thinking of importing a gamecube

RasTa

ya can import a gamecube for 220 quid,it says it'll play usa and japan games,but is there any way to get it to play euro games??
they also have tha panasonic q thing for 400 quid
http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_list.php?category=77&

rymus

could yah chip it? get a chip from the US aswell and lash it in.. too much trouble really.. why dont u just wait a while for the EU launch?

][Spoof Jesus][

You could definitely chip it...websites like http://www.mod-chip.com do it very well...you obviously have to put the chip in yourself but if u know a proper electrician then its not a problem.

I have a few suggestions...why the gamecube?...I would have thought that (if you dont already have one) you should get a PS2 due to the range of titles available and the fact that the modchip is very good allowing you to:
(A): run multi region DVD's
(B): allows you to record from the PS2 to VCR
(C): very cheap games...£5 each from my supplier...

I know the gamecube will be massive but i wouldnt buy one until this time next year...I suggest having a look at that mod chip website to see if they will support GC mod chips before march...if yes then by all means get one...as for the games to match the chip there is only one website worth going to...i am not allowed to post it up here but if you want the name then mail me at dummycrusher@hotmail.com...all I can say is its THE best backup service on the net...and believe me it has the best value for money...like 60 PS2 games for $150...as I said if u want it just mail and ask...

RasTa

yea 220 is cheap for a machine,tha doesnt have a release date over here yet,considering a new ps2 is 260 quid

hudson806

Originally posted by RasTa
yea 220 is cheap for a machine,tha doesnt have a release date over here yet,considering a new ps2 is 260 quid

Its not a bad price, but shipping is USD60 extra, and you'll almost certainly be hit for a further EUR50 or so by customs

The Cube almost definitely won't be moddable to play European games - we use the PAL television system here which is very different to the NTSC system used in Japan and the US. It is unlikely that the Japanese version of the Cube includes the ability to be modded for PAL output (the N64 and SNES couldn't, AFAIK). Remember too that you currently can't get an RGB output from the GC, so your TV needs to be pure NTSC compatible (its not always easy to tell).

If you do decide to go ahead with it, you can get hold of pretty cheap US games for it at:

http://www.dvdboxoffice.com

You could definitely chip it...websites like http://www.mod-chip.com do it very well...

They don't do Gamecube mods, which presumably is what s/he was asking about (The subject was after all, 'Thinking of importing a Gamecube')

Shinji

The GameCube is very easily chipped to play USA/JPN games - it's a matter of a single wire across the contacts on the board.

Regarding European games, nobody actually knows what format these will take and no European game discs exist as yet, therefore it's unknown what will be involved in chipping a GameCube to work with them.

The very earliest that anyone will know what the story is with chipping US/JP machines to work with European games is early March.

hudson806

Originally posted by Shinji
The GameCube is very easily chipped to play USA/JPN games - it's a matter of a single wire across the contacts on the board.

Its probably worth adding that Lik-sang perform this modification on GCs before they ship them

it's unknown what will be involved in chipping a GameCube to work with them.

True, but on the balance of evidence, it would be unwise to buy a Jap GC with the intention of modding it - getting around territorial lockout is easy; making NTSC kit ouput PAL is hard. (Actually, I can't remember the last NTSC console that was moddable to output PAL: was it really the Sega Genesis?)

Of course, whether you really need the ability to play European games is another question...

BLITZ_Molloy

I thought most TV's sold in the last ten years also suport NTSC. I think my Triniton does...

hudson806

Originally posted by BLITZ_Molloy
I thought most TV's sold in the last ten years also suport NTSC. I think my Triniton does...

Actually, the ability to display pure NTSC is rarer than you would think - many so-called 'NTSC-compatible' TVs only support NTSC4.43, also known as PAL60, a kind of cross between NTSC and PAL, where the PAL colour system is used instead of the NTSC colour system.

This makes almost no difference to most people: VHS players invariably output NTSC tapes as PAL60, and the majority of DVD players can output PAL60 on NTSC discs (ans usually do by default)

Pure NTSC support in TVs is common, but not guaranteed: almost all Toshibas support it, all Loewes, almost all Panasonics, most Sonys.

This is why getting hold of an RGB output is useful - as long as the TV supports RGB and PAL60, it will work. But (getting back to the point a little), GC doesn't have an RGB output, presumably to deter importers.

(I know, I know, its off-topic):rolleyes:

Shinji

The GameCube *does* have RGB output. In fact it has a nice big Digital Out socket on the back which lets you output everything from VGA to HDTV, and RGB could be fed off that very easily indeed. There are no first-party cables to do this yet, however.

Most decent (modern) European TVs will handle the signal from a US console in RGB. A hell of a lot of them will handle it in composite or SVideo as well.

You *cannot* output PAL from NTSC hardware as this requires additional hardware. The Genesis, iirc, had both NTSC and PAL hardware onboard, for some obscure reason (probably a manufacturing costs thing).

hudson806

Originally posted by Shinji
The GameCube *does* have RGB output. In fact it has a nice big Digital Out socket on the back which lets you output everything from VGA to HDTV, and RGB could be fed off that very easily indeed. There are no first-party cables to do this yet, however.

Actually, it doesn't. Nintendo disabled it. You can buy a 3rd party cable, but you still need an RGB mod (which nobody seems to have come up with yet)

Look here:
http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.php?category=76&products_id=220&

Try searching for 'gamecube rgb' on google groups. Lots of people (mostly importers) are really angry about this decision.

Re: the digital out: It only does DVI and interlaced Component out (mainly because they are the two most popular means of connection in Japan). It will probably do non-interlaced Component as well as the GC is actually 480p native, making it pretty easy.

I have a hunch that RGB isn't going to follow: to date there's been no VGA(the VGA boxes you see advertised aren't true VGA) and no RGB. That leads me to believe that there's no component->RGB transcoding capability in the console at all (VGA is just non-interlaced RGB).

Essentially, Nintendo have bet on their customers wanting to use either Component (+Progressive Scan) (aka HDTV) or DVI for their plasma screens and PC monitors.

As these are the two standards for high quality display, it make RGB and VGA somewhat redudant, except in Europe where, for historical reasons, we're been stranded with the stupid, useless, badly conceived standard.

OTOH, in Japan and the US, this is perfect: They never cared about RGB anyway (as they had Component) and going without VGA is a small price to pay when DVI is available.

I really hope I'm wrong about this though - I already use my TV's component input for DVDs and I only have one DVI input on my monitor and don't want the hassle of changing cables all the time.

Shinji

Now hang on a moment. You've got a point about some things, but you're way off the mark in other areas.

Nintendo hasn't "disabled" RGB as such, it just doesn't exist on the analogue output port. As far as I can gather from poking at the hardware, the company expects anyone with hardware capable of taking high quality signals to do so through the Digital output port instead (buying an expensive cable and making Ninty some more money in the process, ho hum).

Component is indeed the standard they'll expect people to use in the States, since RGB doesn't exist there. God knows why - it's technically a better standard (Component is a bizarre YUV bodge and basically boils down to SVideo over a different connector with some weirdo encoding). The Japanese tend to use RGB and Component interchangeably, which is useful, although Component has been taking precedence recently due to the fact that the Japanese hardware market is more closely tied to the US than to Europe.

To suggest that DVI is a major standard in Japan is a bit off the wall though. It's not got significantly more market over there than it does over here, frankly - it's a great standard, but it's still in its infancy and only available on high-end gear.

Getting RGB from the digital port won't be a matter of connecting up wires, you'll need some little DACs or something of that description - but it'll almost certainly be possible. If it outputs DVI and/or progressive scan type stuff you can almost certainly get RGB if you really, really want. (Of course since it does perfectly good SVideo only the truly hardcore will care.) Of course Ninty haven't released full specs for the digital port, and there's no official Ninty RGB lead because, er, the console isn't out in the main territory that USES RGB....

I also take issue with this:

we're been stranded with the stupid, useless, badly conceived standard

DVI has as much penetration here as it does anywhere else - ie sod all, but growing. VGA is still the dominant standard for high-resolution displays the world over.

RGB is a better standard that Component. Not by much in terms of picture quality, but in terms of what equipment outputs in the real world and the number of stages required to modulate that for output, it's a better standard.

SVideo is common the world over. Pretty much all European equipment has this built-in.

And if you want to really get back to basics, PAL is a far, far superior video standard to NTSC, which is one of the most badly thought out, poor quality kludges of all time...

hudson806

Originally posted by Shinji
Now hang on a moment. You've got a point about some things, but you're way off the mark in other areas.

Nintendo hasn't "disabled" RGB as such, it just doesn't exist on the analogue output port.

Which is what I was saying, if you read the post - fair enough, though 'disabled ' wasn't the ideal word, but from reading my post you'd know what I meant.

As far as I can gather from poking at the hardware, the company expects anyone with hardware capable of taking high quality signals to do so through the Digital output port instead (buying an expensive cable and making Ninty some more money in the process, ho hum).

Yeah. And what I said is that there doesn't appear to be an RGB(interlaced or non-interlaced) output on that digital interface, only YUV or DVI, presumably to save money. And, as I said back then, this is only a hunch and I'd like to be proved wrong, so I can plug it into my setup easily...

Component is indeed the standard they'll expect people to use in the States, since RGB doesn't exist there. God knows why

The reason everyone uses component elsewhere is that its HDTV ready: the standard allows everything up to 1080i HDTV over 3 wires. And its actually written up as a standard [right now - you can go out and buy this kit today (if you live somewhere else... )

On the other hand to manage this with RGB you need a darned VGA input on the set, and something to convert from component to RGB...

. The Japanese tend to use RGB and Component interchangeably, which is useful, although Component has been taking precedence recently due to the fact that the Japanese hardware market is more closely tied to the US than to Europe.

Its gaining ground because its the easiest way to hook up to HDTV. Basically no other reason.

To suggest that DVI is a major standard in Japan is a bit off the wall though. It's not got significantly more market over there than it does over here, frankly - it's a great standard, but it's still in its infancy and only available on high-end gear.

Err, yeah, thats what I said: "use either Component (+Progressive Scan) (aka HDTV) or DVI for their plasma screens and PC monitors. ". I think Plasma screens are still high-end in Japan (and if they aren't, I'm moving )

Getting RGB from the digital port won't be a matter of connecting up wires, you'll need some little DACs or something of that description

Err, yeah, that's what I said "That leads me to believe that there's no component->RGB transcoding capability in the console at all"

- but it'll almost certainly be possible. If it outputs DVI and/or progressive scan type stuff you can almost certainly get RGB if you really, really want.

Err, yeah, using a Component-:RGB transcoder. Like I said. And does that not back off a little from your earlier comment "The GameCube *does* have RGB output"?

and there's no official Ninty RGB lead because, er, the console isn't out in the main territory that USES RGB....

Like I said, I just have a hunch that it won't be that simple - the lack of a VGA box is what makes me suspicious - no RGB-based outputs at all yet, and RGB-VGA would be useful in both the US and Japan.

RGB is a better standard that Component. Not by much in terms of picture quality, but in terms of what equipment outputs in the real world and the number of stages required to modulate that for output, it's a better standard.

Yep, techically, its a better standard. But its critically underdeveloped for use in high-end consumer devices, unlike component, which just goes from strength to strength in that field(partially because they sorted out the copy-prevention 'problem' with the powers that be). On the other hand RGB seems content to be a middle of the line Interlaced output, and a PC monitor standard.

As an example:

To get progressive scan DVD video on a European TV you have to buy a progressive scan DVD player /w component outputs, buy an component ->RGB VGA transcoder and hope to god your TV has a VGA input.

To get Progressive Scan in the US: Buy Component Progressive Scan DVD and TV. Enjoy. Never have to hear about RGB...

So in short, I would say:
1./Low end: S-video is the best
2./Mid-range: RGB is very versatile
3./High-end: Component or DVI.

And if you want to really get back to basics, PAL is a far, far superior video standard to NTSC, which is one of the most badly thought out, poor quality kludges of all time...

I 100% agree, and it affects people with mid-range equipment (ie RGB-based). At the high end (ie Component Progressive Scan), it matters not a jot.

All that said though, I have the strange feeling that we have been agreeing on almost everything since the start (albeit in the most argumentative manner possible ).

Shinji

I have the strange feeling that we have been agreeing on almost everything since the start (albeit in the most argumentative manner possible ).

Yes, we do appear to have been arguing semantics rather than actual technical issues. Oh well. I'm good at the whole argumentative thing, or so people tell me

Basic point at the end of the day is that you probably can get RGB out of a Cube if you want it. You will need to do cunning stuff to do so, but it's possible - unlike, say, the European N64, which actually lacked vital signal components required to do RGB, and the best you could do was transcode SVid (which of course is a fundamentally pointless exercise, quality-wise...).

hudson806

Originally posted by Shinji
Basic point at the end of the day is that you probably can get RGB out of a Cube if you want it. You will need to do cunning stuff to do so

I hope it will be possible to get native RGB out of it: the lack of RGB is the only thing that's stopping me buying a GC at the moment, since I can't easily hook it up to anything without it.. Buying another Component->VGA transcoder is not an option in my mind. Can't say I have high hopes though...

Since you obviously own one (and to bring things back on topic a little ), how are you finding the games? I don't have a whole lot of time to play games so I only really go for triple-A titles (which left me spoiled for choice with my Dreamcast, I can tell you...;)). I'm getting the feeling that GC could be the platform for that. Any comments?

Shinji

Sounds about right. The PS2 has had a great Christmas, but once Europe has got the PS2 titles that launched in the USA for Xmas, there's not a huge amount on radar. Xbox is going to take a while to get on its feet - none of the launch games are worth the price of entry, although it's better than the woeful PS2 launch lineup.

Gamecube is strong out of the stalls and there's lots of good stuff promised down the line. Of the stuff I've played....


Super Monkey Ball is the single most fun party game I've ever played, bar none. It's crazy, varied, addictive and simply fantastic. This is why Sega will ALWAYS be the best games company on the planet.


Super Smash Bros Melee is close behind it though. It's totally mental and basically one big in-joke for old Nintendo fans, but that's not a bad thing really. It doesn't take itself seriously, it's a good laugh and it's well worth owning.


Rogue Leader is the best Star Wars game yet, in my estimation. The graphics are spot on, the spitting image of the movies (and better in some places), and while it feels a bit samey at first, the sheer variety of things to do and places to see and enemies to blow up soon stacks up. Really very impressive indeed, my only nark being the slightly offputting controls but that seems to be a personal thing, as many others I know love 'em.


Wave Race Blue Storm has the most accurate simulation of water I've yet seen in a game, and it kicks stuff like Splashdown or Jet Ski Riders into touch. Looks pretty good, but plays amazingly - top notch physics and weather effects, water motion is superb, tides move in and out, rain splatters your visor... Some people don't like it, because racing on water is so different to normal racing, but I love it to bits. First game I've ever played that really conveyed the sensation of being out on the water properly.

Luigi's Mansion is good but slightly disappointing nonetheless. It seemed excellent when I played it in Japanese, but it turns out that half the puzzles were only puzzles because I couldn't follow the dialogue properly! They made it so much more fun... It's got really nice graphics, a neat sense of humour and some good gameplay, but it's a bit short and not to everyone's tastes.


Stuff I've played more briefly... Pikmin is very, very cool. Clever as bedamned, beautifully executed, quirky and challenging, it's one of the most original console games of the past few years for sure. Really looking forward to playing it more. Starfox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet is also very good fun, it's a bit formulaic in places but mixing the Starfox gameplay with a running-around adventure game is a nice two for the price of one combination.

Eternal Darkness is the other one that springs to mind - it's fun, in a resident-evil-ish kind of way, and well worth a look, some innovative features, but I suspect it'll be overshadowed by Resident Evil itself when it comes out next year, because it looks spectacular....

Dustaz

At the risk of opening up a can of worms:

Originally posted by Shinji
Component is a bizarre YUV bodge and basically boils down to SVideo over a different connector with some weirdo encoding

Umm, no? Component = YUV. They are the same thing. At least they are on the DigiBeta sitting beside me here
and Component/YUV is MUCH better quality than S-Video (whish isnt really that much hotter than Composite.)

And if you want to really get back to basics, PAL is a far, far superior video standard to NTSC, which is one of the most badly thought out, poor quality kludges of all time...

Amen:)

29.98 frames per second? LIEK OMG WTF.

hudson806

Shinj, thanks for the comments about the games: I must admit that it looks like an impressive piece of kit. Might play the wait-and-see game for a little while longer though...

Originally posted by Dustaz
Umm, no? Component = YUV. They are the same thing. At least they are on the DigiBeta sitting beside me here
and Component/YUV is MUCH better quality than S-Video (whish isnt really that much hotter than Composite.)

Just to add to that (you did open the can of worms after all Dustaz ):

I think what Shinj is talking about is the fact that S-video is related to Component video: Component has 3 channels of video information: Y, U and V. S-video has two: Y and C. C is just U and V phase-modulated onto each other (obviously, this causes a loss in color detail.)

TBH, I think this is the root of the mistaken belief in Europe that RGB is a better solution than Component for high quality output: People knew that displays are all RGB internally, so an RGB input sounded like a perfect match for them. Component was just seen as a rich man's S-Video, rather than a standard in its own right, and certainly nowhere near as good as RGB

The rest of the world (ie. the US and Japan) backed Component and developed it into a high quality next-generation consumer standard, with features that we can only dream about here in RGB Europe - Hi-Def, Progressive Scan etc.

To make matters worse for us, almost all digital gear these days is Component native: All DVDs wordwide are encoded as YUV, Mini DV etc. etc., meaning that output has to be transcoded to RGB to display on European TVs, and that, although the images on the tape or disk are progressive scan and hi-def, we can't use those features at all

Unfortunately, this has left us absolutely screwed in Europe when looking for High Quality output: it simply doesn't exist.

Shinji

Ah hang on, now you're cheating - I was talking about game console AV stuff specifically, which is a different kettle of fish purely because all game consoles run on RGB internally, so you have to transcode to get YUV. Obviously DVD is a different story.

Dustaz

OMFG CHAETOR!!! LIEK WTF RGBHACK!

amp

Jesus lads, chill before you start going to start talking in hexidecimal.

Dustaz

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