in RTE's reply to you interesting-It hadn't been mentioned at the time of the big announcement at the end of November.
This suggests it has only recently been pointed out to them and underlines the probability that a lot of behind the scenes lobbying has been going on since November.

Of course RTE still plan to be on Sky digital by April.
But crucially now and copperfastened by the 2001 broadcasting act, this is now out of RTE's hands and essentially in the gift of the BCI.
And you know how long they take to hand out licenses...
Worst case scenario April 2003/4!!!!!!!
mm

DMC

Ask the good folk in Phantom FM how hard it is to get a licence from the IRTC/BCI !

But it seems from Charles' post, that RTÉ may have allowed for this. And they are optimistic that April is still fine.
So should we.

The only thing that could stop RTÉ is excess posturing to and from the BCI.

Charles Slane

Phantom FM's repeated failure to get a licence from the IRTC/BCI would be funny if it wasn't so sad. It's farcical. We're strangled by regulation in Ireland.

In my not so humble opinion, it's like so many things in this country, if you want to get anywhere you have to be in the pockets of big business and be willing to hand out the money therein to all the politicians and state sponsored bodies with even a passing interest in your enterprise.

So now it's sit back and wait time.

As usual the plain people of Ireland are kept in the dark, and their opinions are completely ignored.

Hey !! Let's form a political party !! I'll bring the balloons !!

Agreed Damo,
But if Sky's competitors have pulled this card out of the hat,ie: if the license issue arising is as a result of their lobbying the BCI to have the law implimented, then RTE and Sky have a problem.
This is the great unknown.
It was mentioned over on the dig terr. forum by another poster that SCCTV have got a digital license for their area(Is that the case??).
If so it was got even after strong objections on potential interference grounds by Sky.
Clearly there would appear to be a mindset developing within BCI,that favours domestic outfits(that will pay levies etc to BCI) over and above the foreign operator ie Sky.
mm

cableskeptic

Originally posted by madman
It was mentioned over on the dig terr. forum by another poster that SCCTV have got a digital license for their area(Is that the case??).
If so it was got even after strong objections on potential interference grounds by Sky.

No AFAIK SCCTV have not been issued a licence yet.

Latest status according to the ODTR:

The ODTR today (Friday 21st December 2001) announced its intention to seek expressions of interest in providing digital television services on a regional or local basis from prospective licensees at 12GHz and potential operators of single mulitiplex services in the UHF band. The ODTR however believes that licences for these services should only be offered if they do not constrain the spectrum needed for the development of National DTT

In August this year the ODTR consulted on Licensing Regional or locally based DTT services. Eighteen responses were received from telecommunications, broadcast, deflector, satellite operators and other interested parties following the public consultation. A number of respondents indicated that they might be interested in providing digital television services on a regional or local basis and the Regulator will shortly invite them to provide more detail of their interest.

The Director considers that in the context of the ongoing need to provide UHF spectrum for four national analogue television channels and until the planning of the spectrum needs for the national digital terrestrial television service is complete, it would not be possible to guarantee the availability of UHF spectrum for local or regional multifrequency services long term. She has therefore decided that the licensing of multiple frequency regional and local DTT operators should not be considered at this time..

Lennoxschips

As far as I know RTE already have permission to broadcast in Ireland, as they already do, all over the country. Is the BCI now saying that they need a seperate licence to broadcast on satellite?

As far as I know there is an EU broadcasting law that stipulates that satellite broadcasts, crossing borders as they do, can not be controlled by domestic governments.

The land of red tape.

Genghis

I am absolutely baffled. it would seem that no person or body can broadcast from Ireland to Ireland on satellite without receiveing a licence. Why ever not?

I can understand restricting terrestrial TV, and restricting FM radio (but not to the limited extent it is practiced in Ireland) since the bandwidths available are naturally scarce.

However, Satellite is infinite. There is no scarcity! Why have any restrictions?

The situation becomes ludicrous - any station from outside the state can freely broadcast any material to Irish citizens freely and without restriction, but an Irish company must seek a licence. The result is a national disgrace - I know many people (and there are probably 10s of 1000s of them) who currently do not receive ANY Irish programming (i.e. they only have Sky). What sense does that make?

I'm surprised there isn't a restriction on Internet Broadcasting - although, I suppose this may yet happen.

I reckon that is the reason Tara was pulled from Irish screens - the ultimate farce.

Last thought - with possibly 100,000 licence payers 'not legally entitled' to receive RTE services, surely there is no rational basis for refusing a licence?

Tony

As I recall radio Limerick broadcast on satellite without a licience. I remember when satellite first arrived in Ireland the then P & T placed an as in the newspaper claiming that a licience was required from them for posession of satellite equipment, it quickly disappeared without a trace.

Regards Tony

Originally posted by Lennoxchips:

Is the BCI now saying that they need a seperate licence to broadcast on satellite?

nope-the democratically elected government are,by enacting the 2001 broadcasting legislation.

Originally posted by Genghis:

The situation becomes ludicrous - any station from outside the state can freely broadcast any material to Irish citizens freely and without restriction, but an Irish company must seek a licence. The result is a national disgrace - I know many people (and there are probably 10s of 1000s of them) who currently do not receive ANY Irish programming (i.e. they only have Sky). What sense does that make?

IMHO it makes little sense at all.
However,legislation like this was drafted probably to promote or at least in the short term assist Irish based and Irish regulated platforms. The theory being, that the platform with the Irish channels is the one with the advantage over the non Irish and unregulated rival who has to wait for RTE to be given a license to be carried by it.

My theory of course falls if RTE are given the license by the BCI in time for April.

I have a hunch though that if RTE's application is speeded up, then others will cry foul!
And then the fun and games start-Courtroom's ahoy!
mm

ShaneOC

While all this is going on, it is of course the consumer who is being punished by the lack of Irish channels on Sky.

Tough one to argu shane, when RTE are free to air mstly with just rabbit ears.
Unless you are in a non tv3 area.
But I get your point.
mm

ShaneOC

True most of us can pick up RTE with an aerial. Some on these boards though have a very poor reception (I think Mossy Monk in Dungarvan was complaining about it).

It's all down to the aerial used-90% of the country would be fine.

The way I look at it,although I would like to see RTE/TV3 on SD,
the legislation was formed to protect Irish outfits.
Legally Governments here can do that without too much EU objection.

Just take VRT on Car's as one example-A universally hated invention,yet its been here for years now and despite lobbying by the general public/trade it's still there.
mm

Genghis

If you wanted to set up a station targetted at an Irish audience, what would you do in the current situation. Take your chances with getting a licence through BCI, or contract out a station from another European country.

The concept of the legislation may well have been protectionist, but all it does is force broadcasting outside the state. The legislation makes no sense in the context of European Broadcasting.

I agree 100% Genghis.
It is yet another Irish solution to an Irish problem.
If I'm prepared to wait six months for a new car-I'll buy it in France,take a month off, and drive it around France,pay the garage a few Euro in REnt and they will hold it for me in the garage there.
Then I'll drive it back as second hand and save thousands.
Crazy.

The Brains that thought up these sections of the broadcasting act either by default or otherwise were very clever and Knew what they were doing!

In 2001 it was obvious to the Govt and ODTR and the minister that something like this section of the broadcasting act would be needed to compensate for the sucess of Sky-thats my opinion.

I'm not worried about it as my own private opinion would be in favour of competition whether brought about by fair or fowl means, particullarilly if its Irish based competion.

IMHO Murdock isn't slow to protect his interests and if our Govt planned this, for these reasons-well and good.
It's short term pain for long term gain in all our pockets.
mm

Genghis

Originally posted by madman
If I'm prepared to wait six months for a new car-I'll buy it in France,take a month off, and drive it around France,pay the garage a few Euro in REnt and they will hold it for me in the garage there.
Then I'll drive it back as second hand and save thousands.
Crazy.

Apologies for going OT for a moment. Would that work madman? What savings could you make? Must be the cute hoor in me, i just love finding ways around regulations - especially grotesque examples as VRT.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by ShaneOC
(I think Mossy Monk in Dungarvan was complaining about it).

indeed i was but all is good now since i can receive all 4 terrestrials on the UHF band. but i have seen reception elsewhere in this country and to say it is diabollical is an understatement. if RTÉ going onto Sky is delayed i will be very unhappy by it. i am really looking forward to EPG data, which for one will give me some idea of when something is on. i keep missing stuff

Lennoxschips

Of course the BCI couldn't give a sh it, because the BCI is in Dublin, and in Dublin terrestrial reception is grand and screw everyone else.