New ideas needed!!

takeesattocourt

I think the blackout was great and congratulations to everyone.Also the same goes in general for all Ireland offline members efforts in general.But also I think new ideas should keep coming,we can debate all day long but what is needed as well is pressure on the politicians,telcos etc
So heres one from me!
***just an idea here but possibly it might start off a thought process that might lead somewhere....it goes like this a hell of a lot of people feel scammed by what was done regarding the eircom shares that is a lot of angry people,is it worth thinking about linking a few issues together in order to form one big yet seperate pressure groups,keep your own issues but by mentioning a few other relevent issues and getting other groups to do the same ,we would be letting the powers that be know they are dealing with thousands upon thousands of people not just a few.
Obviously I reckon nothing political just consumer issues,the director of consumer affairs office certainly couldn't give a **** all the dozens of times I have been in contact with them and diddo as regards the odtr so maybe it is time for forming alliances with certain other groups in order to get what we want.
Did you ever see how powerful a lobby group the farmers are ?and how they always seem to get whatever they want,thats because they are powerful and the politicians know it.
Anyway maybe it's a stupid idea,maybe not but it might just have possibilities!!
If any body wants to they can hurl abuse at me but new ideas on how to get what we want are needed,we've got to try every which way possible to put pressure on!

chernobyl

Originally posted by takeesattocourt
a hell of a lot of people feel scammed by what was done regarding the eircom shares that is a lot of angry people,

They lost money because the shares went down, they were not scammed, i made 19% on my £5000.[its all gone now..bah!]


ty for that Eircom.
:)

MS

LOL! For someone who said:

Origionally posted by takeesattocourt

From here on out,I am going to change my handle to "phantom of the board" as like him I will only be able to make the odd ghostly appearance but I will be around.

Nice GHOST SUIT! mate Welcome abord


MS

billy the squid

Im probably going to get lambasted for this but i dont care cos the rest of ye are miles away from me and cant do anything to me

I agree with your idea of teaming up with other pressure groups to get like your example of getting some assistance from €ircom shareholders who got screwed.

I was thinking that that in order to get people like the ODTR to get their priorities right that we should get some of those involved in "free radio" involved.

While the lack of proper information infrastructure is slowly and silently killing our economy the ODTR are chacing some harmless country music lover all over Limerick City at the moment just because he wants others to hear his music on the radio.

I dont think free radio can damage the economy half as much as the current state of our telecom network will and it necessary for the ODTR to put their foot down on telecom companies who are dragging their heels.

Another idea would be to get those interested in education involved as it would certainly be beneficial for those people at local VECs and places like that if they could teach computer and internet skills to people making them ready for our starved employment economy without having to pay massive overheads which will no doubt make them reluctant to invest in such courses.

Or just came up with another Idea remember that guy that sent that hash to the dail ... what if everyone sent their phone bill to say the minister for communications or something like that

Gordon

One of the main reasons I hear about Ireland's second rate telecommunications systems is the physical layout.

Apparently in Greystones some time ago there was a need for new underground infrastructure - gas, electricity, water and telecoms cables. What the individual contractors were to do was to dig up the ground and lay the relevant cables etc. The problem was the local council. The way that planning worked was that any contractor that wanted to dig the ground up would submit their planning and get approval.
The problem was that •One contractor at one time only could dig the road up.

This meant that only the electrical contractor could dig up the road and then they had to fill the road up again!!. The gas contractor could then go in and dig up the road... do their stuff and ... fill in the hole in the road. The same went for the water and the telecoms etc.

In any first rate country it happens that when a hole is dug on a road for new substructure -every relevant service is installed at the same dig.

This proves that one of the main problems is local government, beaurocracy and red tape.

Legislation needs changed and businesses are thirsty for improvement.

Apparently.

NeilF

Originally posted by takeesattocourt
a lot of people feel scammed by what was done regarding the eircom shares that is a lot of angry people,is it worth thinking about linking a few issues together in order to form one big yet seperate pressure groups,keep your own issues but by mentioning a few other relevent issues and getting other groups to do the same ,we would be letting the powers that be know they are dealing with thousands upon thousands of people not just a few.

What scam? "The value of shares may fall as well as rise." I personally have no sympathy for Eircom shareholders. They knew what they were getting into and allowed greed to overtake common sense as the shares rose in price. As chernobyl said, you could have made a tidy sum out of them if you were clued in! Whether the state should have floated Eircom is another matter.

I don't think we should get into this "enemy of an enemy" business because it would only dilute our power. IrelandOffline has already got an excellent reputation and smart people. If we stay focused and professional we will get what we want.

NeilF

Originally posted by Gordon
One of the main reasons I hear about Ireland's second rate telecommunications systems is the physical layout.

Yup. The Institution of Engineers of Ireland had their annual conference recently and Etain Doyle was a speaker at it. Planning is quite a big problem apparently and it featured in her speech, which is at the end of this page, and I presume on the ODTR's website.

The problem seems to be a local one, rather than a legislatative one, so I presume she was having a go at the civil engineers and planners in the audience in the hope they might get their act together.

takeesattocourt

This is to ms,yes I meant what I said,I have been around the boards for a long time as a lot of users know,I decided today to try and kick around a few ideas,I am not going to be posting too often after today and if I do again I will not be referring to exactly what is or isn't going on in the background.
As a matter of fact I did reregister my name but it won't work for some reason,so I'll have to contact admin.I thought we were all on the same side here?
If you are bothered about my presence here,don't be,I won't be posting too often as I've said in a thread previous.You won't be hearing too much from me again for a while.
Like I said,hurl abuse,that does not matter once the main purpose is acheived,talk,kick around ideas,put pressure on but don't just spend time fighting with each other,argue out the good and bad but at the end of the day remember we all want the same thing I think?
And Chernoby on telecom shares I just used them as an example,the whole point being come up with ideas!I am glad you made some money on it,I didn't bother to buy any and I am glad I didn't.
A hell of a lot people who knew nothing about shares bought them thinking that because our government was hyping things up that there was somewhat of a "sure thing".It's a sad state of affairs when our whole government turns into nothing short of street pedlars,trying to convince people to invest in shares that would mostly benifit the government at the end of the day!Could you imagine Bill Clinton(When he was in office) going on national television and telling people about this fantastic share offer in at&t,the world would laugh and probably say only in America.
Whats Bertie and the boys going to do next start off a chain of betting shops "bet your bollocks with Bertie"chain.
It doesn't matter whether at the end of the day the outcome,as regards the issue here,the stock market is a gamble but the promblem I find with the whole eircom fiasco is our government the same people involved in tribunals,scandals etc basically got involved in promoting gambling.
Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that?
Anyway it really is goodbye for now,if anybody wants to abuse me or anything further please email me as I can't check in on the boards every night.

MS

Ok this is to takeesattocourt:

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If you are bothered about my presence here,don't be

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Woooooooooooooo Hold on there. Take my post in the manner it was posted With a and a

Let me put my reply a different way. It dont matter what name you call yourself. And AGAIN! Welcome Abord
In other words its nice to see you posting to the board.


MS

Delphi91

Originally posted by Gordon
...•One contractor at one time only could dig the road up....

As I understand this, the reason for it is that every contractor that digs a hole in the ground, has to pay the Corpo/Co. Council for the "privilege" of doing it.

So, look at it from the Corpo/Co. Council point of view - it's better to have contractors working separately at £x,000 each time, than everybody doing it while the first hole is open.

Anyway, considering the way some utility companies work in this country, what are the chances of having 4-5 utility companies ready to do a job ALL at the same time????

Mike

Baz_

Originally posted by Delphi91


As I understand this, the reason for it is that every contractor that digs a hole in the ground, has to pay the Corpo/Co. Council for the "privilege" of doing it.

So, look at it from the Corpo/Co. Council point of view - it's better to have contractors working separately at £x,000 each time, than everybody doing it while the first hole is open.

My g/f worked for the cc this summer and most of her time was spent dealing with complaints, now obviously if a certain road is dug up four times a year your going to get a certain amount of complaints. This means that you are using a certain number of man hours dealing with peoples complaints, without them man hours having to be paid for, it would probably be a better idea just to let the 4 contractors use the same hole (probably).

Originally posted by Delphi91


Anyway, considering the way some utility companies work in this country, what are the chances of having 4-5 utility companies ready to do a job ALL at the same time????

Mike

On this point however if you say to the companies, "be ready for work on this road on the xth of x or you will not be able to lay cables until next year" or something to that effect their will be a good chance that they will be ready.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by NeilF
Originally posted by takeesattocourt
a lot of people feel scammed by what was done regarding the eircom shares that is a lot of angry people,is it worth thinking about linking a few issues together in order to form one big yet seperate pressure groups,keep your own issues but by mentioning a few other relevent issues and getting other groups to do the same ,we would be letting the powers that be know they are dealing with thousands upon thousands of people not just a few.

There was no scam. Just a spin job on a lot of greedy people who figured they could make a fast buck.

Also this issue of share value is part of what is screwing up the broadband rollout. Eircom are too obsessed with short term issues that affect their share value to invest, and Fianna Fail's numbers are interrelated to this too.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by takeesattocourt
But also I think new ideas should keep coming,we can debate all day long but what is needed as well is pressure on the politicians,telcos etc

Meetings # Regional ## Topical ## Business involvement ## sponsorship ## educational advertisements ## . . and more of what was originally planned but has never never been implemented. :rolleyes:

Gunn4r

Idea:

Irelandoffline t-shirts / stickers / fundraising events , sell em , make money, put ad in the paper shaming govt ....

Dustaz

Idea:
Let the Ireland Offline committee do their job.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Dustaz
Idea:
Let the Ireland Offline committee do their job.

Idea:
Shut up and let people post their ideas and criticisms without your reactionary attitude.

So what exactly IS their job ? and what exactly are they doing right NOW ?

dahamsta

and what exactly are they doing right NOW?

Can't speak for everyone else, but at the moment I'm doing some of my own work - I got absolutely zip done in the past fortnight - and squeezing in the odd interview when I can afford the time. Ok?

adam

Baz_

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man


Idea:
Shut up and let people post their ideas and criticisms without your reactionary attitude.

So what exactly IS their job ? and what exactly are they doing right NOW ?

Smokin and chewin man (SACM for short), the problem with committees is that they usually don't have a dictatorial, or authocratical hieararchy (there is no one person in charge). This means unfortunately that the decision making process is considerably slowed down, and this seems like a valid concern, however, most of the time people are on a committee for a reason, and that reason without fail is always because they know their subject matter. This means that although the decision making process is considerably slower, the decision made is usually always a good one. If you compare this with one person deciding unilaterally what to do, then that person is more likely to make a mistake in the decision making process if he doesn't have anyone to bounce his ideas off of.

At the moment the IOffline committee are thinking, I don't know about what and I don't even care, but they have already said that they will be busy and won't be able to talk much, as to their function, it is self defined by them possibly on an ongoing basis. But as far as I understand, it is to lobby politicians telcos etc... to try and reverse the trend currently ongoing, and set a new one hopefully (broadband).

Now you can if you want, if you are bored by inaction take action by yourself, but what you can't claim is the backing of IOffline unless you actually have it, they have a rep to maintain and the better it is maintained the stronger their position becomes.

This brings me nicely onto my last point and that is that I agree with your first one. Dustaz the people want to be involved its not nice to try to keep them shtum they must keep the momentum going keep up the ideas and most importantly their enthusiasm. What I think would be a good idea would be a militant wing (per se) of IOffline, and by militant I mean people who are constantly putting into action fresh ideas, like tshirts, lobbying, leaflets, anything and everything, while the committee make the real decisions. Now there should also be a liaison between the two so that they don't become distanced and their aims dont diverge, but I think that a constantly active wing would be a great idea.

Baz_

disConnected

So what exactly IS their job ? and what exactly are they doing right NOW ?

So I guess you have been at the seminar... and you handed out at least 1000 leaflets on Friday the 16th... No??? Why not???

I don't believe that we should allow some couch-potato who probably has done not one bit for IOFFL to start using rude language here at the boards. And on top of this we should not let him getting away with insulting the Board-Members of IOFFL by accusing them of not doing their job!
Let me tell you those Ladies and Gentlemen do a fantastic job!!!! - And they do this on top of their normal daytime-job.
Hands up - who else of you would show the dedication to sacrifice at least 5-10 hours per week (just a rough guess by me, this figure could be easily higher for some people here) without ever receiving a word of thanks or -god forbid- even money???

So instead of telling them how to do the job they are doing you should start asking how you could help them out...

I hope anybody joins me in condemning the bullsh*t that was posted by smokin' an' chewin' man and joins in in acknowledging the great work done by the Board-Members.

Thanks,

disConnected

davros

Originally posted by NeilF


What scam? "The value of shares may fall as well as rise." I personally have no sympathy for Eircom shareholders. They knew what they were getting into ...

You are wrong. I am (was) an Eircom shareholder. I didn't care if the shares fell since I intended to hold them long-term. I did not imagine I would be forced to sell them at a significant loss. This possibility was not mentioned at the time of flotation. It is unfair to blame the thousands of first-time share buyers for not knowing about compulsory buy-outs. Technically it may not be a scam but it sure feels like one.

It is also unfair to characterise Eircom shareholders as 'greedy' as another poster on this thread did. I am a telecom professional with a keen interest in national policy and communications development. I bought my shares to own a slice of Eircom, not to make a profit.

chernobyl

Originally posted by davros


I did not imagine I would be forced to sell them at a significant loss.

Newsflash : Headline : "Irish people intending on buying shares now stipulate that this clause must be entered into any intending contract"

Article 007, Clause 5, Subsection 2.2

"i need a crystal ball, that can @ least see 4 years into the future and may choose to use it for "other" purposes for financial gain"


The clause was rejected.

MS

Origionally posted by disConnected

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I hope anybody joins me in condemning the bullsh*t that was posted by smokin' an' chewin' man and joins in in acknowledging the great work done by the Board-Members.

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Hey you might look like John Denver but i wont hold it against you on this one mate I totally agree that this guy know's &*(_&^)
but as for a bull**** speaker ill give him.... ermm trying to be modest here 999999999 out of 10... hows that


MS