Propaganda - Do you believe what you hear?

Dr. Loon

Alright.. don't know if this is the right board for this but...

Do you reckon that the news tells you everything truthfully? As far as I'm aware the Americans have taken out all the TV stations etc.. in Afghanistan, therefore the only news footage you get is Western, whether it be American or English or whatever... and as far as I can see it's all crap. The Irish news seems to be very objective, both critisising the States and Afghanistan at different levels. The news via the internet is generally Americanised or whatever as well. Now I'm not big up on politics and shít... I hate politics, but the little I do know and can see and figure out for myself, is that this whole thing is complete propaganda. The Americans say they are dropping food/medical supplies.... but where is it going to? Who's actually getting it... Some fighter pilot, came back saying he felt great, like he was "at the superbowl"...and it turns out he killed 4 UN representatives!!?

Just want to see the replies on this, becaus I'd like to see the opinions of people who are actually interested in this/politics!

tools

There were no tv stations in Afghanistan.
There seems to be a total news blackout which is no surprise really. All journalists are allowed to do is ask a few questions at press conferences which don't get answered. Sky News appear to have bought "rights" to the war and like someone else said all we're going to get is endless pictures of missiles taking off, no-neck top guns saying how they "just gotta do the job" and pitch black screens with occasional flashes indicating AA fire. The Qatar tv station Al Jazeera is the only vaguely independent source of news from Afghanistan but even that has been told to "tone down" its output by Colin Powell.
Has anyone heard Bush answer any questions? Where the fack is he?
So in answer to the question, no, you can't trust what anybody says. The allies will try control the release of information like they did in the Gulf War, but there was no internet then (was there? can't remember) so things might be different this time.

The Americans say they are dropping food/medical supplies.... but where is it going to?

Nobody knows. Chucking bags of food out of planes into areas that are probably mined to bejaysus is not helpful. The US and Britain has taken over control of aid distribution from normal channels so they get to decide where food and medicine goes and where it doesn't.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by tools
There were no tv stations in Afghanistan.
The Qatar tv station Al Jazeera is the only vaguely independent source of news from Afghanistan but even that has been told to "tone down" its output by Colin Powell.

I heard that any form of TV or whatever was taken out. There was a broadcast of Bin Laden, explaining on one channel how the Americans had treated them and that they experience things like the Americans have experienced for many years.... then on Sky news it showed the same broadcast without the translation and all they said was that Bin Laden said he's gonna get revenge and all this crap!? Any truth in that anyone know? Or is it more propaganda?

Dustaz

Can someone please make a sensible post here.
Someone who:
A. Knows the internet was around before they started playing CS online.

B. Doesnt qualify an argument that the conventional news media isnt reporting certain things with "well, I heard that....."

C. Has a clue.



thanks.

Hobbes

Even proproganda aside the news stations have a habit of "glossing" the news.

Take the 9-11 incident. I Watched a couple of channels that day as well as online and the number of planes that crashed ranged from 3 to 9 with 1 or 2 shot down, plus a helicopter hijacked and 2 car bombs.

The incident yesterday on the subway ranged from a full shootout with terrorist who dropped chemicals, to perfume, to cleaning solution and people caught in tear gas.

Clintons Cat

I recomend you search around the net for a translation on one of the arab sites if you are interested in finding out exactly what bin laden said.
Following the bin laden broadcast the americans first asked the journalists to tone down their coverage,then began painting the station as a propaganda tool of Osmid Bin Laden.
Ironically the quatar based satellite station has a reputation for impartiallity that has a tendency to infuriate middle eastern regimes used to their domestic media towing the government line.It will be a shame if American pressure upon the Emir of Quatar forces the station to shut.

adnans

im lucky enough to get my information from different sources and angles (irish tv, english tv, german tv through satellite, bosnian tv, american news channels through satellite and also the internet) so you can see the different propaganda from different sides, its funny sometimes.

american and western tv channels at least agree on one thing. how will we label this new war? you had "america under attack", "war on terror", "america fights back" etc, but now it looks all the major tv channels have unanimously agreed on one title "America Strikes Back". in a truly american media way they give respect to mr george lucas stopping short of including "empire" cause it would seem a tad too evil.

just to mention that the gulf war included restrictions on the press by the military and extensive campaign by the white house and pentagon to influence public opinion by presenting the americans with carefully controlled images and information concerning the war. this control of information not only distorts the accounts of what occurs during a war (granada, panama and persian gulf), but also threatens the historical record for future generations giving them a false image of what happened. the gulf war aim "to promote public support for predetermined agendas"

what to watch out for:

words such as surgical strikes, collateral damage, pinpoint precision, and laser-guided will definitely be mentioned along with all the lies. (if you can think of more words, put them in a 5x5 table, watch the news with your friends/family and listen for those keywords, whoever scores a line of five in any direction loudly shouts out "búll****" and wins the game)

• dont assume any fact to be true especially the ones about the military success and "collateral damage" resulting from the military action.
• watch the full video footage(if you can access it) just because they said something blew up something else, its best to see it for yorself.
• read the papers or online transcripts of full speeches from any party. ex, most media excluded bin laden's statement that "the army of infidels must depart the land of Mohammad" and only mentioned that peace must "reign in palestine".
• "allies" doesnt mean peace, harmony or right. we helped out the taliban in power (got rid of the soviets) along with good old saddam. pakistan and northern alliance also have tragic human rights records.
• watch out for questions not being asked by the media!!!
• read and listen to alternative press. dont trust them either fully.

also, try and have fun

adnans

Hobbes

Originally posted by Clintons Cat
I recomend you search around the net for a translation on one of the arab sites if you are interested in finding out exactly what bin laden said.

If you find a link or transcript post it here.

Von

Another oil war basically according to this Greek report here.

Clintons Cat

your wish is my command

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/011007/1/1jzgx.html

As adans noted the bits about "troops out of Saudi" got lost somewhere in the translation.

here is the case against Bin Laden as released by Downingstreet press office
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2001/10/ukreport.html
and some more background info on Al Queida
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/ladin.htm

Hobbes

This is kind of funny (well not funny haha).

I was searching around Paperboy looking for news on a particular item and I came across this story.

The Apology bit seemed a bit strange so I did a search for it in national paper of Korea and got this story.

Keeks

Just an example an American propaganda taken from the Gulf War. I don't have exact figures or links as yet (not that they are likley to be acurate. This info is from watching several documentaries on the gulf war over the years.

Remember all those SCUD missiles Saddam fire at Isreal, and that 90% were shot down by America's extremely effective Patriots Missle Defence system thingy.

WRONG.

More like 90% landed smack bang in the middle of Isreal, but amazingly it was all played down. I still don't know how.

But there are thousands of inaccuracies in every war.

The western world aren't always the good guys.

In my opinion the food drops by the U.S. is gernally to the the Northern alliance on their side as they are watching the events unfold like us on CNN. ( it was report somewhere on sky)

Hobbes

can someone explain the food drops to me? High Altitude and no parachute?

Someone told me that they are scattering individual packages which flutter to the ground and weigh the same as a hardback book.

Apart from the fact a hardback book hitting at terminal velocity is probably going to kill or do damage, the video they have on the news of the planes doing the drops shows them throwing large crates out.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Dustaz
Can someone please make a sensible post here.
Someone who:
A. Knows the internet was around before they started playing CS online.

B. Doesnt qualify an argument that the conventional news media isnt reporting certain things with "well, I heard that....."

C. Has a clue.

:rolleyes: Don't be such a twat. You may recall, that I was looking for opinions... not definite facts!! I heard exactly what I said from different people..... I want to know if any of you heard the same thing. So don't patronise me ye git.

At the same time... the rest of the replies are worth while... I just don't believe any of the crap Sky or most news channels report... so I try not to watch them. The food drops are apparently... just being dropped from high altitudes and nobody really knows who's getting their hands on them, or where they go... i.e - into a nice little minefield or what. I reckon it's to make the Americans look good. In my opinion all the politics and crap surrounding it is all exaggerations or lies, and any speech I see with Mr Bush písses me off.... why is he trying to be an actor!? Smell the fart type of acting as well... i.e - Bad.

Anyway, I'm gonna scour the internet for more information... nice 1

Enygma

The news last night said that the yanks are also dropping radios that are only capable of recieving one signal, western news, propaganda. The reporter actually called it propaganda which was kind of a relief, looks like at least the Irish news is still objective.
The reporters that are being allowed onto the Ships are not *buying* their way on, they are selected by the military as reporters that they can "trust".
In the Gulf some of the first targets to be hit were TV and Radio stations.
I read an article in the examiner last night that said if 35,000 food packages are dropped they might feed 35,000 people for one day. The packages might also land on land mine infested areas.
Each package has the words "A gift from the American people" written on it. The Afghans are seeing this as a political statement, which it is really.


I bet after this is over we'll have guys praising the honest and truthful coverage of this campaign. "The truth has not been compromised". The truth is, we don't know the half of whats going on.

The first casualty of every war is truth.

ConUladh

Watching BBC this morning and they had some guy on talking about psychological warfare,

They were basically saying that in this case it involves :

1) Food drops
2) Pamphlet drops (proven method in Korea apparently)
3) BBC and Voice Of America(think that was the name) set up shop nearby to broadcast (radio) into Afghanistan
4) Suppression of enemy television broadcasts in the States (reckoned that hidden messages story is irrelevant as it's standard fare to suppress your enemy's words)

Interesting to see no spin being put on things, though they couldn't help themselves when it came to number 3, they had to refer to is as impartial coverage

adnans

alright, after checking out internet and news i got this info toghether. the humanitarian effort happened when the "wave after wave" of planes attacked various targets in afghanistan. general richard myers in a press conference shown live on cnn and bbc went on to be questioned by journalists. myers is the top guy in the US military and a spokesman for the joint chiefs of staff. he admitted that 37500 rations were being dropped, not all being food. some of it was medicine. he then went on to admit that the drop method was “pretty similar” to the drop methods used in Bosnia. you remember the ones that killed people? the reasons they kill is because they are dropped without parachutes. great big crates fall from the sky, and this time the drops were done in high altitude. one journalist asked how can people find these rations and wont they be destroyed upon impact? general myers replied by taking another question.

major bob stewart, former commander of the UK forces in Bosnia, called the drops “only a token effort” (bbc news 24) although he supported them. james rubin (“tibet is part of china, that’s settled, tibet is part of china” bbc radio 5 live), the former white house spokesman, didn’t agree. he called it “a massive humanitarian effort” (cnn)

the only reason the air drop of 37500 rations is occuring now is because of the widespread people movement from afghanistan and their imminent starvation is due to the US military response. this fact that serves as a lie is a window dressing. us government new policy - "we lie by not telling you things"

adnans

Dustaz

I cant believe you actually expect to get anything resembling the truth from the media during a state of war. of course govt's control the media at times like these. Do you really think that afghan tv (if it exists) or iraqi tv is providing balanced coverage?

And as to the patriot missles during the gulf war, Apparently the exact number of Scuds shot down by a patriot missle is exactly nil. According to a western made doco about the gulf war anyway.