Bonggggg!!! ... your opinion(?)

Bard

The Angelus.

Every day at 6.00pm, RTÉ One shows this one-minute sequence featuring scenes of Irish people being pensive and still with the irritating soundtrack of a large church bell going BONGGGGG 13 times.

It's supposed to be a call to the good Catholic (or "Christian"?) people of Ireland to take a minute to reflect, and perhaps have a little pray to themselves and tell "God" how wonderful "he" is.

Now, as an un-believing heathen yobbo (I don't believe in the Catholic "God" but I don't believe either that I'm an atheist or an agnostic...), I think the Angelus being on our main national TV station should have been done away with years ago.

Ireland is supposed to be a veritable melting-pot of cultures and creeds, yet the NATIONAL station - funded by the STATE continues with this outmoded, ignorant and frankly biased (and some might say 'sectarian') practise.

I just thought I'd get the opinion of the rest of yiz... (yes, yet another excuse for a poll )

So what do ye say?

Yay or nay? God or Schmod? Stay or slay? Bong or gone? (... you get the idea...)

I say... KILL IT OFF!

Bard

akkk... poll didn't work.

I know what I did wrong... Feic... (hit submit button twice and got the error message)

ah well... giz yer opinions anyway

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Bard

Ireland is supposed to be a veritable melting-pot of cultures and creeds

What on earth are you talking about?!?! When exactly did this country become such a melting pot?? I think you'll find that a lot of the people in this country would be happy enough if the other cultures and creeds fecked off back where they came from.

As for the Angelus, RTE as the national broadcaster are supposed to be appealing to all ages, imagine the uproar in the older generations if the Angelus was ditched, it would be another sign of how blessed Ireland is becoming a nation of heathen fornicators.

If you find the Angelus irritating, don't watch it. That advice is dished out often enough. Considering I'm an atheist, I don't give a toss about the Angelus or the Catholic Church, if, however, people want to use it as a prompt to pray for a minute or reflect on the day or whatever, then let them.

(I don't believe in the Catholic "God" but I don't believe either that I'm an atheist or an agnostic...)

Ah, a 24 carat fence sitter - going to hedge your bets and start praying on your death bed are you?

mike65

Kill the Bongs!

They're an insult to anyone with wit or intelligence,
RTE is funded by Catholic , Protestant and dissenter
and is a semi-state body answerable to the minister
of the day.

I remember when Pat Kenny's' radio prog ran from 11 till
1 pm and he'd avoid saying back after the Angelus and instead
talked of a pause for prayer or somesuch which sounded much better to me, but of course the little Catholic tyrants were
quickly writing and phoning to complain.

I don't think RTE is entiely happy with the 6pm Bongs
as it means they loose viewers to BBC 1 and Sky News,
before TV3 began thier news at 5.30 RTE moved the Angelus
foward about 30 seconds in an effort to stop poeple
switching over to watch the gorgeous, pouting whatsherface.

Mike.

Lex_Diamonds

I agree with you Bard, it really is time RTE said goodbye to the Angelus. As well as being irritating, it is also incredibly out of place in the Ireland of today, as you so rightly pointed out.

Stephen

I say get rid of it. Waste of time. If people want to pray or whatever at six o clock, surely they can do this without the aid of RTE?

Monkey

There's no point in arguing if god does or doesn't exist, I think because it can't be proven either way unless there's a second coming or something likewise life after death - if it exsits you'll never know until you die and if it doesn't you'll never ever know

Bard

Originally posted by Castor Troy

What on earth are you talking about?!?! When exactly did this country become such a melting pot?? I think you'll find that a lot of the people in this country would be happy enough if the other cultures and creeds fecked off back where they came from.

Although that (racist) attitude may - sorry DOES - exist, it doesn't stop the fact that this country DOES have a large amount of foreign born nationals living and working here.

I don't know if you need to open your eyes a bit more but you should surely know that that this country is home to far more than just the standard Irish Catholic caucasian leprechaun-a-like gobshites.

This country is quite different to that picture that many foreigners see of it, and our national broadcaster should really sit up and take note of that - and that goes further than simply the Angelus.

As for the Angelus, RTE as the national broadcaster are supposed to be appealing to all ages, imagine the uproar in the older generations if the Angelus was ditched, it would be another sign of how blessed Ireland is becoming a nation of heathen fornicators.

My point is that RTÉ as the national broadcaster are supposed to be appealing not only to people of ALL AGES but to people of ALL RELIGIONS and to single out a religion for (practically) sole promotion is entirely unfair.

I simply don't agree with a national (state owned) broadcasting company giving ONE church such heavy and biased coverage. At the very least, why shouldn't the images shown during the Angelus show people that are (obviously) from a broad cross-section of religions and races?

If you find the Angelus irritating, don't watch it. That advice is dished out often enough.

Yeah - it's over-used and cliché'd and about as effective an argument as "Art is supposed to provoke thought and reaction, therefore that turd in a cardboard box is 'ART' ".

Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It is also, of course, ignorant.

Considering I'm an atheist, I don't give a toss about the Angelus or the Catholic Church, if, however, people want to use it as a prompt to pray for a minute or reflect on the day or whatever, then let them.

Catholic churches all around the country clang their bells at 6pm. Why can that not be taken as a cue, rather than having it coming from the supposed bastian of unbiased journalism that our national broadcaster SHOULD be ...?

Ah, a 24 carat fence sitter - going to hedge your bets and start praying on your death bed are you?

Not in the slightest. If I was sitting on the fence, I'd probably be an agnostic, - but I don't believe I am. I most certainly won't wait until I'm on my death bed to choose a religion and/or start praying. I am a lot of things, but a hypocrite is not one of them.

To be honest, all religions have their merits and their drawbacks - some seeming like more realistic and truthful looking prospects to me, - some seem more attractive than others in that I can imagine myself at some stage fitting into their belief systems... - but as things stand I don't have a religion, - unless you count my own spiritualism within myself - inner peace and all that. There are no deities for me to worship - or to refuse to worship.

My point is that while I can certainly accept your idea of "don't like it, don't watch it", it shouldn't be there to watch in the first place because (ideally, perhaps) the national state broadcaster should do its utmost to ensure that the programming content it outputs is as unbiased as possible - whether that be in relation to religion, nationality, or to some extent age.

DadaKopf

Axe it.

Illkillya

its not at all irritating imo, its just bonging for 1 minute, but it means a lot to a lot of ppl.. old people and stuff, so i don't see the point in axing it

get rid of those annoying beeps before the news on rte radio 1

Bard

Originally posted by Illkillya

get rid of those annoying beeps before the news on rte radio 1

at least you can synchronise your watch with that - the last of the beeps being bang on the hour. I think it's 6 beeps ... i.e.: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, -NOW!-.

bonkey

Dude!

They show bongs on the tv now? Is it, like, uhhhh, on the shopping channel?

Cool.

jc

p.s. Theyre part of our heritage now. You may hate em, but you'd miss 'em if they were gone.

p.p.s. TV viewing is not mandatory. If 1 minute of your tv-watching life means so damned much to you, then change channels

Baz_

a very atypical reply from Bonkey.

I say also to axe it.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Bard


My point is that while I can certainly accept your idea of "don't like it, don't watch it", it shouldn't be there to watch in the first place because (ideally, perhaps) the national state broadcaster should do its utmost to ensure that the programming content it outputs is as unbiased as possible - whether that be in relation to religion, nationality, or to some extent age.

if we had unbiased television it would be very bland and boring.
OOPS!
it already is.
when rte goes on sky digital, i iwll only watch it so i can see friends and ER before the english channels show them.
personally i dont see a problem with the angelus, however i have seen families sit down at 6pm and say the rosary or whatever it is that left footers do during the angalus

its quiet cute actually.
what a funny little religion you have!

TwoShedsJackson

Although that (racist) attitude may - sorry DOES - exist, it doesn't stop the fact that this country DOES have a large amount of foreign born nationals living and working here.

I don't know if you need to open your eyes a bit more but you should surely know that that this country is home to far more than just the standard Irish Catholic caucasian leprechaun-a-like gob****es.

If I need to point out the difference between that and 'a melting pot of cultures and creeds' then you need to start reading posts properly before you reply.

Excelsior

Switch channels if you don't like it. It would be nice if it was applicable to people who weren't Catholics. It is still popular with older people and I can't remember noticing it for many a long year.

C B

There was an attempt a few years back to axe it but nearly all church organisations (RC, CofI, and Islamic I think) opposed its removal. They felt that it was worthwhile to have a time for national prayer and accepted. The old pictures of the Madonna and Child were removed due to their overtly Catholic symbolism.

If you don't like it don't watch.

Brown Eyes

They changed it from the picture of Mary with baby to images of contemporary Ireland with people going about their daily lives stopping for reflection. I like the idea of the angelus evolving into a minute(?) of reflection, meditation, chanting, silence, praying - whatever rocks your boat.

However i do think they should get rid of the bongs as they have conoctations of Christianity.

ykt0di9url7bc3

I think its class that we have the Angelus on radio and on TV

Its so cool that a religion can get a service like that on state broadcasting to help them keep their faith with all the other catholics in this country and around the world....

They give up 2 mins of thier day for what they believe in and some people cant give respect for it....

whatever your thinking, i know when i see the angelus it reminds me of what i believe in...

its good to reflect and if some people want to remove it then i think they have problems with their own faith when confronted with another religion...

Bard

"If you don't like it don't watch it."

- well I generally don't watch it, - that's not the point. I disagree in principle with it being on our national TV station in it's existing form.

SearrarD... it may well remind you and many others of what you believe in ... and more power to ya for that... but it reminds me (and many others I'm sure) of what I truly do not believe in and more often than not of what manages to annoy, disturb and often bore many people.

I'd agree with the idea of leaving the 6.00 - 6.01pm slot as a minute of reflection with the existing images but removing the church-bells which, as has been said above, are quite obviously a catholic reference.

Even a minutes silence for reflection would be better, to be honest.

Just my 2 "cent".

Manach

Keep it, if only for annoying the Dublin-4 types that seem to run the station.

While someone made the point of all colours & creeds being represented in modern Ireland, you'll find in main the creed section will not find it advantagus to critic the ways of other beliefs least it rebound on their own belief system.

adnans

why dont you all complain about teaching religion in schools before you tackle your dear TV station? you can always switch the channel when the angelus is on, but you can get rid of religious teachings in the national education system where it is supposed to cater for all cultures and religions.

adnans

Aspro

A few years back when myself and two other proud atheists were renting a gaf (before bastard landlord sold it and turfed us out) we had a mate over from England to stay with us.

At 6pm we were all watching telly when the Angelus came on. It was the first time she had experienced anything like this on a national broadcaster. To take the piss the three of us fell to our knees and pretended to be dead serious about praying for the duration. She broke her ****e laughing and then so did we.

I think it's ridiculous in a diverse and more secular society. Religion is a personal affair. I don't want to see wistful gob****es staring at the horizon and pointing at sheep urging me to pray before I watch the news on the channel I pay for.

Bongg offffffff

WhiteWashMan

lets face it, the catholic church is a sham anyway.
catholcism is so full of holes you could use it for whatever you use holey things for.
however, it is quaint in that sort of, oh my god i didnt realise they still sacrificed virgins' type of way....

azezil

hmmm I wonder if any religion can get a 1 min bong slot... could be a good way to draw in the suckers .... woops I mean devoted believers, who have to give money to show how devoted they are.

Gerry

**** no, its that horribly offensive angelus, forcing me to think holy thoughts, and convert to catholicism if I'm not already catholic. At least the angelus is, "consistency in a world gone mad". It hasn't decreased in quality like most of rte's output. But its so naive to hope for an improvement in that, so lets pick a nice easy target to score some points off! Cool! Perhaps it should be nice and pc, there should always be an option for everyone, so nobody feels left out, because thats how everyone feels deep down, really pc. Ah wait, I just switch channels.

I don't know if you need to open your eyes a bit more but you should surely know that that this country is home to far more than just the standard Irish Catholic caucasian leprechaun-a-like gob****es.

Shockingly enough, some of these non stereotype fitting people are Irish also!!!!

I'm hip, I'm with it. I'm fighting the good fight. I hate all of you equally, you small minded racialists!!!!

Tomorrows topic: Ban all religious broadcasts!

Typedef

Bard is totally right.

Ireland is a Republic. A country by the people & for the people not an enclave of the Roman Catholic church. Frankly I am a little offended that when I want to get information from a state run agency ie RTE that I have to have this Religion shoved down my throat. Sure I respect that the majority of people in Ireland are Catholic, but that is not my religion, I have no religion and it is not the place of a government agency to allude that one religion is correct.
If someone wants to participate in Catholicism that is their right, but I live in Ireland also, I would really rather that when I recieve news from a state funded source that I did not have someone else's religious fundamentalist message shoved in my face no mattter how main stream that message may be.

Seriously though, the angelus is not appropiate in a state broadcast, if someone chooses to worship a divine entity via Catholicism then that is their right as a sentient citizen of the Irish Republic, I as a citizen also have rights, one of those rights I feel should be to have access to state facilities without a papist pretext thank you very much.

Bottom line, state bodies, state facilities should have an impartial stance on Religion, atheists, agnostics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, people of other religious presuasions should have parity of esteem within the Republic in fact that is one of the fundamental messages of a Republic equality and representation of people, not section X of the people or the Religiously correct section Y. Republic does not equal Papal Banana Republic there is a difference, lets recognise the difference and quitely and politely ask the powers that be in RTE to discontinue the practice.

SantaHoe

Sure haven't yiz little to worry about now?
Boo-diddly-hoo, some station that I never watch plays 60 seconds of 'bongs' before the news... does it really keep you awake at night?
If hearing the angelus is the worst thing that happens to you in any given day - you have my envy.
I know people who like the angelus, and turn on the TV just to watch/hear it.
It's there for the people who want it - you don't like it, change the channel.

I'm convinced you people are running out of things to moan about.

billy the squid

hows this for a soloution

When RTE goes on sky digital those that want the angelus can like push the red button on their remote and have the damn things when ever they want


and they can have subtitles on Aertell p888 if they want them too

I can see it now

BONG!!!!
BONG!!!!
BONG!!!!

Excelsior

Originally posted by Typedef


papist

Back in the '30s, CS Lewis used this in "A Preliminary Study of Miracles," in a self-confessed ironic tone. This was because the word, when used otherwise, is regarded as quite insulting to Catholics. I find it amusing that you, of all people, would use it.

Originally posted by Typedef

religious fundamentalist message

That is what the Angelus is now, is it? That is what modern Catholicism is now?
May you never suffer at the hands of real fundamentalism because I don't know if your fragile constitution would survive it.
Typedef, you accept the majority are Catholic, you surely therefore accept the majority are Christian, you surely therefore accept the majority are Theist in some degree, and yet you think a minute of bells and pictures of people sitting on benches in a park in Mullingar is an infringement on your rights.
"Oh no!" says Bard, "the cardinal sin of our times: it is BORING!"

Go find something THAT ISN'T A TV PROGRAMME to get all self-righteous about.

Bard

eh...? calm the fluck down will yiz?

I'm NOT getting "self-righteous about it", as Exelsior says I am. I'm not "moaning" as SantaHoe says I am. No, of course, it doesn't "really keep" me "awake at night". I KNOW I can change the channel while it's on - I DO change the channel - that's not the point!

My point was that I fundamentally disagree in principle with such an item featuring on our national broadcaster. My point is that our national broadcaster shouldn't be seen to favour and promote any one religion so strongly as to feature such an item in a prime time slot (as well as featuring a broadcast of a catholic mass at the weekend) - above and beyond other religions which don't even get a look in.

This argument has been well fleshed out by other posters above. I wasn't having a moan;- I was putting a topic up for debate.

Typedef

Totally right.

It is inappropiate for a state agency to promote any Religion in this manner. State money should not be spent on this kind of thing, and while I accept that a majority of people are Catholic, I would also point out that in the past a majority of people used to think that black people were sub-human, so just because a majority of people think that the national news should have a religious overture, I as an Irish citizen (theoretically an equal no matter what my religious presuasion) should not have the state allowing a quasi almost subliminally suggestive thing like the repetative chiming of bells coupled with idealised images all of which are associated with one Religion to be associated with the state news.

How can the Irish defend against acusations of being a Papist banana Republic when the national news is tainted with this one religion shoved down your throat? It's wrong. If someone wants religion in their life, as a citizen of Ireland that is their right, not their duty, it is not the place of the state to suggest that somehow the Roman Catholic Church is and appropiate body to be associated with what should be an impartial and ostensibly secular news service. Bottom line, if you want religion in your life, good for you, that's your choice and I wouldn't try to stop you, therefore extend me and people like me the same curtiousy and don't force me to participate in your religious practices. This is a Republic, respect the fact that other people are not of the same religious presuasions and stop trying to force said religion on people.

There is no need to be aggressive about this, simply give non-Catholic people space, give non-Catholic people the right to have access to state facilities without a tacit sermon, it's their country too.

JustHalf

Tell me, why should the majority of the people of the country not be allowed to have a one minute television show retained?

But perhaps if it was 'Friends' you might have a problem with people saying it should be taken of the air.

Excelsior

Originally posted by Typedef

How can the Irish defend against acusations of being a Papist banana Republic when the national news is tainted with this one religion shoved down your throat?

As a happy, freely practicing, remote control owning "non-Catholic" I would like to point out that this is a ridiculous sentence.

Typedef

Originally posted by JustHalf
Tell me, why should the majority of the people of the country not be allowed to have a one minute television show retained?

Because it is as wrong for the state news to espouse one Religion over another as it is for the state news to suggest that god exists and that the news is the proper place for god or the worship of whatever god you do, or in my case don't believe in.
Worship of god should not be on the daily national news, the state should not even suggest that god does or does not exist, the state should have an impartial stance. The state is meant to be a secular entity and the news should reflect this fact, this state has no official religion since the Church of Ireland was disestablished so it is wholly wrong for the national news to have tacit religious pretexts like the angelus.

But perhaps if it was 'Friends' you might have a problem with people saying it should be taken of the air.

Conjecture, also as far as I am aware friends is not the accepted precursor to the national news, further friends does not attempt to make any kind of subtle religious assertions, like the national news makes. It is inappropiate for the state to seem to sanction any one religion in this fashion.

tobi

I say axe it. It’s about time Ireland become more of a secular society.

Digi_Tilmitt

A few days ago in school our Yearhead gave a big speach about being nice to people and i thought it was great until she said 'We are a christian school with christian values.' This made me really mad, there a good few people in my school who are not christian how would they feel? Also I don't believe in God (although I'm meant to be a catholic) and I found it offending that she was implying that you had to be a christian to be a good person. I also tink that she was putting a bit of racism in that comment, with all this bin laden muslim stuff going on.

Ban the angelous, it's just another christian evil in the world.

androphobic

There's only one word for this thread.. and that's "stupid".

Whether you are Catholic or Christian or not is completely irrelevant here - one minute of TV devoted to some sort of religious reflection in a country where the majority of the people are still Christian is absolutely HARMLESS.

It's all well and good putting a topic "up for debate", and it is not my place to decide which topics would be suitable for this purpose, but personally, I find it amusing that the topic would even be debated.
The world could be falling down around us but yet some people would still feel that their basic rights were being infringed and that they were being treated with disrespect because the Angelus appears before the 6pm news. Oh yeah, and it's boring.

I mean, Christmastime was originally based on religion.. nowadays it has become very commercialised and material but nevertheless, would you refuse to participate in the festivities on the grounds that it has Christian connotations?
I sincerely doubt it.. but you'd switch off RTE simply because the Angelus is aired for one minute.
My God.

Self-righteousness indeed.

Happy Christmas.

Celt

Originally posted by androphobic

I mean, Christmastime was originally based on religion.. nowadays it has become very commercialised and material but nevertheless, would you refuse to participate in the festivities on the grounds that it has Christian connotations?

Hmmm, iirc, christmas as it is now has never been celebrated remotely like it ever before. Christmas only became christmas because of commercialism?
and wb andro, you seem to have been quiet lately.

Typedef

What's so "self righteous" about not wanting the state to force Catholicism down people's throats? People should be allowed to make up their own minds on this and not have to languidly sit back while being forced to deal with other people's religion and the encrochment of that religion on services and actions that should be secular and non-partisan. What's really self righteous is the religous argument that says "well most people are Catholic, therefore anyone who is not will just have to put up with Catholicism poking it's nose into the news and other aspects of the Republic, yes we know it's not the official religion, and this non-official but resolutely non-secular state of affairs suits us fine, because we follow the one true faith etc,etc,etc", yawn, yawn, yawn, go preach to someone who cares.

Nope I don't believe in god, the Irish Republic has no official religion, yes there are lots of other terrible things happening in the world, only thing is, injustice and inequality elsewhere does not make the theism in the news appropiate. How can anyone watch the 6-1 and realistically think that for example, there will be objective reporting of issues relating to the Catholic Church, when the news can't even seperate itself sufficiently from the influence of Catholicism to remove the angelus from the first minute of the daily national main broadcast? It's kind of funny most people defending the angelus are saying "yes it's not appropiate but it doesn't hurt anyone", funny thing is that this argument sounds alot like the arguments that are espoused when people are trying to "decriminalize" cannabis, querky kind of similarity really.

The more I think about this topic, the more it's seems to suggest a pretext of seperation of Church and State at the core. It seems that even though church and state are meant to be seperate in Ireland the reality is the converse is true and that people seem to think that this is not a harmful thing. So, a religious organisation, with billions of dollars/punts/euros at it's disposal, who's influence is so resolutely felt that it has a slot on the national news, being unofficially connected and entirely unaccountable to the people of this Republic via sufferage or anyother kind of elective/selective process, an entity that has ultra-right wing political and religious thought pervading every aspect of it's self and it's actions, having unofficial but recognised and substancial influence on the actions and governance of the Republic of Ireland is no bad thing? Hmm.... thanks for clearing that up.

Calman

This post is more to do with Typedef's post rather than the theme of this thread.
The Republic of Ireland is mainly Christian (Catholic), I'd guess a minimum of about 90% and probably more. If you don't like it- get out! You don't believe in God so you've obviously thought about it a lot. You could still disbelieve in God and be a good person- and if so great.

Regarding this thread- I say keep the angelus.

Celt

Originally posted by Calman
This post is more to do with Typedef's post rather than the theme of this thread.
The Republic of Ireland is mainly Christian (Catholic), I'd guess a minimum of about 90% and probably more. If you don't like it- get out! You don't believe in God so you've obviously thought about it a lot. You could still disbelieve in God and be a good person- and if so great.

Regarding this thread- I say keep the angelus.

Any what, 50% of that 90%(more probably) are non practicing?
yeuh huh

androphobic

Originally posted by WhiteLancer

and wb andro, you seem to have been quiet lately.

Eh thanks, I think. I've been around but moved to "the big smoke" to study so only read the boards when I'm at home.

androphobic

Originally posted by Typedef
What's really self righteous is the religous argument that says "well most people are Catholic, therefore anyone who is not will just have to put up with Catholicism poking it's nose into the news and other aspects of the Republic

It's for one minute. 60 seconds.

Personally, I'm not a Catholic, and there is no way in hell that I'm getting into an argument/debate/discussion/callitwhateveryoulike on religious beliefs in general, or my personal beliefs, but I don't have a problem with the Angelus.
The reason I find this thread and discussion amusing is that there are actually people who find it so offensive.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, even though you have made an utterly ridiculous comparison between the arguments defending the Angelus and cannabis, the transmission of the Angelus on TV for one minute is harmless.

Originally posted by Typedef
go preach to someone who cares.

I wasn't preaching. Thanks.

Originally posted by Typedef
It's kind of funny most people defending the angelus are saying "yes it's not appropiate but it doesn't hurt anyone", funny thing is that this argument sounds alot like the arguments that are espoused when people are trying to "decriminalize" cannabis, querky kind of similarity really.

I can only laugh. This argument may seem similar to you but could apply to many things. What a ridiculous comparison. Hash.. the Angelus.. Hash.. the Angelus.. heh.

Typedef

Umm just because you don't agree with my comparison does not make the conglomeration of Church and State on the national news appropiate. Sure pick holes at anecdotes and analogies if you want but, that does not address the fact that in this state the Roman Catholic Church is not meant to be a constituant part of the state and I would argue that the angelus is a symptom of a greater and wholely inappropiate grey-area of Church and state in the Republic of Ireland where really there should be no grey area, the Republic of Ireland had no official religion so therefore as a citizen of Ireland I would appreciate it if the state would act in a manner that befits it's supposed secluar status. No I won't be bullied into leaving Ireland because of my non-belief in god because that is religious presecution. It must be obvious that religious presecution is one of the mainstay's of the Irish grievances in Northern Ireland so therefore I think it would be hypocritical in the extreme for someone who lives under the "alleged" religious freedoms and equalities endmnafied by a republic to turn around to people within the same republic and say "your religious persuasions ... put up or shut up", hypocritical.

mike65

Originally posted by Typedef
It must be obvious that religious presecution is one of the mainstay's of the Irish grievances in Northern Ireland so therefore I think it would be hypocritical in the extreme for someone who lives under the "alleged" religious freedoms and equalities endmnafied by a republic to turn around to people within the same republic and say "your religious persuasions ... put up or shut up", hypocritical.

Quite so, this is a republiic therefore meant to be secular state, good grief I've agreed with Typedef, I'll need to lie down for a while...;)

Mike.