Strange case of Project Bojinka

Clintons Cat

In the course of the investigation, we found out through a laptop computer confiscated from Murad that they were also going to implement a terrorist plot called Project Bojinka," Razon, formerly Manila's police chief, said.

The plot called for the hijacking of US commercial airliners, bombing them or crashing them into several targets including the Central Intelligence Agency...

allegations of a coverup abound

Yousef and Murad were prosecuted in New York by Dietrich Snell, who was quoted by the New York Daily News on September 25 as saying that the prosecution focused on the plot to plant bombs on airliners, not on the plan to crash a plane into CIA headquarters. This story also reported that two years ago Murad offered to cooperate with prosecutors in return for a more lenient sentence. His best bargaining chip would have been more information about the plan to hijack and crash airliners, which had not figured in the trial. We will never know for sure what he had to offer, because U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White wasn’t interested.

According to the rightwing Accuracy In Media group only the washington post ran the project bojinka connection in the wake of the WTC attack.

Howell Raines, executive editor of the New York Times, says they didn’t report it because it was an old story, one they reported in 1995. That is all the more reason to bring it up now. Those at the CIA and FBI responsible for this catastrophic intelligence failure should be replaced, but that won’t happen if the media don’t show the public how they dropped the ball. Howell Raines says that isn’t necessary because their incompetence is so well known.

....project bojinka search links
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0109/13/world2/world26.html
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/html/webspecial/WTC/wtcnews84.html
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/newyork/ny-wocase2363660sep13.story?coll=ny-nynews-print
http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/2001/18.html
http://www.aim.org/publications/weekly_column/2001/09/27.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10543-2001Sep22.html

Kim Tae-Woo

JarJar blinks

Hey Clinton is it true?

Clintons Cat

afaik yes it is.

i havent followed up this story in a while but i would suspect that the intelligence agencies have given Murads offer a lot more consideration than they had previously.Despite his lengthy detention period prior to 9/11/01 He would be more informed source of information about the nature and structure of al queedia networks than the mujahadeenies captured crawling round in the dirt with an ak74 in afganistan that are now languishing in guatamo bay.

the sticky links at the top of politics has disappered but try searching the daily press briefings from the state department for some very candid assessments about the war on terrorism.
Also try the Washington Post (daniel pearls former newspaper) for some very informed articles.
as with all things on the internet use your own discretion when attaching wieght to what you read.

Lei Xiejiang

Could it be that the FBI may have bungled a terrorist sting operation just like the OKC bombing and the Iraqis or maybe Bush told the FBI to "Back-Off" just like he did previously when they were investigating the bin Ladens (source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4293682,00.html) and are now trying to cover it up?


Source of Article:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/08_09_02/New_York_Firefighters__/new_york_firefighters__.html

Excerpt:
New York Firefighters’ Final Words Fuel Burning Questions About 9-11

"Evidence that could debunk the official explanation for the collapse of the World Trade Center is being kept secret by the Department of Justice on a flimsy pretext."

Exclusive to American Free Press

By Christopher Bollyn

The Department of Justice has ordered secrecy measures to keep the contents of a “lost tape” of firefighters’ voices at the World Trade Center from being made public. The 78-minute audiotape evidently debunks the accepted explanation that intense jet fuel fires melted the towers’ steel beams and caused the collapses.

The New York Times recently revealed the existence of the tape of radio transmissions between firefighters of the New York Fire Department (NYFD), which proves that “at least two men” had reached the 78th floor Sky Lobby of the South Tower. The firefighters had reported about the fires and casualties they encountered and had begun evacuating the survivors.

The article said that firefighters “reached the crash zone on the 78th floor, where they went to the aid of grievously injured people trapped in a sprawl of destruction.”

While the article raises as many questions as it answers, it points to a reason for the secrecy: “Once they got there,” the article says, “they had a coherent plan for putting out the fires they could see and helping victims who survived.”

The report names two of the firefighters who were at the crash site: Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer, who was organizing the evacuation of injured people, and Fire Marshal Ronald P. Bucca. Both were among the 343 firefighters who perished.

The voices of the firefighters “showed no panic, no sense that events were racing beyond their control,” the Times wrote. “At that point, the building would be standing for just a few more minutes, as the fire was weakening the structure on the floors above him. Even so, Chief Palmer could see only two pockets of fire, and called for a pair of engine companies to fight them.”

The fact that veteran firefighters had “a coherent plan for putting out” the “two pockets of fire” indicates they judged the blazes to be manageable. These reports from the scene of the crash provide crucial evidence debunking the government’s claim that a raging steel-melting inferno led to the tower’s collapse.

As the FEMA “Building Performance Assessment” report says, “Temperatures may have been as high as 900-1,100 degrees Celsius (1,700-2,000 Fahrenheit) in some areas.”

“If FEMA’s temperature estimates are correct, the interiors of the towers were furnaces capable of casting aluminum and glazing pottery,” Eric Hufschmid, author of the book Time for Painful Questions writes. Yet the voices on the tape prove that several firefighters were able to work “without fear” for an extended period at the point of the crash, and that the fires they encountered there were neither intense nor large.

The South Tower disintegrated in less than an hour after being hit by a plane, which impacted between its 78th and 84th floors. “Fire has never caused a steel building to collapse,” Hufschmid writes. “So how did a 56-minute fire bring down a steel building as strong as the South Tower?”

Hufschmid’s forthcoming book presents compelling evidence that explosives caused the towers to collapse."

“The Fire Department has forbidden anyone to discuss the contents publicly on the ground that the tape might be evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the man accused of plotting with the hijackers,” the Times said.

When AFP asked the NYFD why the only conversations between firefighters engaged at the scene of the crash had to be kept secret because of Moussaoui, who was in prison in Minnesota at the time, the spokesman replied, “Take it up with the Department of Justice.”

Asked about the numerous reports by eyewitnesses, including firefighters, of explosions inside the towers before they collapsed, Mike Logrin, spokesman for the NYFD, said, “We’re pretty sure there weren’t bombs in the building.”

-end quote

Another:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nyt/20020804/ts_nyt/lost_voices_of_firefighters__some_on_the_78th_floor&e=1

Lost Voices of Firefighters, Some on the 78th Floor

Sun Aug 4, 3:31 PM ET
By JIM DWYER and FORD FESSENDEN The New York Times

A lost tape of lost voices, ignored until recently by investigators studying the emergency response on Sept. 11, shows that firefighters climbed far higher into the south tower than practically anyone had realized. At least two men reached the crash zone on the 78th floor, where they went to the aid of grievously injured people trapped in a sprawl of destruction.

Until the building's final minutes, one of the two firefighters, Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer, was organizing the evacuation of people hurt by the plane's impact. He was accompanied by Fire Marshal Ronald P. Bucca. Both men died.

Only now, nearly a year after the attacks, are the efforts of Chief Palmer, Mr. Bucca and others becoming public. City fire officials simply delayed listening to a 78-minute tape that is the only known recording of firefighters inside the towers. The Fire Department has forbidden anyone to discuss the contents publicly on the ground that the tape might be evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the man accused of plotting with the hijackers.

According to four people who have heard it, the tape provides new, sharp and unforgettable images of the last minutes inside the trade center complex.

For months, senior officials believed that firefighters had gone no higher than about the 50th floor in each tower, well below most damage. The transmissions from Chief Palmer and others reveal a startling achievement: firefighters in the south tower actually reached a floor struck by the second hijacked airplane. Once they got there, they had a coherent plan for putting out the fires they could see and helping victims who survived.

About 14 or 15 minutes before the south tower collapsed, a group of people who had survived the plane's impact began their descent from the 78th floor. As they departed, Chief Palmer sent word to Chief Edward Geraghty that a group of 10 people, with a number of injuries, were heading to an elevator on the 41st floor. That elevator was the only one working after the plane hit. On its last trip down, however, the car became stuck in the shaft. Inside the elevator was a firefighter from Ladder 15, who reported that he was trying to break open the walls. It is not clear whether the group of 10 had reached that elevator before it left the 41st floor but those who listened to the tape said it was most unlikely that they had enough time to escape, by the elevator or by stairs.

Only a minute or two of the tape covers transmissions from the north tower; the rest are from the south tower. Senior officials said this suggested that the communications problems that plagued the Fire Department's response to the attack were caused not simply by equipment failures, but possibly also by misunderstandings over how certain radio gear was working.

On the tapes, the commander of operations in the south tower, Donald Burns, is heard repeatedly calling for additional companies, but many firefighters headed for that building became caught in traffic or became confused about which tower they should report to. As events developed, the inability to get more firefighters into the south tower may have spared some lives, officials said.

Clintons Cat

“Fire has never caused a steel building to collapse,” Hufschmid writes. “So how did a 56-minute fire bring down a steel building as strong as the South Tower?”

Hufschmid’s forthcoming book presents compelling evidence that explosives caused the towers to collapse."

this seems a very dubious statement coming from a man who has a book to sell to dare i say it gullible people.In the mid eighties kings cross underground tube fire,the tempretures were high enough to melt the ceramic tiles off the roof of the main ticket office,despite the fact there was little flamable material to feed the fire with,despite the high tempretures many firefighters were able to enter the area whilst the fire was still raging.
in the case of the world trade centre even if the firefighters had reached the 78th floor (according to source the first and lowest level the plane hit) most of the heat and flames would have been carried upwardsin effect the wtc became a giant wind tunnel in the sky.

btw
a simple link would have done with a few selected quotes using the quote option to draw attention to the bits you wish to comment upon would make your posts a lot easier to read.

Clintons Cat

a quick browse of the interweb brings up a lot more intresting articles about the WTC collapse and the part fire played in it.
from http://prorev.com/wtc.htm

Prior to the advent of the World Trade Center towers, high-rise buildings shared two vital characteristics. They were supported by a grid of steel columns, generally spaced about thirty feet apart, and each interior column was encased in a tough cladding of concrete to create a fireproof skin designed to withstand a four-hour inferno. (The four-hour fire rating is the code rule for the columns and major beams in any large building.) As designed by architect Minoru Yamasaki, New York's Twin Towers incorporated neither of these traditional features. And as far as Malott is concerned, it was the failure of their substitutes - not the initial crash, not the exploding jet fuel, and not the subsequent fire alone -that lead to their collapse

reading on it explains how once the fireprrofing cladding had been stripped away by the initial impact the core was able to reach melting point within an hour and the lode was not able to be taken up by the standard saftey feature (the concrete clad grid structure) which was omitted from the design.
The building collapsed from the centre outwards,with very little heat around the extremities of the building,whilst the fire was raging in the central core it would be concievable that people would still be able to move around the surrounding floors

The best proof is what happened to the 102-story Empire State Building when rammed by a B-25 in 1945. The plane, loaded with gasoline, hit between the seventy-eighth and seventy-ninth floors. The resultant fire burned for twenty-four hours and gutted five stories of the building. But the accident did not cause any catastrophic collapse of the structure because the tower had been built around a grid of interior columns and everyone had been clad in concrete."