science in primary school

Hannah

this is sort of a spin off from the science and school thread,
does anyone else think that science should be taught in primary school?
i firmly believe that the basic principles of science can and should be taught to young children.
i'm not talking Einstein's theory of relativity here, just stuff like a bit of human anatomy, cell structure, measuring volumes of irregular shaped objects, the idea of atoms and molecules, that sort of thing. A lot of scientific principles can be proven by experiment, kids could do these experiments themselves, i'm not an expert but surely kids love that kind of thing?
maybe some primary schools do teach science, but why isn't it an obligatary part of the curriculum for every school?

Bob the Unlucky Octopus

Interesting question...fortuantely enough there's a simple enough answer To learn even the most basic of scientific concepts, basic skills like mathematics (times tables and such) need to be well-grasped by students. Though "science interest" practicals and teaching demonstrations are already well-used in many schools afaik, I remember a liquid N2 demonstration at my primary school waaaay back, as well as a lung capacity praccy. Primary school is a bit early for that sort of thing usually, we just had an enthusiastic teacher I guess, which is why I retain such a strong interest in science to this day. Can't be a bad idea in some ways I suppose...

Occy

nesf

From personal experience, I've lectured for the CTYI, it is possible for kids in primary school to grasp science. The problem arrises, as Occy said, with the maths. Most of the kids I taught, could multipy and divide, but while they were very smart, they had alot of trouble with algebra, i.e. a*b=c and so on. The concepts involved were too abstract and dry for them to grasp fully. Now that said, stuff like gravity and forces, when discussed in a purely practical sense, they had no problem with. Specific values and problems were no trouble for them, it was only when one introduced a general case, that they had conceptional problems.

Illkillya

in USA we did loads of science as a class in schools... I remember knowing the names of the parts of all the major systems and organs in the body (we knew more about the heart and circulatory system than most of the leaving cert biology students when i saw the results of their xmas exam on that subject). We knew the names of most of the main bones in the body... and had no bother learning them because of the good teaching methods they had.

We learned about physics and more mathematical science in more roundabout methods, eg, building the tallest tower possible out of tightly rolled newspaper which formed beams for construction. You say a lot of children wouldn't be able to grasp the algebra and stuff, and thats true, but there are some who can, and there isn't much in Ireland to enlighten these people, whereas in USA we had Odyssey of the Mind, and maths teams and stuff like that.

We had our own class garden in the school, so we knew all about how to grow vegetables. We knew about geotropism, phototropism and all that stuff they do in Junior Cert science, because we learned through experiments, and because we devised these experiments ourselves, we actually knew what was happening. We had our own behive, which was in the classroom, but opened out into the courtyard so there weren't bees flying around the room We also had our own fish tank, we caught the fish ourselves on a trip to the beach, so we knew all about the variety of fish you would find in the shallow waters around where we lived. Which fish ate which fish, which ones were most frail, pipefish don't get along with crabs, etc.

We did history and geography much more efficiently also, I can't remember off the top of my head much of what else we did, but I still remember most things, like which way the blood flows through the heart, can draw a map of the world fairly accurately with most of the capital cities, etc.

Science can be too advanced for primary school pupils, just as it can be too advanced for secondary school pupils if you were really look at whats going on. But people have to start somewhere, look at how they teach Irish for example, the children don't need to know all about the grammar once they can understand whats happening to Lúlú and Micí. I think most of junior cert science is a joke, and primary school students could have no problem at all in learning it given some good teaching methods (which also make people really interested in the subject and maybe even school).

seamus

It'd be very tough to teach it explicitly, especially seeing as primary school is where we learn the basics. Maybe physics could be done simply through practicals, not actually asking the kids to do some work, but demonstrating something, and then giving a dumbed down(but essentially correct) version of why this happens. This would help them understand why other things around them may happen, simply by applying what they already know(the very thing that causes the main problem in AI).

Biology could be explained through explaining, again basically, the whole cell theory, and about the basics of body functions, and I think ecology should be a big one, 'cos that's an absolute synch, and involves cuddly animals, and nature walks - stuff which the kids already love. Chemistry should be avoided at all costs for primary schoolers. I know plenty of college students who still have major trouble understanding chemistry

Of course what I would see as the main problem with Physics is the whole maths part, and as was said, the algebra. I was especially good at maths, and could never understand why many people, especially many girls(not sexist - it's a fact ladies!) had trouble understanding concepts like multiplication and division, so teaching algebra would just fúck them up worse and make them hate maths even more.

Hannah

i'm in sort of the same boat as you iky, i spent most of my primary education in a british school and we seemed to use a similar system. i can remember learning about bones, their names and sturctures etc on that particular topic we also did about the chemical and organic components of bone, we did that bone in vinegar experiment (which, as far as i can remember does not appear until the LC course in ireland) aged 9-10, no one had any problems. Also we were taught about movement and the various joints e.g. ball and socket etc.
we also studied ecology, photosynthesis and tropisms in plants, we did those experiments using cress seeds , zoology and taxonomy. We also learned about atoms and molecules, mostly just the major concepts, e.g. everything is made up of tiny indivisible particles again aged 9-10 i can't remember anyone ever having problems with that stuff. As for fortgetting about chemistry, i think that we should be aiming in the opposite direction since, from my own experience i find that it's the things that i leared about when i was younger that i tend to remember far more clearly. I think it's important for children to familiarise themselves with various concepts, systems, methods etc as young as possible.
i just began this thread to find out if anyone else thought that science should be brought in at a primary school level in ireland.
i personally feel very strongly that it should, and that excuses like there isn't a high enough standard of maths are exactly that- excuses. I do agree that the level of maths is appalling, not just in ireland but also particularly in the uk, i'm not sure about the rest of the world, but i don't think that a high level of maths is required for a basic understanding of scientific principles which can certainly be achieved with out the introduction of algebra.

Science.ie

I believe that part of the problem may be that our Primary School teachers lack the budget, training and resources to teach science to kids.

Primary Science Day (takes place this Tuesday 13th November) is a step in the right direction as it enables children to take part in simple and fun hands-on science activities. This encourages them to take a positive attitude towards science in later years, when they are more able to grasp complicated maths and concepts.

The theme for Primary Science Day this year is Magnetism. A resource pack containing information, fun worksheets and a variety of magnets has been circulated to all primary schools.

Therefore the teachers are also getting the support, teaching material, and background information that they need to teach the kids science, pitched at the correct level.

And yes, the kids do love it!!! It would be great if this type of science day could take place more often.

More Info on Ireland's Primary Science Day

Jo