More alternative than alternative ???

anony

Sunday I went to vicar St. to see Steve Vai, I know most hate this type of music...but I think if anyone who's even remotely openminded went along they would enjoy the show, because aswell as being a mindblowing musician, Vai is also a brilliant entertainer...a consumite performer ...... anyway my point is this... guitar instrumental music (which I've been a fan of for a long time)..recieves no airplay on TV or radio , even the alternative radio stations don't play it, mainstream music press virtually ignore it and even the NME type rags dispise it.... I think it has to be one of the true forms of "alternative" music ...still left....all right I know it has fairly limited appeal..... but what do you think.....Anyone else go????? Anyone

o sleep

i've never heard of steve vai, but (although i can't pick it up myself) apparently XFM play alot of alternative music, instrumental etc. and i don't know whether it's true to say that most of the people around here don't like alternative music, it's just not talked about much. jim o'rourke used to be guitar instrumental music, but he's gone all vocally on us (and so much better for it). i heard connect4orchestra on phantom the other week. but yeah, XFM would be your best bet.

what's steve vai like? any similarities with other musicians, etc? what label is he on?

Uncle Neddy

Horses for courses and all, but Steve Vai makes me puke. He is the number one purveyor of 'widdley squiddley' guitar solos. He is the dictionary definition of a session musician- amazing technically, but couldn't write a song for sh ite. And Satriani, and Malmstein.

skittles

It takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does, hmmmm.

tibor

by guitar instrumental do you mean wankery ala vai, satriani etc, or instrumental music with guitars ala redneck manifesto, don caballero, man or astro-man? etc..

if you're talking about the latter there's ****loads of it about.

Karl Hungus

I like the idea of "Alternative to the alternative".

But this does have it's faults though.
Trying to get ahold of obscure Norwiegan and Swedish music is quite a pain at times.


I didn't go to see Vai.
But I do have to agree that it's guitar wankery....

I mean, there are plenty of musicians out there that could better the likes of Vai technicaly wise, and still come out with some fantastic music.

If you like solos, and I mean really ****ing cool solos, not the "Widdley Squiddley" kinda ones, but real emotional jaw dropping kinda ones that really sound ****ing brilliant, then you should check out some of Children Of Bodom.

Alexi Laiho is a fantastic guitar player, easily in the same class as Satchmo and the likes, but he comes out with FAR, FAR better music.

Check out the song Kissing The Shadows by Children Of Bodom, and just see how Laiho is better.

Also Ihsahn from Emperor.
Now he's just astounding! Watching the live video, and watching his finger movements... Just something else altogether... Blinding.
And he's a fantastic songwriter, and singer for that matter (Classicaly trained Opera singer, you know?)...

PiE

Originally posted by AngelWhore
I like the idea of "Alternative to the alternative".

But wouldn't that be "Mainstream"?

Originally posted by AngelWhore
Trying to get ahold of obscure Norwiegan and Swedish music is quite a pain at times.

You and those bloomin' Scandi bands! Why don't you just go live there!

(On a side note, and even further off-topic, I'd actually love to live in Finland )

o sleep

i'd like to live in finland too. or maybe in the north of sweden, near the coast and the border of finland. that'd be sweet.

the fnj

Originally posted by AngelWhore

I mean, there are plenty of musicians out there that could better the likes of Vai technicaly wise,

Please tell me and how you know this?

I was under the impression that Vai was "technically" the fastest guitarist in the world for a start. This would also tend to lead me to beleive that he is definatly one of the best if not the best in the world.

Just because you like a certain kind of music Angelwhore it does not mean that the musicians who play it are superior to anyone else.

sanvean

"Just because you like a certain kind of music Angelwhore it does not mean that the musicians who play it are superior to anyone else".

hmm. and just because steve vai is the fastest guitarist in the world doesn't mean he's the best. this is similar to the argument (i can't remember by who, but it was some communist from the 30s) that said that classical music was obviously superior to jazz and blues due to the fact that classical music contained far superior number of notes, changes etc etc, and that jazz, due to its simplicity in chords and time was essentially cultural masturbation. his argument is inherently flawed because he is essentially saying that because something is more complex it is therefore better. which is bull****.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by The FANJ


Please tell me and how you know this?

I was under the impression that Vai was "technically" the fastest guitarist in the world for a start. This would also tend to lead me to beleive that he is definatly one of the best if not the best in the world.

Just because you like a certain kind of music Angelwhore it does not mean that the musicians who play it are superior to anyone else.

"Technically" there is only so fast any human being can go at playing guitar in terms of picking speed and finger movement.
After a couple of years playing, theoretically anyone can do it.

Playing the bass for a year, and anyone could do the hammer-ons that Via does. It's simple once you get the strenght in your fingers.

If you knew anything about guitar playing, you'd know that technicality counts for **** if you can't write a good song.


And I certainly don't mean to be baised when saying various musicians from the music I listen to are better.
Just that I am more aware of musicians in the music I listen to, than say... Music I DON'T listen to. Hmm?

Any Jazz musician would tell you that there are other Jazz musicians that could easily better Vai. I don't know this for a fact, because I don't listen to Jazz.
Do you understand how this works?

Vai is by no means the best, simply because all it needs is practice to do what he does.


As another note, I would like to rub in a little further about musicians I like being quite good at what they do...

A certain Jan Axl Von Blomberg (Maybe you're heard of him?) AKA. Hellhammer... Currently holds the World record as fastest drummer (Well, last time I checked, he did.)
Not only that, but he is a master of every style of drumming, and is one of the most highly saught after session artists in the world, if the THE most.
And is also currently creating his own drumming style.
Which band does he play with?
Mainly Mayhem, Arctures, Kovenant... Also Session with Thorns, Troll, and many other.
As well as live session with hundreds of other bands from just about every style of music that involves live drumming.

But the main reason I like his work?
He has such variety, originality, and creates some fantastic music. He's a brilliant songwriter.
Meaning, that if he was beating in his 'Fastest drummer' niche, I would still be listening to his music, regaurdless.


I know you usualy just like to start little fights FanJ. But did you even listen to the music I said?
Did you even bother to make a valid opinion on something before you opened you're noise hole?
Please.
Listen to the music I've mentioned, and come back and form a proper opinion once you've listened to it properly.

o sleep

the most amazing drummer i've heard (and seen) is jim white, from the dirty three. amazing variant of style etc etc speed wow. although i'm not really clued in to what it takes to be a great drummer, but i know he is. listen to the end of "i remember a time when once you used to love me" from the dirty three's horse stories album and you'll see what i mean. when i saw him playing in Smog's band in the TBMC he was hilarious and took all the attention away from bill calahan. he had no expression on his face and looked like an extra from the sopranos but played so amazingly. words cannot describe him (so what was the point of this?)

freakofnature

whats wrong with looking like an extra from the sopranos?

DadaKopf

By sanvean:
this is similar to the argument (i can't remember by who, but it was some communist from the 30s) that said that classical music was obviously superior to jazz and blues due to the fact that classical music contained far superior number of notes, changes etc etc, and that jazz, due to its simplicity in chords and time was essentially cultural masturbation

It was Theodor Adorno, if you're interested.

A jazz musician who is playing a piece of serious music, one of Beethoven's simplest minuets, syncopates it involuntarily and will smile superciliously when asked to follow the normal divisions of the beat. This is the "nature" which, complicated by the ever-present and extravagant demands of the specific medium, constitutes the new style and is a "system of non-culture, to which one might even concede a certain 'unity of style' if it really made any sense to speak of stylized barbarity."

This occurs in the principle of jazz syncopation, which simultaneously derides stumbling and makes it a rule.
- from The Culture Industry

The previous discussion shows that the difference between popular and serious music can be grasped in more precise terms than those referring to musical levels such as "lowbrow and highbrow," "simple and complex," "naive and sophisticated." For example, the difference between the spheres cannot be adequately expressed in terms of complexity and simplicity. All works of the earlier Viennese classicism are, without exception, rhythmically simpler than stock arrangements of jazz. Melodically, the wide intervals of a good many hits such as "Deep Purple" or "Sunrise Serenade" are more diffficult to follow per se than most melodies of, for example, Haydn, which consist mainly of circumscriptions of tonic triads and second steps. Harmonically, the supply of chords of the so-called classics is invariably more limited than that of any current Tin Pan Alley composer who draws from Debussy, Ravel, and even later sources. Standardization and non standardization are the key contrasting terms for the difference.
- from 'On Popular Music'

Pretty bollox eh? In reality, Adorno was a snob and a racist. He just didn't think the black men were able to contribute any 'high culture' to the world.

Jesus, why did I paste all that stuff? The links are here:
http://www.ddc.net/ygg/etext/adorno.htm
http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/fpm/texte/adorno.htm

I don't think anyone can categorically state what's best objectively. It's all a matter of preference, period. But if it means baiting AngelWhore, I'm down with that!

But this isn't where the thread started, is it? There's plenty of guitar instrumental music (i.e. no lyrics, AngelWhore).

Check out www.epitonic.com and maybe www.mp3it.com. They have a whole load of legit downloads so just try them out.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by DadaKopf

I don't think anyone can categorically state what's best objectively. It's all a matter of preference, period. But if it means baiting AngelWhore, I'm down with that!

But this isn't where the thread started, is it? There's plenty of guitar instrumental music (i.e. no lyrics, AngelWhore).

All Art is opinion, never fact.

To me, and many others out there, music is art.

And that maybe another reason I'd discount such 'technical' wizards like Vai, and Satch...

But with that said, I would have liked to have seen Vai play.


As far as no lyrics?
Many would argue that Children Of Bodom's lyrics are so bad, that they might as well have none!

But seriously, as far as guitar solos go, and really catchy riffs, CoB are a damn fine band.
Not to mention that mainman guitar meistro Alexi Laiho is younger than I am, and he can easily match up to the likes of Vai and Satch... Impressive!