OK OK stop the multithread-crossing

][cEMAN**

OK a few points to note here......

1. 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 I don't care how many people YOU send back to kill your grandfather - remember YOU are the one who sent them back and anyone who did it of their own free will wold do so because they know you again causing a paradox.

ANY FORM OF INTELLIGENT LIFE TRAVEL THROUGH TIME WILL CAUSE A PARADOX PEOPLE - that is why the mulitdimensional theory exists.

2. Time is NOT 4 dimensional. Time IS a dimension. So are the X Y and Z axis of matter. each individually a dimension. Things which exist withing these dimensions HAVE those attributes but they're numbered simply as they are discovered.
ie. 3 dimensional refers to being within the frame of 3 dimensions rather than the 3rd dimesnion containing any other

3. I mentioned before about the quarks traveling backwards in time as science fact not fiction. I can't remember WHERE I read it but it WAS in a science journal. It's not MY theory it's a fact. If you don't want to believe it then that's OK but don't try to disprove something I did not start.....

4. It has been mensioned that Einsteins theory E=mc^2 is not exact for certain values of E and m therefore FTL is possible as his theory doesn't hold true for everything.

5. Yes it DOES matter if you show that 2 atomic clocks act differently in space or on earth as it is a fact that GRAVITY affects time in the way that time again IS simply a dimension. That is the point of proving this.....

6. Occy has pointed out the most important fact here - energy is constant in the universe therefore it can not be created or destroyed only transfered.

7. About free will and choices relating to dimensions.....a butterfly flaps his wings in China and there's a hurricane in Oklahoma.....
I don't know if this is urban legend or not but it is simply to explain to you that you ask why the dust reacts in that way.

Think. Maybe the wind put it there...why did the wind shift....maybe a man walked past....why did he walk past....and so on and so on.....you have to look at the BIGGER PICTURE.

Too many people get bogged down on the small things and don't incorperate them into the BIGGER picture.

8. Free will - does not exist. We are not our own person. nope nadda not happening. Only one way this would be possible and that would be to be dropped off anywhere from civilisation at birth...and even at that it would create it's own personality in us. We are victims of our enviroment - we react to it and our personalities are created as such. We begin to learn at birth - infact even before....we learn and react from what is around us. OK? So rule out free will.....

This leads on to a personal theory of mine I just came up with.....(it also relates to the question mentioned before about free will and destiny and Occy's all energy is constant)

OK Energy is related to mass or so we believe. Now we know that the big bang theory is in a cycle - in a few hundred billion years the universe will have totaly contracted into another ball of mass and energy and then the big bang will happen all over again (the universe has already begun to contract and galaxies are swalling up solar systems again....). Now because of this and that energy is constant - What if dimensions are as well?

What if there IS a larger force which has predetermined existance and is sitting watching it in re-runs?

It would mean 1 of 2 things - alternate realities do not exist as life is preset therefore timetravel will never exist
or
Alternate dimensions and realities may exist but again are predetermined along with everything that occurs within them or happens across them.

In the end we will all end up as energy and the big bang will happen again.

QUOTE from GROUNDHOG day "Maybe god isn't a god but just some guy who has been around and seen it all happen before?"

Some people may have that thought. Personaly I think he does exist as science is TOO structured. Even choas theory has a structure.... he can't be some guy watching as again it could all be unstrcutured chaos - someone must have a hand in it all!!

I think the only way we will ever know this is when the big bang reoccurs if we can stay around that long.

When the big bang happened ot created matter and antimatter and it was rought out of energy. It WAS however created in what we realte to as a vacuum - nothingness lack of either matter antimatter or energy.

At the moment energy passes through though space is still nothingness. Now if we determine where the big bang will occur and travel away from it we will either negate the actual big bang thus cheating fate with the enrgy imbalance or we will see from a distance what the emaningn of the universe is.

Think about it

BoneCollector

structure to science is very similar to structure of Life! (evoltuion or mother nature)

People seem the see mother nature as someone or thing that sort things out when something bad happens.
However, evolution has nothing to do with mother nature and has alot to do with Chance! (chaos) out of which comes order!

2 birds are born from a family of non=airborn birds.
However one of them was born with a deformity.
it can fly.
there is a forest fire and all birds are destroyed except the bird that can fly because it took off the momment the firestarted.
a few years later all birds of this type can fly.
structure or mother nature had nothing to do with this, it was chance that this bird was born and perpetuated the species to survive in this marner.
the same applies to science and all its laws.
these laws are base on current theories and are always under reviewe to be proven or disproven in the future.

ANY FORM OF INTELLIGENT LIFE TRAVEL THROUGH TIME WILL CAUSE A PARADOX PEOPLE - that is why the mulitdimensional theory exists.

Like everything else, this is a theory to be proven or disproven.
however if we concider time is fluid and flows in one direction and it is ourselves that will swim either against the tide or with it.
the time traveler who travels to the past from the future, exists as a result of the past, so before he makes his journey is already part of the past he is about to visit and once again become part of.., which was already created by the traveler before he made the journey.
once again read the tag line at the bottom....

bonkey

Originally posted by ][cEMAN**
ANY FORM OF INTELLIGENT LIFE TRAVEL THROUGH TIME WILL CAUSE A PARADOX PEOPLE - that is why the mulitdimensional theory exists.

Not true.

First off, "multidimensional" is the wrong term - our concept of a 3d world is multi-dimensional, as is our theory of time as a 4th dimension. Superstring theory uses n-dimensional.

If you mean "multiple reality" or "alternate timeline" theories or anything like those, then they do not exist because time-travel would cause a paradox. They only have any bearing if time-travel is possible. If time-travel is not possible, then those theories have little / no relevance, as the paradox situation can never arise in the first place.

3. I mentioned before about the quarks traveling backwards in time as science fact not fiction. I can't remember WHERE I read it but it WAS in a science journal. It's not MY theory it's a fact. If you don't want to believe it then that's OK but don't try to disprove something I did not start.....

It is not a fact. I can guarantee that 100%. At best, it is an unproven theory who's validity may have been indicated to be correct through scientific experiment.

To put it simply, there is no such thing as "science fact" when dealing with this level of physics. We have two models : quantum and general relativity qhich are mutually exclusive. They cannot both be correct.

Therefore, we do not have a single, unshakeable basis to found other theories on. At best we have a number of models which can be applied to a number of situations, from which we can draw conclusions. These conclusions are then backed up (sometimes) by direct or indirect scientific measurement.

For quite some time, Newtonian theory was considered "science fact" until some clerk working in Bern wrote a theory of relativity which pretty much threw Newtonian physics out the window.

Until we have a unified theory (such as Superstring theory may become), we cannot have "science fact"/

6. Occy has pointed out the most important fact here - energy is constant in the universe therefore it can not be created or destroyed only transfered.

If, as you alleged in point 4, that particles can travel backwards through time, then energy can only be a constant if a particle is always travelling in the samre direction through time. If a particle can go from travelling forwards to backwards, or vice-verse, then conservation of energy is impossible.

Conversely, if particles can travel backwards through time (and always travel backwards through time) then to us, an observer travelling forwards through time, energy will appear constant, but any reaction in which this particle partakes, effect will preceed cause, and I'm pretty sure that this causes problems too.

8. Free will - does not exist. We are not our own person. nope nadda not happening. Only one way this would be possible and that would be to be dropped off anywhere from civilisation at birth...and even at that it would create it's own personality in us. We are victims of our enviroment - we react to it and our personalities are created as such. We begin to learn at birth - infact even before....we learn and react from what is around us. OK? So rule out free will.....

Free will and environmental influence are completely unrelated topics.

The only argument against free will would be if the universe were completely deterministic - which may or may not be true. If Quantum Uncertainty holds true in a unified theory, then the universe may not be deterministic and therefore free will does exist.

OK Energy is related to mass or so we believe. Now we know that the big bang theory is in a cycle - in a few hundred billion years the universe will have totaly contracted into another ball of mass and energy and then the big bang will happen all over

No, we dont know this.

There is no evidence, nor can there be, that our universe had a "precursor", the big crunch of whom led to our big-bang.

Furthermore, the scientific community is still divided over expansionist and contractionist models - the universe may never contract to a singularity again, if its current rate of expansion is sufficient to stay ahead of the attraction of gravity.

again (the universe has already begun to contract and galaxies are swalling up solar systems again....).

I have no idea wher eyou go this from, but the universe is definitely still expanding. We are nowhere near a contractionist phase.

You final theory is interesting, but I think you are misunderstanding the current theory of what happens as we get towards a big-crunch. It will be impossible to keep away from it, should one happen, under current theory.

Basically put, the contraction of the universe will also warp our dimensional space-time and force it to contract on itself. Put simply, you cannot escape the big crunch because there is nowhere to go.

Even if you could somehow escape, you still couldnt see what is happening, because at the very least you would be beyond hte event horizon of the black hole which had at its core the singularity which would become the big crunch.

jc

][cEMAN**

Sorry you're actually right about a few things I said there - I was just typing as it entered my head and I didn't re-read.

I keep saying mulitdimensional. I appoligise - too many science fiction programs. As you'll see I did explain dimensions and about each is individual. When I said this I did actually mean alternate timelimes etc.

As for me saying the universe is contracting - again I miswrote...what I meant to say is that it is STILL expanding but it has already started to slow IN it's rate of expansion. The idea being that when it does start to contract galaxies WILL devour solar systems again....

Actuall - I find that you're quite up on most of this.

Now like I said the first time I ever posted here. I appologise if what I say is BS. Tbh I haven't thought of any of this for years until I found this science board. Most of what I say is trying to remember Physics and science programs and journals that I read years ago. I stopped physics and went into a degree in mathematics Pure and Applied. It's been 7/8 years since I last though about any of my own theories which I have mentioned to Occy before.

I think we should talk in IRC some time. It would be very interesting if you Occy and myself talked as I think between the 3 of us we would have a LOT of old & new theories which have been forgotten about or which are just being created.

bonkey

Originally posted by ][cEMAN**
Sorry you're actually right about a few things I said there - I was just typing as it entered my head and I didn't re-read.

Dont be saying that! You'll give me a big(ger) head!

Now like I said the first time I ever posted here. I appologise if what I say is BS.

Hey - thats part of what the boards are for I'm questioning some of the established theory, mostly because it doesnt sit right with me and I know I'm missing something. My interpretations are probably wrong....I'm just trying to find out why!

I think we should talk in IRC some time. It would be very interesting if you Occy and myself talked as I think between the 3 of us we would have a LOT of old & new theories which have been forgotten about or which are just being created.

Yeah - definitely - sounds like fun. Sometime... no connection at home at the mo, though Must rectify that...

jc