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newbie question about internet access
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30-11-2001 9:53pm#1
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Originally posted by bkehoe
Not all the channels at 28.*E need a card.
Brendan
Yes. When I said "UK channels" I should have been more specific and said "UK Terrestrial channels" which do need a card. Sorry for that!
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Originally posted by bkehoe
irishbyte, that is not correct. No CAM exists to install in a third party receiver. You can get a variety of channels FTA, Sky News, CNN, Shopping chans, etc; there are only a few FTV chans (ones that require a card).
Your information on third party CAMs is not exactly correct Brendan. While there is no marketed third party CAM for the Sky channels (I think) there are other CAMs for other services. Basically each provider uses its own CAM to guarantee its part of the set top box. Sky really doesn't want to share. The Hauppauge DVBS card has an interface for an add-on CAM which can be bought over the counter.
If I remember the DVB specs, the CAM is really a PCMCIA card with a card reader and some electronics. It is not that complex a piece of electronics/software and some software emulations are available though you would still need the card or a card emulator running on the PC. The stuff that was being discussed on one mailing list (the Linux DVB list) used the Hauppauge DVBS card which has an interface for a CAM. Basically it is a question of allowing the right data to get to the smartcard and the right data to get back from the smartcard.
You'll require at least a 60cm; 80cm recommended to use most of the services reliably in all weather.
While 65cm may be ok on ASTRA at 19.2E, the other services will require a dish bigger than 80 cm for reliable operation (ideally better than 90cm).
Setting up dishes (even two way systems) is actually a lot simpler than people make out, especially when you are going for a single satellite. The best way is to use a known transponder/channel to lock up with and then tweak to get it right. Very few systems require the use of a spectrum analyser to set up. Small domestic dishes actually have a fairly wide beamwidth compared to the larger ones. Hell you can use a dustbin lid if you really know what you are doing.
Regards...jmcc0 -
jmcc, of course there are other cams! Lots more to be exact. I was referring to 28*E, which he asked about. But other than a Czech transponder on Eurobird using Cryptoworks (which I doubt he wants to get), there is no CAM he can get for Videoguard. NDS actually own the rights to it.
I've used every service available to consumers in Europe with a 60cm to see if they'd work (Satnode, EON, Xantic, Satwave, Starspeeder, etc), and they do, and to allow a margin for weather, 80cm is perfect. Sky give 60cm dishes for digital in Ireland, yet 43cm works fine; just being sure that the service won't suffer from dropouts.
Brendan0 -
Originally posted by bkehoe
(which I doubt he wants to get), there is no CAM he can get for Videoguard. NDS actually own the rights to it.
I am well aware of that. In another lifetime the people in NDS used to get very upset (even more than the technology journalists do) with me for identifying weaknesses in their conditional access systems. But CAMs are not that complex and it would not be impossible to see a third party CAM for VideoGuard if there was a third party smartcard. Sky has not exhausted its local (.uk/.ie) market yet and as such does not seem to view the multi-CAM boxes as being a significant part of the market. The fact that the Sky package is on 28E means that it more or less has the satellite to itself and subscribers tend to be statisfied with that. Essentially it is possible to get the computer to work as a CAM and indeed connect a smartcard via the serial or parallel port but this would be getting way beyond the average user and really is not worth the time or effort since a legitimate Sky card is required. However for the less secure systems, it would be possible to have a smartcard emulator and an CAM emulator running on the same PC as the DVBS card. This is of course highly developmental and also illegal.
I've used every service available to consumers in Europe with a 60cm to see if they'd work (Satnode, EON, Xantic, Satwave, Starspeeder, etc), and they do, and to allow a margin for weather, 80cm is perfect. Sky give 60cm dishes for digital in Ireland, yet 43cm works fine; just being sure that the service won't suffer from dropouts.
The off ASTRA services are the trickiest ones as the footprint of the transponders is not spotted/centred within a few hundred miles of the SE of Ireland whereas the ASTRA at 28 (the transponders used for Sky) are optimised for this region. An 80cm offset is probably good enough but the quality of manufacture can vary considerably. The other factor is that the published footprints for transponders can actually vary over the lifetime of the satellite so it is always better to have that little bit of an edge. With the extra gain provided by the larger dish it is also possible to mount another LNB so that more than one satellite can be received from the same dish. With the 80 or 90cm dish it could be possible to receive the OpenSky service via Eutelsat at 7E and also the ASTRA 19.2E services though it could be messy considering there are birds at 16/13/10. The 60-65cm is probably ok for most of the year on ASTRA 19.2E though the one problem with such small dishes is that the mount is often badly designed. (The 80/90cms tend to be slightly better in design as the dish/wind area is bigger.) In fluctuating winds (especially around the equinox periods) it can begin to oscillate the dish and can actually shake the nuts and bolts loose. In effect, the dish will be moving on and off satellite rapidly - it will cause blocking on a picture but the data reception will be badly affected especially if it is a multicast download on EON. But with the low price of dishes/LNB's it is probably easier to have a separate dish/LNB for each satellite.
Regards...jmcc0 -
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