An idea for Martin and the IOFFL crew!

aidan_dunne

A quick question and idea for Martin and the IOFFL gang.

I know that you are currently trying to arrange a meeting with UTV Internet (and good luck to you) but seeing that Eircom are now under new management and have a new CEO (Phillip Nolan, I think the guy's name is) how about trying to arrange a meeting with this guy and put your case to them?

I know you're up to your eyeballs with stuff, Martin, and it's probably not a workable idea but it would be interesting to get Mr. Nolan and Valentia's view on the current desperate situation regarding broadband and flat-rate internet in this country and also to find out if the new management are planning to soften Eircom's attitude and back down a bit and offer us something worthwhile. I'm sure things probably haven't changed and Eircom won't change until they are legally forced to but it might be good to feel things out and see what Mr. Nolan's views are. What do you think yourself?

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
A quick question and idea ...

Good idea, Aidan.

I'm working on a list of points to discuss with Eircom when we meet the, hopefully at end of this month.

Will certainly ask them to include someone from the new management.

Martin

aidan_dunne

Well, I'll wish you good luck because, seeing as this is Eircom you're dealing with, I think you're going to need it! lol.

I can't wait to see what they've got to say for themselves. Also, one other thing. Why not bring up the point Pat Galvin raised at the seminar, how he saw no reason why there couldn't have been flat-rate access by Christmas and how Christmas and the New Year has come and gone and there still isn't a flat-rate or FRIACO offering from Eircom. I'd love to see them blush at that point, i.e. another promise from Eircom gone unfullfilled! lol.

Lemming

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Well, I'll wish you good luck because, seeing as this is Eircom you're dealing with, I think you're going to need it! lol.

Same from me on that score!

Why not bring up the point Pat Galvin raised at the seminar, how he saw no reason why there couldn't have been flat-rate access by Christmas and how Christmas and the New Year has come and gone and there still isn't a flat-rate or FRIACO offering from Eircom. I'd love to see them blush at that point, i.e. another promise from Eircom gone unfullfilled!

Well .. wasn't Pat Galvin's comment, just that. A personal comment , rather than a direct official comment from the company itself??

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by Lemming


Well .. wasn't Pat Galvin's comment, just that. A personal comment , rather than a direct official comment from the company itself??

Unfortunately Lemming, I'm afraid you're correct. It was just a personal comment and not an indication of what the company as a whole believed. But, nevertheless, it would be interesting to throw this statement back at Eircom and see their reaction. Actually, I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see Pat Galvin squirm if Martin met up with him again and threw this back at him. I'd just love to see the embarrased look on his face! lol.

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Why not bring up the point Pat Galvin raised at the seminar, how he saw no reason why there couldn't have been flat-rate access by Christmas

That one is alreday on the list

Martin

Fergus

as far as I recall, Galvin said FRIACO by Christmas, if it was 'commercially viable'. Eircom can forever claim things they don't want to do are not 'commercially viable' and it is almost impossible to prove otherwise. Of course, if they had competition, it wouldn't matter.

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by Fergus
as far as I recall, Galvin said FRIACO by Christmas, if it was 'commercially viable'.

You're right, Fergus, he did hedge his comments which was no more than we would expect.

I think it's fair for us to ask, however, exactly why it has not taken place and when or if it is likely to be implemented.

FRIACO is basically a case of Eircom agreeing a price with Esat and any other interested ISP's.

I'm just worried that it has got sidelined in the arguments about pricing for LLU and Broadband.

Martin

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Just listened to "Soula Evans" bit from the seminar on mp3.
There are "qualifications" on statements a dime a dozen:(

"Commercially Viable"[just Imagine it said in a Greek Accent) is the catchword...i.e- NEVER !!

aidan_dunne

We've all heard Eircom use this excuse about this and that not being "commercially viable" for far too long. This whole commercially viable thing is just Eircom's way of saying "We will offer FRIACO when either hell freezes over or we are legally obliged by a court ruling to offer it."

BT spouted exactly the same stuff about flat-rate not being commercially viable for years as well. It was only when they were forced to offer it by OFTEL that they decided it was then suddenly, magically "viable" and offered it, more out of fear of legal action and being fined millions than anything else. If I hear Eircom say FRIACO isn't commercially viable one more time I won't be held responsible for my actions! lol.

By the way, I came across an interesting article in an issue of PC Advisor from late last year when I was going through some of my old magazines last night. It dealt with the whole area of unmetered access and contained some interesting points and facts that I think Martin could possible bring forward to Eircom. If you want, Martin, I'll scan it and e-mail it to you. Just say so if you want it.

pete

I know this has been asked before, but I'm none the wiser - if it was possible for the Department of Post & Telegraphs / Telecom Eireann to offer flat rate local telephone calls (ie the bill payer was charged per call and not for the duration of the call) up until the late 1980's, then why can't anyone do it now, even if just for data?

I'm not asking "why won't", mind - I'm asking "why can't" - was there some political, technical or regulatory reason for the change?

Or am I right in assuming that "not commercially viable" is a slightly less accurate reason than "not maximising profits"?

murcielago

local call adlib

Up to the time of the change to charging per time unit P&T/TE had a monopoly on both domestic and international calls. Then with deregulation of international calls P&T/TE competitors entered that market forcing down the P&T/TE tariffs for international calls. The resulting negative change in revenue minus expenditure had to be made good somehow. Instead of introducing cost reducing items such as labour the national telecommunications provider exploited the home market and the local call market in particular in order to make good the losses. It is alleged that anticipated heavy usage of data transmissions using local numbers was a factor. I don't know if P&T/TE had that much cop on or foresight at that time. There is no doubt that just as TE got caught napping in the case of international calls that the same is happening with domestic calls. Valentia, managed by business people can be expected to deal with the situation not from any consideration for consumers/customers but for their own longer term protection.

pete

good point

My recollection is that the flat rate local calls disappeared way before this foreign concept called "competition" entered the irish telecomms market, but i may be wrong.

It'd be interesting to see just how much money (if any) was being lost on the flat rate local calls by P&T at the time, or if they were in fact still breaking even.

pete

Hmm appears it wasn't as long ago as i thought - the first mention of telecom eireann time-limiting local calls appears to be in The Telecommunications Scheme, 1992, aka S.I. 19/1992, which you can read here.


[I'm basing this on the fact that in The Telecommunications Scheme, 1990, aka
S.I. 91/1990 (here) there's no table of time periods for local calls]

edit: oh and S.I.=Statutory Instrument, which afaik is a form of legislation which does not require voting on in the Dáil to become binding - the relevant Minister just has to sign it to Make It So. I think. Might be wrong, like. Been known to happen.

murcielago

Statutory Instrument, which afaik is a form of legislation which does not require voting on in the Dáil to become binding - the relevant Minister just has to sign it to Make It So

That is correct but subject to 2 safeguards.

1. There has to be enabling legislation. For example the Communications Bill (title?) if enacted will give the minister authority to make certain regulations. So any regulation made by the minister must conform strictly to what he is allowed to do by the relevant enabling Act.

2. The M must lay the order in the Dail Library. There is some provision (I can't recall exactly) for TDs to do something about it.


About deregulation the following dates are pertinent.

1) January 1977; In the USA the Carter Administration took charge. Jimmy Carter was elected on a platform of consumerism & deregulation.

2. Peter Suderland appointed EU Commissioner responsible for competition. PS was appointed by his friend GF who was Taoiseach for a few monnths in '82 and again in '83 - 87. PS was the driving force behind deregulation in Europe.

3. 1984; AT&T divestification in USA.

NeilF

It's good to see Eircom still talking to us

I'd be interested to know what criteria they use in deciding whether something is "Commercially Viable" or not. I suspect their criteria is closely related to the theory of the flying pig but it would be interesting to hear it none the less

As I see it we've got 1300+ supporters who are willing to pay for a serious Internet product (FRIACO) that probably involves nothing more than reconfiguring some hardware/software and no advertising/marketing because as soon as we hear a whisper here we'll all be on the phone to Eircom to get it. If they could get it right it could be the best piece of PR for them since I can't remember.

How un-commercially viable is it? What research have they done on it? What do their figures say.