Defeat....?

kamobe

Seems to me that regardless of our efforts, events continue to unfold as if we weren’t even here.....

The major players just don’t give a *!* what we have to say and ignore us at every given step. I have sent letters, got replies, but basically no one seems to care, bar us.

So, how do we make major corporations listen? That blackout concept is a good idea, and I'm certainly going to participate....

But it's more of a solid gesture of disgust, rather then a true stab at Eircom. Experience suggests that they’ll just pretend it never happened, and continue to make extortionate amounts of money, at our expense

Basically, it’s hard to keep fighting, when every one step forward, follows another one in the opposite opinion.....

Unless there is a radical change in public opinion towards the net (and i hardly see mousey instigating that), we're probably gonna have to sit it out.

Maybe we'll be fine, I hear ISDN is great........

b20uvkft6m5xwg

defeatism is not allowed on the irelandoffline board IMO.

If you dont want to make postive contributions instead of cluttering the board, take a hike over to another board or website preferably.

Sorry if I seem a little annoyed but I hate to see ppl getting on the back of the campaign- which is wholly voluntary might I add- by posting stuff like this or also the now monthly question... "Whats goin on w/ IOffline"
Well the answer is a fúckin load if you bothered to take your head out of your arse:)

kamobe

My opinion......?

I'm sure there are others just as frustrated as i am.....
Hardly cluttering the boards posting an opinion, that's what they're here for.....

And eh:
"Whats goin on w/ IOffline" - What's that got to do with my post?

Xithus

I think more drastic action is required. Dont ask me what, Ive no idea.. The blackout is a nice idea, but I doubt Eircom will give a ****.. If they even notice at all that is.. And I'd imagine most will log on to avail of how fast the net would be that day or weekend. I will participate but I still think its a bit meaningless.

Personally I would pay the £100 a month, only for that ****ing 3gb cap.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

The "whats goin on?" question is co-related in that its seems to be the attitude of ppl who are neither gracious nor appreciative we have a such a dedicated cmmtee.

Fine thats your opinion- of which be in no doubt I respect, but I simply dont think you need to proliferate it here on the Ioffline Bd. if in essence its in no way constructive.

What were you hoping to happen??

*Cmtee Meeting*
"Oh well Kamobe says we're wasting our time-
Lets pack up and leave the internet in Ireland in the shít state we found it, Shall We??"
*end Cmtee Meeting*

My point to you thus is what were you hoping to achieve by posting this thread? Most of the current ongoings are simply out of the hands of IrelandOffline and the ODTR and Govt. for that matter.

The major players just don’t give a *!* what we have to say and ignore us at every given step

Well now that is patently untrue- There is little doubt that IrelandOffline is the represenative of ordinary net users in Ireland. Maybe if were @ the Seminar You would have realised such:)

Matfinn

l

GoneShootin

i keep saying it but that we need is a hardline group of vigilanties to take the board of directors hostage until demands are met

anti terrorist software kicks in.....

dahamsta

I don't think it had anything to do with your post kamobe, 80p is just highlighting the regular thread that comes up on the IO board, asking what we're doing. And to be fair, people have a right to ask too, but unfortunately some things that are going on in the background simply can't be discussed, because doing that would jeopardise the situation(s).

I feel your pain though. Sometimes it feels like an uphill battle, and the hill just keeps getting steeper. And to be frank, it amazes me, because it's not just Internet access is the problem, it's all comms in Ireland. Call costs are vastly overpriced when compared to other European countries. Leased lines are absolutely scandalously priced, and not only that, a huge percentage of the fibre laid hasn't even been lit.

But every month the majority of the population simply pays the bill, has a whinge, and SUDDENLY... does absolutely nothing about it. Again. I mean, Joe & Jane Average you can understand - that's just a lack of understanding of the issues - but what about the business men and women who also have to pay those bills? What about the broadcasters, the reporters, the politicians? I mean, I know a lot of those groups can well afford it, but doesn't someone see the wider issues here?

As I said in another thread, I was discussing this with Dave last night, and the two of us just kept repeating the same old problems at each other. And we were genuinely stupified, shocked and amazed that no-one is picking up on it. No-one seems to get it, and that quite frankly pisses me off. It's not as if we're experts here, we just know a little bit more than Joe & Jane Average. Surely if we can see the absolutely enormous problems that have to be fixed for Ireland to succeed at all, it can't be all that opaque. It's not rocket science like...

But that's why the Blackout is a good stepping stone, and that's why I don't care about "hurting Eircom" all that much. "Education, education, education", as Mr. Blair said. If you want somebody to fix something, you have to point out the problem first. Unfortunately, we have to take the roundabout route, because most politicians absolutely refuse to be educated on this. They listen, but they don't hear. (Ok, in some cases they don't even listen, but you get the idea.)

Worse than that though, we have an election coming up, and although this is an election issue, it's not a short term one, it's not one the politicians can follow through on easily. There's a lot of hard work involved, because of the intrinsically political nature of the problem. Because of Eircom. So who gets to do the real slogging? Us? We can't give up, that would be pandering to Eircom. We have to battle the bastards. Hell, I've been doing it for three or fours years now, in my own little ways. But now we have an organisation to back us up, and although the going is tough, we're getting there.

And to be honest, I'm enjoying every minute of it. I look forward to ripping Chorus a new one when I'm done...

adam

rymus

what we need is a pair of pliers and a rusty chainsaw. thats the only way to get thru to eircom Im sure when some staff start disappearing they'll ask "Hmm, wheres half our call centre gone?"

by the second month of the 'operation' they'd be asking "Hmm, wheres half the execs gone?"

but thats only my roughly pencilled plan... I'll knock up something more solid and email a copy to the legbreakers ive employed

kamobe

"Oh well Kamobe says we're wasting our time- "

Do you take the same approach with everyone who differs from you?

When did i say you were wasting your time...? The topic is:
"Defeat...?"

Note the question mark. I am a heavy internet user who stands only to benefit from IrelandOffline’s efforts.

As regards being branded as not being "gracious or appreciative"....
I've played my part, i believe anyway, as best I can. I've sent stinging mails (as i said earlier), and will continue to do so....

Re: dahamsta "I feel your pain though. Sometimes it feels like an uphill battle, and the hill just keeps getting steeper.."

Nicely phrased, and I'm not jumping ship - just disheartened by big brothers refusal to listen....

Finally: "I simply don’t think you need to proliferate it here on the Ioffline Bd. if in essence its in no way constructive."
But it is constructive....

If that's the way I think surely others are the same, and, had I not posted, they wouldn't have been re-assured by dahamsta's inspiring post

dahamsta

The blackout is a nice idea, but I doubt Eircom will give a ****.. If they even notice at all that is.. And I'd imagine most will log on to avail of how fast the net would be that day or weekend. I will participate but I still think its a bit meaningless.

Honestly? I couldn't five a flying fup at the moon whether Eircom notice or not. Jane & Joe Average, politicians, the OLO's and the media are who we need to get the attention of. Fup Eircom. What have Eircom ever done for us? Nothing. What will Eircom ever do for us? Nothing. Fup them. We've got bigger fish to fry...

Personally I would pay the £100 a month, only for that ****ing 3gb cap.

Personally, so would I, if, I say IF (heh, I'm turning into Fred Elliot) it was fair and cost-oriented. The DSL market in the US is in trouble because they mismanaged the businesses and sold the products too cheaply without government subsidies. So if Eircom have to sell a bit higher, well, bully for them, I won't complain. (Although the government should of course be subsiding it, to keep initial costs down.) But not at the prices they've set. Not with those caps, nuh-uh. That's such a blatant ruse to keep DSL modems out of houses it's embarassing. It really is - I don't know how they can keep straight faces.

This comes back to another thread I wanted to post on but didn't get the chance. (Actually that's a lie, I wrote a big long rant but I couldn't be arsed reformatting for vBulletin.) Bob Cringley says "Broadband Is Dead". Well I say screw Bob, because he's wrong. Yes, the broadband market in the US is falling apart, it's in an awful state, but that's just another example of the morons and money-grubbers that ran and invested in the companies. That's just dotcom idiocy. Broadband isn't dead in America, it's just broken. They just need to fix it.

And the people who swallowed Cringely's ravings on this subject make me absolutely livid. Sure, broadband is in trouble in the US, but who cares? Why should I give a hoot? I don't live in the US. We don't even have broadband over here, so why all the whinging? But we can learn from the Stateside fup-ups. Here's an example for you - ever hear of Webvan? That idiotic online supermarket concept in the US? Who's the biggest online supermarket retailer in the world now? Tesco. Tesco took the Webvan idea and made it work. And do you know what they're doing now? They're bloody well selling it back to them. Ha!

Long and short: Broadband isn't dead, it's broken. The marketplace mistakes are there on Wired, FT.com and The Register for all to see. We shouldn't be worried about broadband being dead, we should be worried about what kind of idiots we'll look like if we can't implement it right from first day.

Phew, I slid just a wee bit off-topic in that one, huh?

adam

seamus

In fact I think since adam became King of all things anti-eircom, things have started to look up. IOffl have gotten more allies, whether directly through boards, or through people that don't even know IOffl exist, like the German Chamber of commerce. Basically, the people who know what they are talking about are copping on. The politicians will (slowly) begin to listen to those who know what they are talking about, and the politicans will change all of this info into something with a totally different point, but achieve the same result through social engineering. OK that whole paragraph makes no sense. New thing......

I really need someone to do this, or at least know what I am talking about. If I had a digital camera or scanner, I would show you what I'm talking about, but I don't so I'll try explain it as best I can: Look at eircom phoneboxes. They have three glass panels with the logo on them. Ok, go to one of the non-door, glass sides, and look through the glass, so you can see the logo on the panel in front of you, and backwards on the glass panel behind it. If you look at it at the proper angle, you will see the basic makings of the errorcom logo!!!I shít you not. Here's a quick pic I did in paint just 5 mins ago(you'd never guess)
This might help. Next time you pass a phonebox take a look(and a picture)

dahamsta

what we need is a pair of pliers and a rusty chainsaw. thats the only way to get thru to eircom Im sure when some staff start disappearing they'll ask "Hmm, wheres half our call centre gone?" by the second month of the 'operation' they'd be asking "Hmm, wheres half the execs gone?"

And you honestly think they'd notice? You could take most of the ex-TE staff out of Eircom and no-one'd be the wiser. And the executives? They can't manage to get it up in the evening, or at least that's what their wives tell me. And their husbands.

but thats only my roughly pencilled plan... I'll knock up something more solid and email a copy to the legbreakers ive employed

Look, I'm a moderator now, so it has to be said - I'm really not mad about this kind of stuff. I know you're only venting (christ, I hope you are!:)) but it doesn't really solve anything, does it? And you can still come up with vicious, horrible things to do to Eircom that are completely legal...

adam

seamus

Oohhh hang on.....I'm getting premonitions of 500 people wearing various t-shirts sporting the boards.ie logo or the errorcom rat, standing outside eircom HQ in the cold and rain, and generally disrupting life in Dublin city. Will we be reduced to that? I'd be well up for that just say the word dahamsta!!(or Bard)

kamobe

heh
Be like the taxi/truck drivers and p1ss every single person in the city off?

Not something I'd be mad about (i dont like the rain...).

SkepticOne

Originally posted by seamus
Oohhh hang on.....I'm getting premonitions of 500 people wearing various t-shirts sporting the boards.ie logo or the errorcom rat, standing outside eircom HQ in the cold and rain, and generally disrupting life in Dublin city. Will we be reduced to that? I'd be well up for that just say the word dahamsta!!(or Bard)

I would certainly support that if it came down to it. But I think the real answer lies in back room lobbying and public education. The 'public protest' is a sort of trump card and should be used for the final push, IMHO. Because of Ireland's reliance on direct foreign investment, there is a tendency to cover up the country's information infrastructure problems and so you get people believing that the situation is much better than it is. This has got to change, but hopefully in such a way as not to damage Ireland's image abroad.

chernobyl

id say change is near on the horiizon...patience peeps.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Ok Kamobe, Dont take it personally. Your post was like the inanimate object you take your frustration out on when you're angry about something. It was nothing against you personally.

My feelings still stand though but I'm not going to get into another barney about it- I just dont have the time and energy @ the mo. Basically I disagree w/ the manner in which you have raised some issues but thats besides the point.

Signing off....

Gambler

I wonder if we could get a sizable number of shareholders and staff to sign a petition of some sort to say they disagree with the Eircom Boards Decision on pricing structures?? Imagine the publicity you could get if a large enough number of Eircoms own staff and Share holders signed up... anyone here work for eircom have any thoughts on the Subject?

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by chernobyl
id say change is near on the horiizon...patience peeps.

Care to elaborate, Chernobyl?

TomF

I'd say the situation with Eircom giving no service at a high price is in line with the performance of the bus system, the train system, the hospital system, the roads system, the police system and every system I can think of now or formerly run from the central bureaucracy of this now or formerly semi-socialist country. For some reason when the government was set up the founding fathers thought that every detail could be handled from a central office somewhere. We can't even "trow da bums out" every two years or so because the parliamentary system keeps them in office until some kind of disaster happens. Maybe what Ireland really needs is to write a new constitution or maybe throw in the towel and become the 51st State of the Union, and I don't mean the European Union! I suppose it's too late to declare war on the US and then surrender immediately like the movie based on an Irishman's creation, "The Mouse that Roared."

rymus

Originally posted by dahamsta
Look, I'm a moderator now

Ahhhhhhhhhhh I never noticed!

/me runs & hides

Naw, I was just yankin yer crank with that post before. I've no intention of maiming any eircom staff..... (yet) *twitch*

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by kamobe
Seems to me that regardless of our efforts, events continue to unfold as if we weren’t even here.....

The major players just don’t give a *!* what we have to say and ignore us at every given step. I have sent letters, got replies, but basically no one seems to care, bar us.

So, how do we make major corporations listen? That blackout concept is a good idea, and I'm certainly going to participate....

But it's more of a solid gesture of disgust, rather then a true stab at Eircom. Experience suggests that they’ll just pretend it never happened, and continue to make extortionate amounts of money, at our expense

Basically, it’s hard to keep fighting, when every one step forward, follows another one in the opposite opinion.....

I'm getting seriously pissed off too. It seems to me, and I'm sure I'll have the ire of the control freak version I as well as version II (except 20% cheaper) brought down on me but it seems to me that the driving force that dragged us all into this was Howard and when I read back over the ideas and energy he showed for this back when, it convinces me that we need him driving this forward more than ever, AND he's based in Dublin at least. The leutenants had one good idea and have run out of ideas and energy afaiac.

pork99

The major players just don’t give a *!* what we have to say and ignore us at every given step. I have sent letters, got replies, but basically no one seems to care, bar us.

Yes it is like banging your head against the wall but its important that we try even if only for the record.

When in the middle of this century the history is written of how this country condemned itself to 2nd class economy status and how the real e-commerce hubs of Europe developed in places like London, Amsterdam Berlin and Stockholm, and Ireland lost out because we failed to develop the right conditions for an indigeneous tech industry and were left in the crap when Intel, MS etc pulled out and moved to Poland in 2006 after that country joined the EU, at least there will be some evidence that some people were not just passive and complacent consumers of eircom's cak-handedness.

I hope I am being too pessimistic but it could happen.