Time to face some Facts! :(

MS

The Balckout came and went. [FACT] Out of ALL the people on here a lot showed great interest but the fact is only a handfull actually took part. [FACT] There is only a few people doing all the work and are not really appreciated. [FACT] There is no Follow Up and even less people to take part in it. [FACT] Eircon see us as a total Minority and ignore us. Less than 100 people in Dublin .... 4 people in Athlone ?? [FACT] We are going NOWHERE! unless we make a Stance! This was suggested by nahdoic

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Wouldn't it just be great, if we could organise, some exact day and time, to protest peacefully and respectfully by standing outside Eircom's HQ with plackards demanding that FRIACO to be implemented, and how the absence of FRIACO is stagnating and destroying this country's future economy. If you had a group of at least 100 people there from 2:00 to 4:00 someday, IMO it would give this campaign the media exposure and coverage it truly deserves.
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I have already posted this in another post but its being read and ignored. So i am again bringing it to everyones attention.... this is what NEEDS to be done. We need to be united and not just say it. We need to SHOW Eircon we are not going to be ignored! A few people here have done WONDERS! They have mads a LOT of difference. Why not back them up ? Once again i quote nahdoic

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The black out was a huge success. The front page of wired is HUGE but still I don't know about you, but I did expect a bigger turn out with even more media coverage. Before going to Grafton Street on Friday I was expecting/hoping to see a crowd of like maybe 100 people all dressed in black, waving plackards around. Something like that, i think, would get on the 6:01 news. But instead it was just a small group of less than 5 people for most of the day, and around 5pm or so there was a group of about 10 people. Not terribly 6:01 newsworthy, IMO.
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There is a lot i have left out but only becaouse i dont want to make this post Totally Huge! some for and against. But ye all know what i mean so twist it n e way ye like but the simple fact is.... We need to show some support .... not in less than 100 but in 1,000's


MS

rymus

put a couple of hundred people in front of the Eircom HQ and what will Eircom think? Probably something along the lines of "Ohh look, those lads that were at the top of grafton st are in front of the building, who cares".

Its not like you can throw red paint on Eircom execs. as they enter the building. Cos that would get u noticed (as well as arrested). Protests are too easy to ignore on Eircoms part and I do get the feeling that they must be looking on having a good old laugh. Unless membership grew to about 150,000 overnight I seriously doubt that Eircom would sit up and take notice. As they have demonstrated in the past, they dont give a flying **** about what some little group of people thinks. The only thing that can make them feel an uncomfortable burning sensation at this point is another telco pressing them for what we want. Either another telco or the ODTR anyway. Nobody is going near them because they wont talk to anyone that wants to access their network as Esat did with No limits.

Unless the ODTR gets the thumbscrews out we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as reasoning with Eircom is concerned. So were just about down to government or God. By the government we've got at the moment, I'll just keep praying that some day I wake up in a world where there was never a company called Eircom.

It is quite likely that the whole of Ireland will be linked via wireless before any major progress occurs. I mean Eircom are constantly taking a step back and 're-evaluating'. ADSL is gone back into trials... Lads, ye trialled it already - it works - get on with the frikkin rollout.

Right thats my early morning rant out of the way, now back to work.

NeilF

Originally posted by rymus
I'll just keep praying that some day I wake up in a world where there was never a company called Eircom.

And I think that because IrelandOffline exists that day will come sooner. And that's all that matters.

[FACT]Out of ALL the people on here a lot showed great interest but the fact is only a handfull actually took part.

Not true. I think you’re getting confused about what the Blackout was about. It was about taking down websites and not using the Internet for a day, both as a protest about the state of affairs and to inform users who may not have heard of us. Many sites were taken down, many more didn’t use the Internet. Boards.ie shutdown for the day. Several thousand now know of us. Is that a handful? Everyone who took down a site, avoided the net, saw a Blackout page or got a flyer ‘took part’ as far as I’m concerned.

[FACT] There is only a few people doing all the work and are not really appreciated.

Not true. The committee were democratically elected and they were also, as I recall, given the power to add people to the committee themselves if they needed more people. This has been done on at least two occasions (dahamsta and Fergus) to date and has been effective. Elana decided to stand at the top of Grafton Street as a late addition to the Blackout day activities. I doubt I would do that in a month of Sundays. Nevertheless I found her at lunchtime just to say ‘thanks’ personally for the work she has done. Just as I’m sure the membership would like to say thanks for the publicity that was generated in Athlone. I’m sure most of the membership of IrelandOffline do support the committee and appreciate the work they, and others, are doing.

[FACT] There is no Follow Up and even less people to take part in it.

You could camp outside Eircom HQ every Friday if you wanted to but you’re right, not a lot would take part because they know it would have little effect.

[FACT] Eircon see us as a total Minority and ignore us. Less than 100 people in Dublin .... 4 people in Athlone ??

Eircom see us as someone to be respected. It is well known that all interested parties visit this board. They would not be doing so if we were not a force to be reckoned with. Taking Eircom: I suspect they would have preferred to not attend the seminar but the PR damage from not attending would be greater than attending.

[FACT] We are going NOWHERE! unless we make a Stance!

Think about what you’ve just said. Are you saying that unless the committee follow your course of action we are doing nothing? The idea of a protest has been mentioned in this and other threads and the reception has been pretty lukewarm. I like the approach the committee are currently taking. It is about being professional, educating people along the way, talking directly to the players, getting good press and publicity and acting like a proper lobby group. The worst thing we could do at this stage is turn into an anti-Eircom protest group. It’s just what they are waiting for us to do.

nahdoic

OK fair enough, becoming a pure anti-Eircom protest group would be the worst thing we could do. But we have to face facts. Why don't we have FRIACO? It's because of Eircom. Short and simple. That's the only reason. Esat who are losing a fortune on their no-limits service would be overjoyed to have FRIACO. But they can't get it. Why? Because Eircom don't want FRIACO. It's not about being anti-Eircom, it's about educating the public about what FRIACO is, and how important it is for this country's future economy. How it will cultivate a net savvy nation, supply a truly skilled and keen labour force with real experience and knowledge of the net (without Esat no-limits i would be a complete net ignoramus. No-limits allowed me incredible freedom to learn so much about the net.), increase e-commerce activity, generate a strong demand for more expensive broadband technologies (like ADSL and cable modems). Without FRIACO IMO this country is in very bad shape.

There is an extraordinary amount of people out there who are oblivious to the words FRIACO or Ireland Offline. They have absolutely no idea who we are, or what we are campaigning for. They are brainwashed by a powerful PR machine and think this is just the way things are (5p for 5 minutes, 6p for 6 ...). You dial up to the net and you pay per minute. So they watch their clocks, make sure they check their mail and hang up after 5 minutes or maybe jump over to ryanair for a sec. No time for anything else.

It's not about getting Eircom's attention. They already know we exist. We have to get the message out to these people and generate true great pressure from the public for FRIACO. The only way I can think of doing this, is to have a large respectful and peaceful protest outside Eircom's HQ with at least 100 people, with placards showing the disgusting imbalance between net costs here in Rep. of Ireland and N. Ireland. I believe something like this would give us the publicity that this organisation deservers and needs.

Fergus

Protesting against private businesses will not make them do something against their interests. Look at BNFL/Sellafield for example.

The problem is the government. The weapon is legislation. The solution is widespread understanding of the need for affordable telecommunications.

MS

Im not getting confused about what the Blackout was all about. And i do know it served its purpose well.

Everyone who took down a site, avoided the net, saw a Blackout page or got a flyer ‘took part’ as far as I’m concerned.

This is very true but it is still im my opinion only a handfull of the many 1,000's of people that could have taken part. And if a handfull can acheive so much in so little a time.... well what could be done or acheived if an all out effort from 1,000's of people were to take place ? It only took 1 Student to stand in front of a Tank to hold up a whole Army. But it will take an Army to Stop Eircom being such £%& £&_'s.


You could camp outside Eircom HQ every Friday if you wanted to but you’re right, not a lot would take part because they know it would have little effect.

Only becaouse a handfull of people were there. But if 1,000's were there. I think it would have a big effect.

Eircom see us as someone to be respected. It is well known that all interested parties visit this board. They would not be doing so if we were not a force to be reckoned with. Taking Eircom: I suspect they would have preferred to not attend the seminar but the PR damage from not attending would be greater than attending.

Eircom attended....not out of Respect for us but only becaouse of the PR damage it might have done to them if they didnt. Please do not use Eircom and respect in the same sentence if they actually knew what the word ment they would not treat us like dirt.

We are going NOWHERE! unless we make a Stance! (MS)

Think about what you’ve just said. Are you saying that unless the committee follow your course of action we are doing nothing?

I did think about it and im sorry you picked it up that way. But then again your allowed your opinion just like im allowed mine.

I like the approach the committee are currently taking. It is about being professional, educating people along the way, talking directly to the players, getting good press and publicity and acting like a proper lobby group.

I have to agree too. But i feel its just no use pokeing at a Brick Wall with a Pen, sooner or later you will have to use a Sledge Hammer to get through it.


MS

NeilF

Originally posted by MS
what could be done or acheived if an all out effort from 1,000's of people were to take place ?
.....
But it will take an Army to Stop Eircom being such £%& £&_'s.
.....
But i feel its just no use pokeing at a Brick Wall with a Pen, sooner or later you will have to use a Sledge Hammer to get through it.

Another thought that struck me today was that everything to date has been a success. Organising a protest and having only a handful show would be a PR disaster for us. The general public just aren't aware of how bad things are and it will take time to generate significant public interest in broadband and FRIACO. And because this is a subject that can get bogged down in jargon and statistics very quickly we may never generate enough interest among the ordinary users for a protest to be effective.

Still, if the tales of their financial problems are true Eircom's brick wall will crack from the inside out

nahdoic

Organising a protest and having only a handful show would be a PR disaster for us

No it wouldn't. It just wouldn't get any notice or be mentioned in any newspaper, and no one would really care.

I went to the first official Ireland Offline meeting, where we officially elected the committee, there was about 70 or so people at that, and I went to the Net Imperative seminar, there were well over 100 Ireland Offline supporters at that. Now that was a while ago, and from the Black Out (which I also went to) I am sure our membership has grown substantially. I am getting really tired of saying this ... and I am sure people are probably getting tired of reading this ... but if we want to get on the 6.1 news, and generate the media coverage this campaign truly deserves and needs all we have to do is, rally our membership, and have a protest with at least 100 people. Imagine a group of 1,000 people standing outside Dail Eirean demanding that the Communications Bill be passed this year, or a group of 1,000 people standing outside Eircom HQ's demanding that FRIACO be implemented. That would get noticed ... and put a lot of pressure on all parties involved and get the message out to Mr. Joe Average out there ... but *sigh* ... i am tired of saying this, cos people on this forum, for whatever reason are just ignoring it and just aren't interested for some reason, I don't know why. It's what IMO needs to be done. Oh well, I've tried my best.

o_donnel_abu

First of all, I'm sorry that I haven't been posting here for a while but as the rest of the committee knows, I've been almost totally out of circulation for the last 6 weeks - as someone pointed out elsewhere, the committee are doing this on a voluntary/part-time basis and we do 'have a crust to earn'

Number of points:

1. The numbers game: Our subscribed membership currently stands about 1280. Only a small percentage of any group will get involved in real action so the possibility of getting 1000+ out on a protest is unrealistic.
   
   1280 out of all the users in Ireland might not seem a lot, but bearing in mind that we are only up and running 6 months, I think it is a highly creditable sucess rate. Also, even more important that the number of members is the quality of the membership and IMO that very high quality is reflected in the things we have achieved to date and the level of discussion on this board - don't forget that this forum has been a 'must watch' one for the Telco's and ODTR for some time now.
   
2. MS, we don't have a sledgehammer to crack the wall but we certainly have something stronger than a pen
   
   Don't forget the people we have met and the impact we have created, not least the amount of press coverage we have achieved. We have been featured in all the main newspapers, Elana and I have both been on Five-Seven Live and also the numerous interviews on other radio stations. Six months ago, if we had called for a one day stoppage, do you think anyone would have taken us seriously? Do you think Eircom would have bothered giving a response in the press?
   
3. I know the lack of progress on achieving tangible results is frustrating, but we just have to keep at it. One important thing is that the press now sees us as the 'voice of the user' and we have to capitalise on this in the weeks ahead as the Eircom fiasco takes a further turn with today's press release on Valentia being broke. (I know that's not exactly what they said but that's what it boils down to )
   
4. The other area we have to keep working on is politicians, something that we are trying to work on 'out of the limelight'. Speculation is that the latest events with another Donegal man could bring the general election forward - get your lobbying hats ready everyone!
   

Martin Harran
Chairman, IOFFL

chernobyl

But the fact remians Martin that IOFFL has achieved none of its objectives, but thats ok, its only been 6 months but surely you can see that £ircom will provide us with the current standard until they are left with "no out".

Given £ircom's current financial situation even if they were forced to do something they have not got the money to do it..ahh!!

FRIACO is the only realistic service that £ircom can provide but we wont even see that this christmas even though £ircom made many overtures that by that time, it would be a reality.

i do hope they go bust...please.

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by chernobyl
surely you can see that £ircom will provide us with the current standard until they are left with "no out".

I agree totally, Eircom will only give something when they are forced into it.

We cannot directly force them into it but we can keep the pressure on through events like our seminar and blackout, keeping the media interested and educating the politicians about how dire the state of access really is in Ireland.

Martin

jmason

MS, you need to talk to some lefties Getting 100 people out to protest on the streets is really, really difficult (unless the Socialist Workers get involved again that is

Fundamentally there's very few people in Ireland who would care enough about these issues to take time off, troop into their nearest city and stand around for a few hours waving placards. The people who support IO just aren't that type I'd reckon. They'd prefer to protest on IRC

So I'd reckon a turnout of 100 placard-waving IOers would be pretty exceptional.

MS

First of all WOW! Martin its nice to see u alive and well and still kicking

as someone pointed out elsewhere, the committee are doing this on a voluntary/part-time basis and we do 'have a crust to earn'

A LOT of people are in the same boat Martin but if we all sat down and took a 'Part Time' approche to IOFFL we would be no where further on by now ( No Insult ment ok)


things we have achieved to date

Apart from the obovious! What did we acheive ?

One important thing is that the press now sees us as the 'voice of the user'

Ooops! Ok next ?

I know the lack of progress on achieving tangible results is frustrating, but we just have to keep at it.
we don't have a sledgehammer to crack the wall but we certainly have something stronger than a pen!!

Such as ? Eg. a Crain with a HUGE Ball and Chain ? hehehe


Sorry mate i dont mean to sound mean. Im just letting off some steam.


MS

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by MS
First of all WOW! Martin its nice to see u alive and well and still kicking

Very much so

A LOT of people are in the same boat Martin but if we all sat down and took a 'Part Time' approche to IOFFL we would be no where further on by now ( No Insult ment ok)

No offence taken as I for one know how supportive you have been in many ways since this campaign started (we will get that pint of blackstuff one of these days - sooner than you might think ).

I'm not sure, however, what you are getting at here. Employ someone fulltime ?


[

Apart from the obovious! What did we acheive ?

Again, not sure what you mean if it is obvious

Let me turn this around - what else, realistically, could we have achieved?

Sorry mate i dont mean to sound mean. Im just letting off some steam.

No problem, we are all very frustrated at the nonsensical approach being taken by Eircom. When I think about the whole Eircom saga, the way ordinary shareholders got screwed (and I speak as one who did not buy shares), the bonuses that the directors are now getting when it turns out that the buyers don't even have the money and are looking to hike prices to finance the deal, Eircom's short-sighted, selfish attitude towards net development due to their stranglehold on the development of telecoms in this country, it terrifies me as much as it disgusts me.

Sorry for the rant - just let's you seee how frusrated I am too.

Martin