Local Loop Unbundling - from today's Irish Times

plum

EU begins moves to force telecoms liberalisation

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The European Commission opened legal proceedings against three member-states yesterday for failing to open their local telecoms networks to competition. Ireland was not included, although no competitors have yet provided services over local networks here, write Jamie Smyth and Denis Staunton
The Commission said Germany, Greece and Portugal could ultimately face legal action in the European Court of Justice unless they act to increase competition for telephone and internet services on lines running between homes or businesses and local switchboards.

A spokesman for the Telecommunications Commissioner, Mr Erkki Liikanen, said Ireland appeared to be complying with the rules. But he warned that the Commission would not hesitate to act if other problems appeared in the future.

"The Irish incumbent is offering access to its local loop in terms of full access and shared access. If it is effectively offered and made properly available, that's fine. If potential competitors don't take this up, that could be for other reasons, like market conditions," he said.

Eircom last night welcomed the Commission's decision as a clear vindication of its position that it had already provided access to the local loop in the Republic.

A spokesman said the real issue was that Eircom had provided full access to its local loop since January, but that other operators had failed to take it up and failed to invest in rolling out new services. "Despite all the hype from the big global competitors in Ireland, they have failed to advance the broadband agenda," he said.

The Commission made the issue of local loop unbundling a priority when it passed a regulation mandating access for competitors from January 2001. However, progress on the issue has been extremely slow in Europe, and the Commission has threatened to take several EU states, including the Republic, to the European court.

Lengthy negotiations between Eircom and rival operators here - along with a legal dispute over the price firms will pay Eircom to gain access to the network - have characterised the process.

Rival companies have claimed Eircom has persistently delayed the process, while Eircom itself has claimed that other firms were just not willing to invest.

During the process, several firms withdrew from a committee which was working towards opening the local telecoms network.

However, the first contract enabling Esat to access an Eircom telecoms exchange in Limerick was signed recently, and the firm may be in a position to offer services to customers by March.

dahamsta

"Despite all the hype from the big global competitors in Ireland, they have failed to advance the broadband agenda," he said.

Pot. Kettle.

adam

Lex_Diamonds

This is awful news. Eircom are now in a very good position, sticking their palm in the face of the ODTR as it tries to punch its way to LLU.

The teacher wont be coming out to the yard to help...

aidan_dunne

The problem here, of course, is that technically Eircom are doing nothing wrong. They claim that they have carried out LLU since last January and this is correct. The problem lies in the prices Eircom are charging other operators and the conditions they are also laying out for the other operators to access the exchanges. You can't say to Eircom that they haven't unbundled the loop. They have, it's the prices that are causing the hastle.

That's why the EU haven't come down like a ton of bricks on Eircom. Mr. Liikanen contacts Eircom and says, "Excuse me, have you unbundled the local loop in Ireland yet?" Eircom says, "Yes, of course we have. Since last January, in fact, as we were instructed." "Okay, that's fine then," says Liikanen. However, did he ask about the pricing and conditions Eircom set with regards LLU? Or did he inquire if other operators had taken up the option to enter the exchanges? No. As long as the loop is unbundled everything's hunky dory and Mr. Liikanen's job is done.

Somebody needs to inform Mr. Liikanen about the real situation in this country. You see, Eircom have complied with the EU instructions to carry out LLU but have priced it in such a way that the other operators can't take up the option. This way, Eircom are seen in the eyes of the EU as having done what they were supposed to do but are still able to maintain control of the loop and hold onto their monopoly. It's the same situation as the rolling out of ADSL. In September Eircom launched ADSL but priced it ridiculously high. That way they could say to the ODTR, "There you go, Etian. ADSL is now available, just as you asked," even though they set a price on it that was totally stupid.

Eircom have this attitude of saying, "Well, the services are available, just as we were told to do by the ODTR and the EU. If it's priced too high or the other operators don't want to take up the LLU option, it's not our problem! We just did what we were told to do," and then sit back smugly knowing that if they are brought to court over it they can plead this kind of case and probably win, thus managing to still hold onto the monopoly.

As I said, I don't think Mr. Liikanen knows the full story with LLU in this country (probably because Eircom "forgot" to tell him everything) and needs to be informed about it. Then, perhaps, the EU Commision will punish Eircom and they will have no option but to back down and offer LLU at a reasonable price. Until either our government or the EU threatens Eircom with court action or actually does take them to court, Eircom won't change. Someone needs to frighten the $hite out of Eircom first.

Son of Blam

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
The problem lies in the prices Eircom are charging other operators and the conditions they are also laying out for the other operators to access the exchanges. You can't say to Eircom that they haven't unbundled the loop. They have, it's the prices that are causing the hastle.

Has anybody heard anything about the prices Eircom are charging other operators to access their exchanges? Or anything about the conditions they are laying out?

Esat have successfully applied for access to an exchange in Limerick, did they comment about how expensive or difficult it was? Has anybody?

I'm talking about local loop access here, and not ADSL wholesale prices which we all know were said to be too expensive by the ODTR.

-Son of Blam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Son of Blam
Esat have successfully applied for access to an exchange in Limerick, did they comment about how expensive or difficult it was? Has anybody?

I'm talking about local loop access here, and not ADSL wholesale prices which we all know were said to be too expensive by the ODTR.

ESAT have complained in the past about conditions for access such as the need to have an expensive Eircom engineer present during work paid for by ESAT (this has been done away with in the UK). Not much is known about the particular deal with respect to Limerick except that it is a 150 page document.

IMO, everything hinges on the court case between the ODTR and Eircom. If Eircom wins then LLU is effectively dead.

dahamsta

I'm not going to comment on this in any detail now, I'll just answer questions and address a couple of topics mentioned.

Son of Blam, Eircom are currently charging the prices set by the Regulator, which are an average of European pricing. This is why they have litigated against the ODTR - they claim that the method by which is pricing was arrived at is unfair. It is unlikely Esat will comment on the pricing, as they have joined the court case against Eircom, as have Nevadatele.

SkepticOne, you're probably aware of this, but at this point in time pricing is the /only/ issue that has to be resolved. No doubt there will be objections to other stuff later, but at the moment everyone is concentrating on pricing.

adam

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by plum

Telecommunications Commissioner, Mr Erkki Liikanen

Anyone know how to contact this guy ?

Pragmatica

[Please don't post peoples email addresses. How would you like it if I posted yours? - adam]

Pragmatica

Sorry English home page here @ http://europa.eu.int/comm/commissioners/liikanen/index_en.htm ...

Maybe IFFOL can send him nice letter telling him how great internet access is here for Dublin and how much better it's gona be in the new year for Dublin Citerzin's ...

The rest of us uneducated members that cannot spell citerzin's have not got valid complaint about rest of country ... We not even members of any groups IFFOL Incl ...

All we need if for the EU to come in and give the 20 highest standing educated members of IFFOL 2mbit HDSL connection and and colse the forum as problem for everyone importan here is now solved ...

Pragmatica

It's on his site u ejit ... Why is his email there adam ? Maybe u can use ur great eduaction and figure it out ... So people can contact him

dahamsta

I sent Erkii Liikananen a letter about Internet in access a good while back, shortly after he said in The Register that he had recieved no complaints about LLU from telco's. He replied, and passed the email onto Peter Rodford for investigation. I would hope it had a tiny part in the official investigation, although that seems to have come to nought.

The problem is that letters and emails from consumers do not have as much effect as official complaints from telco's, and the telco's would seem to be happy with the status quo. An example of this is the fact that not one single telco has yet applied for FRIACO-style access, using the 1892 and 1893 dialling codes set aside by the Regulator. That's shameful, and highlights the problem we have in Ireland - not Regulation, but competition.

Erkii Liikanen is right, whether you like it or not. Eircom have not broken any *regulations*. I would submit that they have acted anti-competitively since the company was floated, and that's worse, because it's breaking the *law*. That's why it was interesting that Mario Monti doesn't appear in this news article. He was "mad for it" last week, how come he's disappeared from the scene again?

adam

dahamsta

It is on his site, and that's where people should look for it. I'll repeat the question: How would you like it if I posted your email address here? Grow up, for gods sake. No-one has challenged your intelligence, but if you insist on ranting like that, people are going to decide that you're either eight years, a moron or both. Look up "self-fulfilling prophesy".

adam

Pragmatica

So now I'm ur 8 year old target ... ur very hard on 8 year old's adam This how u'd treat ur own 8 year old child when they make mistake ? I know that I very young and I love using the internet @ school and I'm very inthusatic but I got alot to learn yet ... I think I need an good roll model to look up to and learn from ... Your child would have an better eduction than me .. right an would make such an bad mistake ... I know ... I know how hard it's is for all the young people in Ireland whit having nothing to do and no internet nor stuff and grown up's call us morons cause were not getting the grades and school n' stuff cause n't the government is poutting to much pressure on us whit hard exams n' stuff ... but u know like when like, like, we get the as good connection form eircom we'd be able to do better n'stuff cause kids seem to learn better on the net and it a huge recousce for stuff too ... anyway's

Why didn't u just say IFFOL already emailed him earlier in the year ...

I dont mind my email being posted if somebody was looking to contact me espically for something ergent ... like Internet access in Ireland ...

Well .. now that ur calmed down and stoped going in for the kill and explaind the situation reguards our mutual friend ... I'm happy with ur responce to that issue ... and for those that didn't get the chance to see his email address, just use the link above and find his email address there on the main page should u ever need it in a hurry ... with reguards adams late arriving info on the subject I have the conclusion that all that can be done has been done with the commisinor for the time being ...

Also adam since were not allowed to post email address on a board the supports mailto:hyperlinking ... could u please politely ask members not to request contact address on the boards as I might have made an even bigger mistake and give out some detremantal information ... thanks

Your Friend ... Pragmatica

Delphi91

Pragmatica,

Dahamsta is perfectly correct in what he says. Suppose if I knew your phone number and I started publishing it on this site - would that be any different?

The same applies with e-mail addresses. If I want my e-mail address to be available to others, I will make it available. I don't expect anyone who knows it to go posting it all over the place. If it's on a website that I publish then I consider that I have made it available. But I would be just a tab p****d off if I was to discover it on a site that I had no direct connection to, especially if it is used to get people to contact me..

Mike

Medion

Delphi91 is totally correct here Pragmatica. You should not post contact addresses on this forum or anywhere else on the net. You should post only links to the sites that have the contact addresses on them.

Thanks for your continued support and co-operation.

Medion!

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Delphi91
Pragmatica,

Dahamsta is perfectly correct in what he says. Suppose if I knew your phone number and I started publishing it on this site - would that be any different?

I don't know what kind of loony tunes you guys are but in case you have missed something this is the INTERNET !! a place of links and email addresses !

His email addres is not a personal contact issue - it's a PUBLIC access issue and it should be clearly - as it is on HIS own site.
What kind of idiotic internet organisation is it where members want to keep public officials email addresses secret for God's sake.

As quoted on his own site:
erkki.liikanen@cec.eu.int

Medion

Ok! I think I'm changing my opinion now delphi91! Doesn't like make alot of differance where anybody gets the address does it ?

Even an 8 year old moron can browse to the site and then get his contact address and then contact him however he see's fit.

This is really funny if you think about it in depth delphi91

Can I ask another question ? What is the real issue here ? Cause I'm confused. Sorry I get confused easily!

Is it that were not allowed to post contact addresses or are we not allowed to contact these addresses personaly in IOFFL's view like adam did ?

If the latter is true ? What is the distinction or reasoning behind that ?