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Ireland, Should it Be united

  • 21-10-2001 9:07pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭


    Your Views please :)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭ConUladh


    You should set a poll

    Personally I've heard enough rants but I'd be interested to see what it comes down to in numbers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    I think they should make it an independant state of the EU. Then remove all funding from it that Ireland+England give until they cop the f' on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭Enygma


    I'm with Hobbes there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    I'd belong to the "they can keep it" group. In a referendum to unite Ireland, I'd vote against. There's no way I'd want to see that milestone hanging around our necks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    after starting the topic on hating the english, this is gonna look a bit funny, but id agree with both hobbes and jaden.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    I've come down with a severe case of apathy...

    Al.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Magwitch


    Nice ideal but when one thinks about it, it is completely impractible and one thinks some more and it it seems like a bad idea. We would have to have Ian Paisley and his oposite numbers in our everyday politics! I don't think I could stomach a few decades of Loyalists protesting on O'Connel street for their "civil rights". HOI! :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,309 ✭✭✭✭Bard


    Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
    after starting the topic on hating the english, this is gonna look a bit funny, but id agree with both hobbes and jaden.

    ...and I'd agree with that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭logic1


    I hate this idea and/or thread.

    .logic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭Shinji


    I'm with Hobbes on this one. Nobody bloody well wants it; even the armchair republicans know deep down that having a united Ireland would be a hell of a lot more trouble than it works, and the British sure as hell want rid of the place.

    The Irish economy is walking on eggshells as it is, without massive political instability and terrorist action on top of that.

    In a referendum, I'd vote against a united Ireland. "Nice idea, won't work."


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    I should point out, I would vote against a united Ireland but only if N.I. is also not united with England.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Let me see can we trade in Northern Ireland for the Channel Islands please ??? Then no probs I'd vote for reunification, otherwise no way we have enough problems down here already, I'm with Hobbes, WWMan (yikes) & Jaden (double Yikes) on this as well.

    Gandalf.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭Aspro


    You couldn't force a united Ireland without causing another civil war - more death and destruction - a redivision of the North - a Bosnia type situation.

    So long as ordinary people in Northern Ireland are more influenced by what divides them than by what unites them i.e. fighting for decent services, health, education, workers rights - then there will never be peace.

    And all the sectarian parties on both sides of the divide will do nothing to change that because they all only see themselves as representing "their own".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭azezil


    Ideally i'd love to see a united Ireland but as someone pointed out if i had to listen to Ian Pasley :eek: i'd go insane n have to kill the biotch! ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭klong


    I'd like to see a united Ireland, but it'd never really be united. At least another 30 years of "trouble" if it ever happens, i reckon. We couldn't afford it anyway....we'd need at least another 5- 10000 or so soldiers and gardai and untold billions of euros to keep the country from turning into a Mad Max movie.
    Who'd want that?
    Even if Paisley is bumped off, like Bin Laden, there'd be plenty more to take his place.
    I'm 16, and i can't see it happening in my lifetime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭p


    I think that the best option,
    and what really will probably happen, is that like Scotland and Wales NI will 'devolve' and become more self-reliant, it already is a good bit now. Forge a few more links with RoI. Perhaps more Ireland teams, like with rugby and basically end up with a country in the UK that has strong links with Ireland.

    It's a compromise, if either side gets exactly what they want their will be trouble, but if they both get a little then peace can survive.

    my 2c

    - Kevin


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 729 ✭✭✭popinfresh


    I think that a United Ireland would be great. But at the present time, it would cause more problems than it would solve. I'd doubt anybody would willingly go from a fairly descent country (economically), to be ruled by a big gob-****e called Bertie aHearn :d. But seriously, if there is to be a United Ireland, every1 will have to agree with it. And with the likes of Eircom and them car-insurance companies, there really is no benefit to the average Northy joining the Republic (at present).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    Originally posted by azezil
    Ideally i'd love to see a united Ireland but as someone pointed out if i had to listen to Ian Pasley :eek: i'd go insane n have to kill the biotch! ;)

    say what you want about ian paisley as a politician, but hes a bloody good counceller. and anyone who disagrees with me had better have some really good stories, or is talking from their behinds. yep, hes loud, but when it comes to doing his job, he does not (funny as it sounds) discriminate between religions. if they are in his constituancy, then he will do what he can.

    no silly replies please. now, as for those republican muppets ;)
    (for the people out there with a lack of humour gland, that was a joke. a jest. a little jab at religion and politics in the north if you will, so bugger off)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭Shinji


    The Shinners are the same though Eamo - great on the ground as constituency workers, and get really involved in the running of their local area.

    Doesn't change the fact that the likes of Paisley has a lot of blood on his hands and should be spending the rest of his life in a very, very small room if there were any justice in the world...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Yes - if it means we can field a better soccer team,
    or perhaps we can get readmited into the UK, (if only to see the expression in Paisley's face) :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭ButcherOfNog


    Originally posted by gandalf
    Let me see can we trade in Northern Ireland for the Channel Islands please ???

    hmmm interesting idea, but why not somewhere in the carribean? like barbados? give NI to whatever fools would have it, and we'll take barbados, ryan air can set up a service and we can jet off for 50quid return for the weekends.

    and no, a united ireland at the moment won't work, don't want it. i like my windows intact without blast bombs thank u very much


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    Originally posted by Shinji
    The Shinners are the same though Eamo - great on the ground as constituency workers, and get really involved in the running of their local area.

    Doesn't change the fact that the likes of Paisley has a lot of blood on his hands and should be spending the rest of his life in a very, very small room if there were any justice in the world...

    id agree with you rob on your first point. i was just pointing out it out becuase lets face it, its not something you are told down south.
    as for your second point, erm, not too sure what you are on about there? are you saying that in an indirect way as a leader of a political party he is responsible for peoples deaths? or has he actually murdered people ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 880 ✭✭✭Von


    as for your second point, erm, not too sure what you are on about there? are you saying that in an indirect way as a leader of a political party he is responsible for peoples deaths? or has he actually murdered people ?
    Yeah what next. Hitler - not too bad?


    In 1956, Rev. Paisley abducted a 16 year old girl, Maura Lyons, who was in a dispute with her parents about joining the Free Presbyterian Church. He attempted to use her as an anti-Catholic propaganda stunt and would not inform police where she was. Paisley was later ordered in court never to go near the girl or her family again.

    On June 17, 1959, at a Belfast rally, he publicly chastised "the men of the Shankill for allowing papists, pope's men, and papishers" to live on the Shankill Rd. Angry crowds went to the addresses called out by Paisley, burned out the occupants and looted their homes.

    In May of 1968, during the height of the Civil Rights movement in the North, Paisley addressed a mob of 500 loyalists and burned a photograph of Prime Minister O'Neil who was shown to be visiting a Catholic convent the week before.

    After inciting loyalists to burn Catholic families out of their homes, the Rev. Paisley explained the problem to the press: His exact words were "Catholic homes caught fire because they were loaded with petrol bombs; Catholic churches were attacked and burned because they were arsenals and priests handed out sub-machine guns to parishioners; and the massive discrimination in employment and shortage of houses for Catholics were simply because they breed like "rabbits" and multiply like "vermin".

    William Beattie, a loyal lieutenant of Rev. Paisley, addressed a DUP Youth Group after the Anglo-Irish Accord was signed by the Dublin and London governments in 1986: "We must hire assassins to kill Catholics and pay them when the job is done."

    On Violence

    Several founding members and early leaders of the Ulster Defense Association were close confidants and workers for Paisley. Between 1971 and 1976 alone, the UDA [Ulster Defense Association] and its cover organizations murdered 600 Catholics. Freddie Parkinson, a leader of the UDA, stated in 1984, that Paisley was "a tarantula who spreads the venom of further conflict and has been a major contributor to our prolonged tragedy."

    John McKeague, a disciple of Free Presbyterianism, founded the murderous Red Hand Commandos. Billy Mitchel, a gunman for the Ulster Volunteer Force murder squads, was a Sunday school teacher for the Free Presbyterian church. William McGrath, founder of a paramilitary group that called for the banning of the Catholic Church, was convicted in 1981 of sexual abuse of children.

    Paisley's most trusted aide in London is Rev. Brian Green, a man with close links to the National Front, a Nazi organization.

    Billy and Gusty Spence, founders of the UVF murder gang, and Ken Gibson, Tommy Heron and Davey Payne, leaders of the UDA, served as organizers at Paisley's rallies, In 1969, bombings around the North were falsely attributed to the IRA. Paisley's bodyguard, Sammy Stevenson turned Queen's evidence admitting he and Tommy McDowell, a Free Presbyterian, conspired to set off the bombs in loyalist districts in order to further incite the loyalist community.

    On Jews

    "The Unionist party are boasting he [Harold Smith] is a Jew. As a Jew, he rejects our Lord Jesus Christ, the New Testament, Protestant principles, the Glorious Reformation and the sanctity of the Lord's day. The Protestant throne and the Protestant constitution are nothing to him."

    On Journalists

    "... the whirring multitudes of pestiferous scribbling rodents... who usually sport thick lensed glasses, wear six pairs of ropey sandals, are homosexuals, kiss holy medals or carry secret membership cards of the Communist party... spineless, brainless mongoloids. But, because of it, maliciously perilous as vipers."

    On Censorship

    The Democratic Unionist Party, the political wing of the Free Presbyterian Church, passed a resolution at its 1978 annual conference to condemn blasphemous literature like John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men.

    On Women

    Valerie Shaw, secretary of a Free Presbyterian church, discovered sexual abuse of boys at Kincora School by Paisley confidant William McGrath. She tried to get Paisley to give the matter his spiritual attention for years. When he did not, she left the church. Since then, no woman can hold official office in the church leadership.

    On the EEC

    Paisley berated the European Economic Community as part of a "papal plot" and the "bride of the anti-Christ." He sought the seat to the European parliament because God told him to "sit amongst the frog eaters [French] and the snail mongers [Belgians]."

    On Being British

    In a debate with Bernadette Devlin in June 1968, Paisley defended himself regarding a position Devlin thought was unfair by stating he "would rather be British than be fair."

    Others on Ian Paisley

    DUP barrister Robert McCartney stated that "Paisley is a fascist who is more interested in an independent Ulster, a mini-Geneva run by a fifth-rate Calvin, than Union with Britain."

    Imprisoned UDA leader Freddie Parkinson, in appeal for non-violence by Paisley: "I remember the paramilitary megalomaniac who beckoned us to follow him but who later abandoned us to be scored as common criminals."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Blimey Von, you've been reading up!

    My own two cents worth is to re-call the words of some bloke
    who, looking foward to German unification said-
    "I like Germany so much I'm glad the're are two of them!"

    A united Ireland who be no such thing.

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭klong


    Newsflash: Ian Paisley to become next Secretary- General of the United Nations.


    Nice, peace-loving guy that he is and all....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Superman


    It should be united and at present the vast majority are united for 1 thing and thats peace , and if they try and try, they might just make it work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    reminds me of stephen kings dark half....
    george stark, not a very nice guy...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
    reminds me of stephen kings dark half....
    george stark, not a very nice guy...


    Who is George Stark and whats he got to do with all this anyway! ;)

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    Originally posted by mike65



    Who is George Stark and whats he got to do with all this anyway! ;)

    Mike.

    george stark was not a very nice guy.
    read above for references and make connection.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Nope! I still don't get it, Nancy!

    George Stark is a writer using a nom-de-plum and Stephen
    King writes under alias' every now and again, and Stephen
    King is the name of a Unionist adviser...I'm struggling here
    as I have'nt read the book in question.

    Mike


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    change george stark for ian paisley.
    try to use the brain your mother gave at least once a day...


    anyway, do you not think we should give ireland back to england and apologise for making a mess of the place?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭][cEMAN**


    I'm curiously listening to everyone mentioning the economic problems which would arise and noticing a lot of general disregard for those who have spent their time fighting for a nation the next generation has now decided they just don;t want.

    I'm also wonddering how long till these people get into government and decide to help the economy they'll auction off a few more counties.

    Most countries face economical problems to some level. Not all crack assunder though as you would say.

    Now don;t get me wrong - I would love a united ireland though in saying that I don't believe in patriotism, as to fight for ones country rather than ones family is a fools path. Infact war in any way or form is stupid.

    You just have to realise that we live on an island which has throughout its VAST history has only in general terms recently become split and not through it's own choice.

    I find it dismaying if not funny that this generation will walk away from the principles that their forefathers have held so dear. Then I remember that most people these days are cinical B@STARDS who in the end only ever think of themselves.

    Tbh I don't think it has to do with the economy but rather a general bigotry which has occured in the last few generations which I find myself when even I come on to IRC. You see it in England between the north and the south and you see it now in Ireland.

    Though I don;t see why I should be surprised when you then look closer and find that people between counties argue through bigotry and then through areas of the counties etc....

    Wait - EVERYONE'S A ****ING HYPOCRYTE!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭FreaK_BrutheR


    I hope to jesus you are joking wwm. Seriously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Originally posted by ][cEMAN**

    I'm also wonddering how long till these people get into government and decide to help the economy they'll auction off a few more counties.

    I don't think many of us would miss Leitrim or Louth...;)

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭The Clown Man


    Not another fúckin word about Louth m8. Louth happens to be cool. Actually no. But still - it's my home county so no dissing.

    I concur with Leitrim however. :p


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    Originally posted by FreaK_BrutheR
    I hope to jesus you are joking wwm. Seriously.

    mark!
    you know me better than that!!!!

    for shame yourself :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭Shinji


    I find it dismaying if not funny that this generation will walk away from the principles that their forefathers have held so dear.

    Yeah, personally I'm shocked at all these people doing stuff like re-evaluating their principles and actually thinking through their political beliefs.

    I mean, look at all those people not going to church or accepting the supreme authority of the pope! Shocking! Their great grandparents turning in their graves no doubt.

    And entire generations of German people steadfastly not burning any Jews!

    In South Africa, they're actually bringing up youngsters and teaching them that blacks and whites are equal! What on earth is going on there!? What about the principles their forefathers held so dear?

    It's a call to arms, brothers and sisters. We must make a return to traditional values and cease this disregard for the beliefs of earlier generations. DOWN WITH THOUGHT!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    the war was fought for catholic equality, it was and still is by some thought and only an united Ireland could lead to that.

    Personally an independent country would solve allot of problems before they happen

    PS Shinji you ideas interest me, id like to subscribe to your news letter


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
    the war was fought for catholic equality, it was and still is by some thought and only an united Ireland could lead to that.

    hmm, at which point in the campaign did it become religious?
    sorry, in which century i mean?

    because, and forgive me here as my history is a bit sketchy....
    but when england came to ireland, there was no protestant church right?
    it was over a hundred years before the idea of protestantism was even thought of.
    so it couldnt have been then.
    was it when henry 8 couldnt get a divorce under catholic religion so he took his country and buggered of became a potestant?
    was that the turning point there?
    hmmm, but what about king james..
    wasnt he a catholic.
    ok, now im confused.
    it would apear to me that this would be a more recent thing.
    is that a correct assumption.
    so, to be honest, thered be no problem yo8u are saying having a load of brits living in the north as long as they are not protestants? is that what some people think?

    sir, please extrapolate on your postualations. im increasingly interested in this debate.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭Shinji


    To be entirely fair, 30 years ago, the conflict in the North was about Catholic equality; civil rights marches, etc...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 Damarr


    I'm from the North, and for a while, I had a very Republican slant on things, and supported their ideals, if not their methods. That was a few years ago, but now I realise it frankly isn't worth the bother - changing administrations would be such a pain in the ass anyway. I might be a nationalist, but I'm perfectly happy where I am. Obviously, the state could do with some work, but I couldn't care less how long NI remains in the UK, provided it is a decent country to live in.

    I'd support a united Ireland when

    a) Most of the population want it
    b) It actually has some benefit for the people

    Currently, neither of those conditions exist. Until then, its a nice idea, but not practical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Originally posted by ][cEMAN**
    You just have to realise that we live on an island which has throughout its VAST history has only in general terms recently become split and not through it's own choice.

    I vaguely recollect the London Treaty c 1921 and the Belfast agreement c. 1998 that made this choice and was affirmed by majority in referendums. Or are tehy inconvenient facts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


    hmm, at which point in the campaign did it become religious?
    sorry, in which century i mean?

    because, and forgive me here as my history is a bit sketchy....
    but when england came to ireland, there was no protestant church right?
    it was over a hundred years before the idea of protestantism was even thought of.
    so it couldnt have been then.
    was it when henry 8 couldnt get a divorce under catholic religion so he took his country and buggered of became a potestant?
    was that the turning point there?
    hmmm, but what about king james..
    wasnt he a catholic.
    ok, now im confused.
    it would apear to me that this would be a more recent thing.
    is that a correct assumption.
    so, to be honest, thered be no problem yo8u are saying having a load of brits living in the north as long as they are not protestants? is that what some people think?

    sir, please extrapolate on your postualations. im increasingly interested in this debate.......

    We all know that, help the Real ira wont a socialist state, they dont really care about religion. but you have to admitte that most people joined the ira in the 60-80 because of catholic oppression


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭Shinji


    I think it's more fair to say that the Real IRA are a bunch of extremist religious/political nutcases mixed in with a dash of murderous psychopaths who'll support any cause that lets them kill people. Attributing actual thought, like "we want a socialist state" or "I like ice cream" to such a crowd of tossers is being excessively kind.


This discussion has been closed.
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