The IrelandOffline Blackout (RFC)

dahamsta

I've been trying to prepare a proposal on the matter of a boycott for submission to IrelandOffline for a few days - hell, I've been trying to prepare a cheque for a few weeks - but I just don't seem to have the time. So here it is in an adam-sized (large) nuthshell. I've started a new thread because I think this is important, and the other thread is getting disjointed. We need to concentrate here, this is important.

Around or about the October Holiday (29th is a Bank Holiday) seems like as good a time as any to me. It's the weekend before Halloween, and we can use that to our advantage. Before I realised that, I thought "The Blackout" was a nice title, but then I remembered Halloween, and you just can't get better than "The Halloween Blackout", which is no doubt how the media will phrase it. Personally speaking, I think it should just be entitled "The IrelandOffline Blackout", and we should let the media make the connection themselves, but that's neither here nor there.

What I suggest for the day, or weekend, or as long as we can carry it, is not a simple boycott of the Internet, or email, or even taking down webpages, but a concerted effort with options for everyone. For a start, we prepare a mini website for the effort, with general information, and plenty of information and options for businesses and consumers on how to get involved.

Before I lay out the options, I need to speak a moment about the duration. Halloween is actually on a Wednesday this year, which makes it difficult, in that it won't tie up exactly with the holiday weekend. That said, I don't think it matters that much in the long run, the media will pick it up. For businesses who really want to make an effort, Friday is the best day, as it's traditionally the slowest day of the week for small businesses. It's also good for consumers, because a lot of them head for the pubs and clubs on a Friday, but the whole weekend is pretty good.

Personally, I favour spanning the protest over the entire holiday weekend, with a "main day" set aside, and people joining when they can. In my minds eye, I see Friday being the main day, because it would be good to use an actual business day to make a statement. This might be a problem with the holiday weekend, but that's just a problem we'll have to deal with. The options are as follows:

1) Don't use the Internet for the day/weekend.
2) Don't use email for the day/weekend.
3) Don't use your phones for the day/weekend.
4) Take down your website for the day/weekend.

To expand on the first two, they include anything Internet related, anything that requires a dialup connection. It's simple - don't open up your browser for the day unless you're surfing the Intranet, leave the email on the server, forget about FTPing those files onto or off the server, close the newsreader. You can live a day or a weekend without email, right? (I just went a week without it, no bother!) And turn on the vacation response while you're at it, explaining *why* you're offline, and how to contact you in an emergency.

The third option is a little less important, or more important, depending on how you look at it. If you can. stick the answering machine on, with a nice polite message explaining why you're not available. Better yet, send them to an IrelandOffline website, we have plenty. If you can't afford to take the phones offline though, well and good, but try and make the statement another way. As to outgoing calls, how about keeping it to essential stuff? Do you really need to ring Maureen to tell her about your new haircut? Does that client *have* to know about the problem with his site *today*, or can it wait until Tuesday? How about using your mobile to make the call?

The fourth option is something that will hurt very few people in Ireland. Taking down your website for a weekend won't hurt *anybody*, believe me. It has to be said that Ireland is still pretty backwards when it comes to our websites, we get a few hits a day and three enquiries a month and we're delighted. Take it down, and take it down for as long as possible. Make that statement, let your clients and friends know just how much you care about the problem, and that you're actually *doing* something about it. IrelandOffline will supply you with a pretty page to replace it with, and we'll even help you take the site down and put it back up if you ask us. We'll even make a nice back up for you while we're at it, just in case.

What do you do in the meantime? Well, what do you want to do? Are there accounts piling up that need to be dealt with? Maybe it's time to get that C++ code out for another look, maybe inspiration will strike, a la Rincewind. How about going through the Inbox for the first time in months, and archiving some of that mail that's been piling up, or going through the website offline and tidying it up a bit? Or hell, take out the Nerf guns and zoink each other, whip out the scooters and have a race around the car park, have a Jolt Cola drinking competition, I don't care. Do something, anything, or nothing, just don't connect.

How does all that sound? I guess it might come across as disorganised, but that's the idea. Offer people as many different ways of protesting as you can. Make it easy for them to help, and even help them if they need it. If you know how to set up a vacation message, send an email on the LAN explaining the process. If you don't know how to change the message on your answering machine, post the model number and we'll find out for you. I'll gladly take down a hundred Linux/BSD hosted websites on the day if necessary - "it only takes a minute girl" - and I'll put them back up just the way I found them when I'm done. I have no doubt Bard will do a few ASP sites on request.

But take it down, take it offline, take it out of commission. If not for the weekend, then for the day. If you can't do it for a day, you need to do it anyway, for your sanity.

Most importantly, make Eircom suffer. In the pocket, and in the press. Make them blush. Make them cringe.

They deserve it. They've been *asking* for it.

adam

PS. For me, that was a nutshell. Consider yourself lucky.

dahamsta

Bard, do me a favour and add a poll to the top of this please?

Question: Would you take part in the suggested "IrelandOffline Blackout" protest?

Four answers:

Yes, I would take part.
No, I would be unable to take part.
No, I would be unwilling to take part.
Maybe, I'm unsure at this time.

You can delete this afterwards if you wish.

adam

Bard

nice idea.

done- as requested.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by dahamsta
I've been trying to prepare a proposal on the matter of a boycott for submission to IrelandOffline for a few days

:rolleyes:

No offense but hasn't this been thrashed around multiple times before ? The only situation where a boycott of any kind is workable is where a significant impact can be made. You can't persuade me that the numbers of people affected by IOFFL and this board are sufficient to make any significant impact.
Result = pointless

sutty

Hi, I don’t post here really, but I do read it. It’s a nice idea that you have but there are some problems with it. (For companies)

1. Not using the web can really hurt a company in the Financial/Job/Research/IT Sector's.

2. Not using e-mail for any company will more than likely cause a major disruption to it.

3. Not using external lines will not work, as most of the calls made will be for company use. But it may work better than the other two Ideas.

4. Companies with leased lines pay for a year/month flat rate. So it will not cost Eircom anything but it will cost the company.

5. You would need a lot of media cover, but small ad's in the Irish Times will not cut it. You will need a big eye catching ad with bright colours. This will cost a lot of money...same goes for TV and RADIO. As for a web site.... who’d know about it unless you advertised about it...again costing money (lets face it, your average "surfer" will not do a search for "Ireland Off Line"..........bottom line.... you need cash and lots of it.

6. You want to make your mind up...is this agents Eircom or every Telecom in Ireland?

---

<What you can do>

---

1. Why not do what the commies do...a few weeks before the no money day, they go to the top of Grafton ST. With pretty banners and stuff and tell people about it.

2. Try a march down a well-known street. Hell if Dad's that don’t get allot of custody time can do it and get noticed................you can do it to. But make sure you have a good public speaker as your frunt man/woman.





ps...sorry for any bad spellings, this is ment as a real and meaningful reply to your post.

Bard

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man

Result = pointless

As long as your type of attitude is in the majority - the easily giving up and disbelieving type - then yes, the result is pointless.

I for one, don't believe that it is.

Good on ya Adam.

Smokin' and etc.... if you've nothing useful/helpful to say... you know the rest.

JANER

I am totally hooked on my internet but i would do it........
prob not get enough people but something has to be done
the advertisement in the paper sounded good......if expensive but if we all chipped in
we get advertise the costs and compare it to uk but mostly emphasise the cost and how the package Eircom offer actually will stunt Irelands internet growth etc

sure some of you can word it better lol
but my ideas anyway

Kairo

Great idea! I said it myself already...don't mean to claim ownership of it. It's just I don't read these boards often enough. I think the idea of everyone chipping in for the newspaper ad. would be great.

You have my full support!

P.S. Why is there a new topic in my name about the boycott on Eircom? I did not post it. And the text of the thread was actually a post on another topic about Unmetered, local internet calls.

Whats up with that?

logic1

Hi,

I've done a number of websites for people and after speaking with these parties they have agreed to take down the sites for the weekend and put up an Ireland Offline info page.

.logic.

dahamsta

Hi sutty,

[I'm using "you" below mostly as the third person, not particularly in reference to you. Don't get offended, because I won't let you.]

It’s a nice idea that you have but there are some problems with it. (For companies)

Before you even start, I have to shout from the rooftops - of course there will be problems. No matter what you, or I, or anybody suggests, there will be problems. That's why I've taken the ideas suggested over the past few weeks and rolled them all into one - to minimise the problems. If we offer as many different ways of protesting as possible, there has to be at least one option people can take advantage of. View it as a menu - this is what you can do, pick as many as you can afford, and make your voice heard. If you can't afford it, don't do it, simple as that. If you don't want to do it, well, you mustn't care all that much about your comms, eh?

1. Not using the web can really hurt a company in the Financial/Job/Research/IT Sector's.

Most of the membership of IrelandOffline is small businesses and consumers, therefore I'm not targeting large companies in the classes you mention above. As to SME's, well, I'm an SME myself, and not only that, I'm an SME that runs his *entire* business on the Internet. I'm going to have to branch off now and discuss the Internet as a whole, not just the web, so I can get my point across. Bear with me, as those annoying operators say...

My business partner is in the United States, and I've met him twice and talked to him less than a half-dozen times on the phone since we went into partnership about three years ago, yet we run a reasonably successful web development and hosting company (my servers, it should be pointed out, are 500 and 3500 miles away respectively). My clients live and work all over the world, and I usually tend to meet them 2-3 times to discuss a project, the rest of our communication is done via the Internet. I encourage my customers to use email with other colleagues, and minimise use of the phone and personal meetings unless it's really required. I train them how to use the web properly as a matter of course.

Are you getting the picture? I use the Internet every day to run my business, probably to a greater extent than more than 90% of the businesses in Ireland. Like most businesses in Ireland, I'm an SME, and I'm willing to shut down *everything* for four days to support this cause, because it *needs* to be supported. Why? Because my business is being screwed out of revenue by Eircom. Eircom are cutting heavily into my profit margins. That effect is lessened the less you use the Internet, but it's still there, and if I can afford to shut down my comms for a weekend, I'm stating categorically that the majority of Irish SME's can do the same, with little or no *long-term* affect on revenue. If you can't shut down your comms for a day, your business is in trouble anyway.

To come back to the web, yes, there are companies that can't afford to stop using the web, but they just have to pick another way of protesting that will have less of an effect on the daily running of their business. Do they have a website? Take it down. Do they have an IVR telephone system? Add a protest message. Do they have vacation response handlers for their email? Turn them on, they'll still get their email. Don't make it hard for people to protest sutty, make it easy. Point out the negatives, but also point how to turn them into positives. Think long term - if this protest embarasses Eircom and the Irish government into action, we'll have achieved our aim - cheaper comms and better products. In the long term, it pays off much better than any short-term losses.

2. Not using e-mail for any company will more than likely cause a major disruption to it.

We're talking about small Irish companies here, most of whom don't even use the Internet to the max. We're talking about one day, are you telling me every small business in Ireland is unable to go without email for one day? What about the day the Exchange server went down - ye lived without it that day, didn't ye? Not only that, but as I've said, most Irish companies that I know of could *do* with a day without comms, get some real work done. But even that aside, like I said above, if you can't live without it, that's fine, protest another way.

3. Not using external lines will not work, as most of the calls made will be for company use. But it may work better than the other two Ideas.

Like I said above, I hardly use my phones for calls, but I'm the exception to the rule. But you can still use your phones. If you have an IVR, get the initial message changed to state your support of the Blackout. If you have an answering machine, do the same, and ask the customer to leave a number so you can call them back on your mobile. It's not all or nothing here, it's a concerted effort to do the best you can to support a very important cause.

4. Companies with leased lines pay for a year/month flat rate. So it will not cost Eircom anything but it will cost the company.

Most of the companies we're talking about here are SME's who don't have leased lines because they can't afford them, and that's *exactly* why we're here. We're looking for flat-rate Internet and affordable broadband services. If they can afford a leased line, I'd be delighted if they'd support us - if affordable DSL came in, they might be able to get rid of that leased line - but they're not who we're targeting here. Not only then, but it should be crystal clear by now - there are other ways of protesting. I can't stress that enough.

5. You would need a lot of media cover, but small ad's in the Irish Times will not cut it. You will need a big eye catching ad with bright colours. This will cost a lot of money...same goes for TV and RADIO. As for a web site.... who’d know about it unless you advertised about it...again costing money (lets face it, your average "surfer" will not do a search for "Ireland Off Line"..........bottom line.... you need cash and lots of it.

I never suggested taking out small ads, because I don't believe there's a need for small ads. Sure, if we can afford it, hell, let's go for it, but we don't *need* them. Do you like the idea of this protest? Tell your friends. Use the medium at your fingertips - send them an email. Add a sigfile to your email supporting the Blackout and explaining how to take part with a link to the website. Add a sig to your Boards.ie profile, and any other forums you populate. Tell your buddies in the pub. We don't *need* the popular press, because they'll come looking for us when they see the affect we have.

6. You want to make your mind up...is this agents Eircom or every Telecom in Ireland?

Every telco in Ireland. If you dial into Oceanfree, you're giving money to both Esat and Eircom, and neither deserve it. Eircom because they're complete bastards that have taken Ireland from behind since they started, and Esat because they've been lackadaisical about the whole thing for the past four years. They've sat on their arses and done little or nothing when they should have been taking full page ads in the newspapers, lodging complaints with the ODTR and the government, and generally bitching and whining to anyone who will listen to them. What have they done? Nothing. Screw them. I feel sorry for some of the smaller telco's, but they'll profit out of this too in the long term (bitstream, LLU), and let's face facts, the Irish telecommunications industry is run like a cartel. It's time we did something about it, it's about time we started our own cartel to control the telco's. Nobody else seems to be doing it?

1. Why not do what the commies do...a few weeks before the no money day, they go to the top of Grafton ST. With pretty banners and stuff and tell people about it.

2. Try a march down a well-known street. Hell if Dad's that don’t get allot of custody time can do it and get noticed................you can do it to. But make sure you have a good public speaker as your frunt man/woman.

Well, there's a couple of options for you then. Will you do that? How far are you willing to go? Will you print up leaflets, paint the banners? Will you shout and roar at any politicians and media that come up to you until they get it into their heads that we won't go away until something is done? Will you sit down over a burger in MacD's and explain what the problems are, and how they can be fixed? I'll go with you if you want. I'll have shag all else to do that weekend.

ps...sorry for any bad spellings, this is ment as a real and meaningful reply to your post.

And taken as such, but just think about that, and the above paragraph for a minute. You're knocking my suggestions and making your own - just how far are you willing to go to support this? If you're willing to go the extra mile, I'll support you, but notice that I'm not knocking your ideas. So please, try and be constructive.

adam

dahamsta

I've done a number of websites for people and after speaking with these parties they have agreed to take down the sites for the weekend and put up an Ireland Offline info page.

Yaay! Well done logic. That's the kind of input we need here!

Good job,
adam

dahamsta

Two more points that I feel need to be made:

1) In response to smokin' an'chewin' man:

Thanks for being so constructive dude, that's a real frickin' help. If we all had that attitude, IrelandOffline wouldn't exist and Eircom and the government wouldn't be worried, even if it's only a tiny bit. We need to be constructive and positive here, not negative and destructive. If you haven't got something constructive to say, don't say anything at all, you're not helping.

That said, I'll allow this momentary lapse into madness and address your concerns:

No offense but hasn't this been thrashed around multiple times before ?

Yes, it has, but it's been disorganised and the discussion has wandered. However it has also generated quite a lot of interest and discussion *on-topic*, and I'm just trying to focus that.

The only situation where a boycott of any kind is workable is where a significant impact can be made. You can't persuade me that the numbers of people affected by IOFFL and this board are sufficient to make any significant impact.

We're not just talking about IrelandOffline here, we're talking about the hundreds of thousands of people who are adversely affected by overpriced comms and shoddy product offerings every day. What, do you think we're just going to tell IrelandOffline members and leave it at that? No way, Jose, we're going to tell all our friends, enemies, colleagues and acquaintances. We're going to tell the press, the radio, the television. And not only in Ireland, we're also going to talk to Wired, C|Net, Slashdot, hell, we're going to bug CNN and Sky News until they sit up and take notice. And believe me, if we push enough people into this, they *will* sit up and take notice when they see the effect. We need to do what the name of our organisation says, take Ireland Offline.

2) We need to get a position from the committee here. This is why I was putting it together originally, for peer review and for the review of the committee. I realise the committee is busy with other things, but would it be possible to have a wee discussion and post an interim decision?

adam

Q_Ball

I voted Yes to the poll so I wont be using the phone or the i-net for the proposed dates. Unfortunately I dont use the phone an awful lot and I use no-limits to connect to the net.

What i guess i'm trying to say is that even tho i want to do this it doesnt feel like i'm doing enough to try and help the situation.

I'm also boycotting eircom dsl.

Anything else i can do to help?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Q_Ball
I voted Yes to the poll so I wont be using the phone or the i-net for the proposed dates. Unfortunately I dont use the phone an awful lot and I use no-limits to connect to the net.

If you don't connect through nolimits for that day, less money is going to Eircom for the day - much the same as if you were connected through UTVInternet. It's just that you don't pay them directly.

Straker

I'll be participate in the boycott (that goes for my business, aswell). Hell, I'd just like to do something more to let €ircon know I'm totally disgusted with them (... already written to them, & my local TD).

"Result = pointless"

Whether the boycott is a success, or not, doesn't matter... anyway I don't have a crystal ball. I won't be surprised if it is... especially when the media get their hands on it.

Boston

Hmm why the weekend, is it so the bussiness members wont be effected?
the weekdays will have a bigger effect as they make more money on the weekdays, and id have no problem in doing so on the weekdays, but not the weekend were it would have little effect.

dahamsta

You didn't read the post fully «Bo§ton». Go back and read it again.

adam

ekehoe

Originally posted by dahamsta
We're going to tell the press, the radio, the television. And not only in Ireland, we're also going to talk to Wired, C|Net, Slashdot, hell, we're going to bug CNN and Sky News until they sit up and take notice. And believe me, if we push enough people into this, they *will* sit up and take notice when they see the effect. We need to do what the name of our organisation says, take Ireland Offline.

Dang straight. I have colleagues at Wired, C|Net, ZDNet and CNN, so we'll see when this goes through what we can get on. I have a feeling that Sky could be interested as well... And with the amount of publicity we got from the seminar, we can get some great coverage here. I'll also do some TV3 kicking to see if this time they can actually get a crew somewhere. What about a nice little gathering that weekend somewhere (outside, so we don't have to pay for another hotel) central for everyone?

2) We need to get a position from the committee here. This is why I was putting it together originally, for peer review and for the review of the committee. I realise the committee is busy with other things, but would it be possible to have a wee discussion and post an interim decision?

I haven't been on the boards in a little bit, this is the first I've heard of it. I'll pass on to the committee and see what the consensus is...

E

Boston

Originally posted by dahamsta
You didn't read the post fully «Bo§ton». Go back and read it again.

adam

actualy i did, and i understand your open to others days, i just dont see the reasoning behind a weekend strike,

dahamsta

What about a nice little gathering that weekend somewhere (outside, so we don't have to pay for another hotel) central for everyone?

What, like in a field in Athlone?

I haven't been on the boards in a little bit, this is the first I've heard of it. I'll pass on to the committee and see what the consensus is...

Thanks Elena. I'd really like to push ahead with this if the committee could come up with consensus. I've already started writing some of the webpages.

adam

dahamsta

actualy i did, and i understand your open to others days, i just dont see the reasoning behind a weekend strike,

Ok, well maybe I didn't phrase it well enough then.

What I'm suggesting is that the Blackout begins on Friday the 26th of October, targetted primarily at businesses - but of course everyone will be welcome to join it - and that it continue throughout the weekend, with people joining in if and when they're able.

For example, you could use your mobile instead of the landline for phone calls, and maybe knock the Internet on the head for one day, Sunday or the Bank Holiday Monday maybe (or the whole weekend if you wish, even better).

Also, to clarify, the primary protest over the weekend from a business perspective would be websites being taken down on Friday and left down until Tuesday if at all possible. As I said, there'll be plenty of sysadmins here to help.

adam

pete

Originally posted by ekehoe


What about a nice little gathering that weekend somewhere (outside, so we don't have to pay for another hotel) central for everyone?

Much as i hate the "beautiful game", how about a five a side football tournament for members on the saturday or sunday in a park somewhere in Dublin.

Except you invite (in the press release) Eircom, Esat and the ODTR to field teams?

Yes, i'm serious.

exiztone

Hey, I like the idea, Make some posters would you
I want to post them around the school and give flyers out to everyone
ill mail one to every eircon executive too lmao!

sceptre

I say "let's go ahead and do it"
(and I wouldn't normally be the kind of person who would believe that such a thing would work)

Two things though:

1. I quite like the idea of a march somewhere (preferably through Dublin, passing Eircom's head office on Stephen's Green (Dublin 2), Esat's office in Dublin (Dublin 2) and the Dail (Dublin, er 2 I think). Maybe on the Saturday before. If we even get a hundred people to do the march I think we should do it. It would be publicity for the "no net period". Or if we're not that worried about the publicity, do it on the Saturday of the "no net period"
(I realise that the Dail doesn't meet on Saturday and that most TDs won't be there - I don't think that matters - we wouldn't be let in the front gate anyway, if anything we wouldn't be blocking the national parliament, something we might not want to do)

2. The "no net period" may or may not be a success. It doesn't matter too much as long as we do it again. Not at the same time each month - declare a "no net time" every once in a while. Later events may cause the idea to gather momentum.

Just two quick thoughts, make of them what you will.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

I quite like the idea of a march somewhere (preferably through Dublin, passing Eircom's head office on Stephen's Green (Dublin 2), Esat's office in Dublin (Dublin 2) and the Dail (Dublin, er 2 I think). Maybe on the Saturday before. If we even get a hundred people to do the march

That would be very feasible- they're all w/in 10 mins of each other.

Stephens Green, Wicklow St. and The Canal.

I'd be for that !

Macker

ok I'm in

dahamsta

That's the spirit folks. This doesn't just have to be about the net, we can promote and protest in many, many ways. All ways for that matter, as long as it's peaceful and not too disruptive. Posters, flyers, marches, hell, chain yourself to railings if that's your thing, but do something.

To cover the march in particular, why have it the week before, why not keep it all together? Granted, there's a possible small advantage from a media-attention-grabbing perspective by having it the week before, but if this goes as well as it should, we likely wouldn't need it.

By the by, I've fired together a wee webpage that could be used as a placeholder on sites that have been removed at the time, you can have a wee peek here. It's just a draft, but you get the idea.

adam

dahamsta

how about a five a side football tournament for members on the saturday or sunday in a park somewhere in Dublin. Except you invite (in the press release) Eircom, Esat and the ODTR to field teams?

That'd be comical, but I think the rally would draw more media attention, especially if we get a good crowd[1]. That said, I like the idea. We could halt the march outside the uh, defendants? perpetrators? offices for a few minutes each time we pass one, and send one person in with a note of protest (or better, a hefty petition) and an invitation for them to come out and defend themselves. Very Mark Thomas, very cool. Hey Elena, you'd nearly get a few TV cameras for that, wouldn't you?

I want to stress though, that although I'm very much in favour of a rally and a march, I would not attend or I would leave immediately if there was even the suggestion of violence or disruptive behaviour. But then I guess we don't have the energy, what with us sitting in front of our computers all day surfing the n... uh... never mind...

adam

[1] Folks, I'm there ok. I know I've said I'll be there before, but this time I'll really be there. Promise. Scouts Honour. Cross My Heart and Playtex.

Boston

Originally posted by dahamsta

I want to stress though, that although I'm very much in favour of a rally and a march, I would not attend or I would leave immediately if there was even the suggestion of violence or disruptive behaviour. But then I guess we don't have the energy, what with us sitting in front of our computers all day surfing the n... uh... never mind...

adam

[1] Folks, I'm there ok. I know I've said I'll be there before, but this time I'll really be there. Promise. Scouts Honour. Cross My Heart and Playtex.

So what's happening, are you having a march on the eircom building or what? when will it happen? seems to be afew dates going around, you would want to get it sorted out soon. also I think you need to let the corpo or something like them, know 31 days in advance. They were talking about bringing in that rule and I don't know if they did.
Also Adam, while allot of people talk tuff on the net, chance are they would piss themselves when faced with a gardi, most wont even have to bottle to turn up. But like all marchs you will probably need stewards.

Ps ill be there if there is one,

Pss how will we be able to know if the black out has any effect. I mean is there a place you can go and get daily reginal internet access stat from.

mewso

First of all I'd like to voice my support of this idea and I will take part, not as business though so it'll be less of a pain to me bar my online gaming addiction.
I also want to address the tone on this topic which I feel is wrong. Ireland Offline was presumably created to represent all Irish users of the internet and the lack of a decent service, broadband access erc. As representatives you are somewhat beholden to who you represent unlike say Eircom's board of directors who should but aren't as far as we can tell. Not to mention the scandalous Valencia sell-out situation. I'm sure most of us would agree that IOL has done a good job and this blackout should hopefully make a good impression. But I don't think we should be too elitist to virtually ban any negative comments. We should welcome them. One person posted a negative comment and he could well have been voicing concerns alot of people have. But those other people won't post here now because they have been virtually instructed to post positive thoughts only. We need to have everyone behind this and must address any doubts people have about it.
Flame me if you will and yes I know that the negative comments were addressed but have we invited other doubts to be voiced?

Boston

Originally posted by musician
First of all I'd like to voice my support of this idea and I will take part, not as business though so it'll be less of a pain to me bar my online gaming addiction.
I also want to address the tone on this topic which I feel is wrong. Ireland Offline was presumably created to represent all Irish users of the internet and the lack of a decent service, broadband access erc. As representatives you are somewhat beholden to who you represent unlike say Eircom's board of directors who should but aren't as far as we can tell. Not to mention the scandalous Valencia sell-out situation. I'm sure most of us would agree that IOL has done a good job and this blackout should hopefully make a good impression. But I don't think we should be too elitist to virtually ban any negative comments. We should welcome them. One person posted a negative comment and he could well have been voicing concerns alot of people have. But those other people won't post here now because they have been virtually instructed to post positive thoughts only. We need to have everyone behind this and must address any doubts people have about it.
Flame me if you will and yes I know that the negative comments were addressed but have we invited other doubts to be voiced?

Not to sure i follow what your saying, but i do agree that there need to be a voice of decent, it helps things along.


Ive another idea in connection to this one, that no one use an eircom isp, i know eircom will still make .6p at least per call, but better then the full amounth.

If all Ireland off lines supporters stoped using eircom.net and indigo im sure eircom would stand up and take notice.

there are many other isp's with alot better service

o_donnel_abu

Originally posted by dahamsta
We need to get a position from the committee here. This is why I was putting it together originally, for peer review and for the review of the committee. I realise the committee is busy with other things, but would it be possible to have a wee discussion and post an interim decision?

adam

Adam

Sorry that committee response has been 'patchy' - this is not due to lack of support for this idea.

I have emailed you directly about this with few comments/ideas of my own and I hope we can have 'official' committee statement inside next couple of days.

Martin Harran
Chairman Ireland Offline

PhilipMarlowe

Good Idea in general and I'll do whatever I can to support the blackout in my place...

Re: the holding page...

Would it be possible to have a statement, like a pre-written letter, so that people who visit sites that are downed could click to send a message of their support/complaint to eircom? Also, this email would be cc'ed to another account as a means of measuring the effectiveness?
I know that measuring it might only be interesting rather than useful but it might be worth it?

I'd leave it up to a professional to figure it out but I presume that you could create a link that would work on everybodys page that would call some script or other on one site to send the email off......

disConnected

Well, I am definitely in for it...

I'll make my way down to Dublin for the marching as well. But I would leave the demo immediately if some fool would decide to take the march as an excuse for violence or rude behaviour.
The only way we will achieve our goals is by using clean, nonviolent actions only.

Boston

Originally posted by disConnected
But I would leave the demo immediately if some fool would decide to take the march as an excuse for violence or rude behaviour.
The only way we will achieve our goals is by using clean, nonviolent actions only.

Damn, better leave the petrol bombs at home then. Seriously what's with the preoccupation with violence, agreed that if people were as vocal in real life about eircom as they are here, it might be something to be worried about, but I doubt any violence will happen, and if it does the person responsible will get a good kicking

sceptre

Originally posted by disConnected
Well, I am definitely in for it...

I'll make my way down to Dublin for the marching as well. But I would leave the demo immediately if some fool would decide to take the march as an excuse for violence or rude behaviour.
The only way we will achieve our goals is by using clean, nonviolent actions only.

Agreed. If we're going to continue to be taken seriously, no eggs etc.

dahamsta

Would it be possible to have a statement, like a pre-written letter, so that people who visit sites that are downed could click to send a message of their support/complaint to eircom?

Absolutely, although I would be inclined to put it on the support site rather than the splash page. I don't know what we'll end up with, but personally speaking I would be inclined to keep the splash page basic and minimal, and that goes for the content too, otherwise we'll end up with all sorts of crap on there. Which is not to say that your idea is crap, because it isn't, it's feasible and workable, and if the committee gave it the ok, we'd do it. But it should also be stated that if I have a part in this, I'll be working closely with the committee to make sure everything is decent and above board. We want to do this right, we don't want any hassle or litigation. Eircom can play dirty all they want, but we won't sink to their level.

Seriously what's with the preoccupation with violence, agreed that if people were as vocal in real life about eircom as they are here, it might be something to be worried about, but I doubt any violence will happen, and if it does the person responsible will get a good kicking

Because that's *exactly* the kind of talk and behaviour we simply /don't want/. Eircom have already tried to back down from one event citing the mutterings of morons on these very boards as the reason for their non-participation. If we start talking about violent actions like you mentioned above, even if only in jest, Eircom will try and make us out like a bunch of militant loonies and you'd better believe the media will swallow it. So please, tone it down.

adam

acous

If this blackout is symbolic, wouldnt it be more effective to hold it for just 1 day?

I would be much more inclined to join in if it was on Friday instead of the whole weekend.

also, to the idea of only boycotting eircom... it would be easier to get the support of organisations affiliated with eircom if it was a generic telecommunications blackout.

dahamsta

If this blackout is symbolic, wouldnt it be more effective to hold it for just 1 day? I would be much more inclined to join in if it was on Friday instead of the whole weekend.

It's not for the whole weekend, that's optional. In fact, everthing is optional at the moment, nothing is set in stone. As I've already suggested, I would favour Friday as the primary day for the protest, with people joining in at the weekend where possible. I would also suggest that sites that are removed on Friday could be left down for the weekend, as long as it's not too detrimental to the organisation involved. I'll be leaving my sites down until Monday midnight.

also, to the idea of only boycotting eircom... it would be easier to get the support of organisations affiliated with eircom if it was a generic telecommunications blackout.

It is a generic telecommunications blackout.

[I knew we should have merged these threads!]

adam

pete

Originally posted by dahamsta
how about a five a side football tournament for members on the saturday or sunday in a park somewhere in Dublin. Except you invite (in the press release) Eircom, Esat and the ODTR to field teams?

That'd be comical, but I think the rally would draw more media attention, especially if we get a good crowd

And there's my two worries - I'd just be afraid that

a. the march would be poorly attended, and covered by the media, making IOFFL look like they've (we've) no support

b. the march would be well attended, and covered by the media in a "look at these nerds protesting over internet access - sure have they nothing more important to be worrying about??"

that's all.

I seriously think that a more informal get together might be a better option - and if some sort of spin or angle can be found that acts as a hook for the media, then all the better.

pete

sceptre

I think that, given the great work done so far by Elana, the media wouldn't be able to spin it in a "bloody nerds" way. Pointless just getting together informally without any purpose. This isn't a case of "we must do something, this is something, let's do this" (Eircom's marketing philosophy, perhaps I should add it to that list). This is something with a purpose.

If we decide to put the march off until some other time, fair enough, but I do see a purpose in it. Most of our PR so far has been via the Net and telling friends. Plus the mentions in the papers and on radio. This is a step forward in marketing IrelandOffline in another way. Even if the media don't cover it at all and we only get 50 or 100 people out (hey, it's a Saturday we're looking at - we got that many people to a mid-week afternoon seminar) at least people on the street will see a large banner saying "www.Irelandoffline.com" and the "affordable..." There are people out there with ideas (and friends) that haven't heard of us yet. Lots of them. We can hand out flyers explaining what we're doing at a march. People aren't going to see us as plonkers with too much time on their hands then.


Slightly aside - anyone know how much those stickers that radio stations give to people to put in the back windshield of their cars cost? Small enough to go on the inside of a business' window as well.

pete

"the meeja" can put whatever spin they want on it - whatever they think will get them the best story and help sell more papers - all they have to do is ignore the facts.

stranger things have happened

o_donnel_abu

Sorry for the delay in doing this but we want to formally state that the IrelandOffline committee totally support Adam's suggestion for this blackout protest.

As you can see elsewhere on this forum, we have officially co-opted Adam onto the IOFFL committtee. Over the next few days, we will pull together the various ideas and suggestions and put forward some firm proposals on how we should approach this.

Once again, Adam, well done on taking the initiative on this and delighted to have you 'on board' - pun intended

Martin Harran
Chairman, IrelandOffline

CoNfOuNd

It sounds like a brilliant plan to me, you have my support, but I don't have any eircom services, so hum...

I'll tell a few media contacts if that helps. And I might even make it down to dublin.

you don't know me? aren't you lucky

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Bard


As long as your type of attitude is in the majority - the easily giving up and disbelieving type - then yes, the result is pointless.

I for one, don't believe that it is.

Good on ya Adam.

Smokin' and etc.... if you've nothing useful/helpful to say... you know the rest.

Oh great. One member posts a wacky idea and another disagrees.

Out comes the MODERATOR, for god's sake, and more or less tries to shut the disagreer up.

Looks like the control freak is back in business and this board is being knobbled.

If Eircom or the ODTR is looking at this board they are sure to notice that free exchange of ideas is losing out to those in control of the board.

How is anyone to know that the views expressed here represent anyone ? And who the heck is the moderator to start telling people to shut up anyway ?

chernobyl

go E-Hub, ps, im Gladiators 2'nd account..not
:)

dahamsta

chernobyl test

logic1

*** Now talking in #linux
*** Topic is 'http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32149 - the most retarded idea in the world, sign up now.'
*** Set by Dogbert on Sat Sep 29 23:31:40

Taken from a topic in #linux on Phishynet (irc.indigo.ie)

Some people obviously don't feel the need for any kind of resolution to the current situation. This kind of foolishness is uneeded IMO.

.logic.

dahamsta

Originally posted by o_donnel_abu
Sorry for the delay in doing this but we want to formally state that the IrelandOffline committee totally support Adam's suggestion for this blackout protest.

As you can see elsewhere on this forum, we have officially co-opted Adam onto the IOFFL committtee. Over the next few days, we will pull together the various ideas and suggestions and put forward some firm proposals on how we should approach this.

Once again, Adam, well done on taking the initiative on this and delighted to have you 'on board' - pun intended

Martin Harran
Chairman, IrelandOffline

Thanks Martin.

adam

Bard

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man

Out comes the MODERATOR, for god's sake, and more or less tries to shut the disagreer up.

Looks like the control freak is back in business and this board is being knobbled.

...

And who the heck is the moderator to start telling people to shut up anyway ?

I'm not telling and didn't tell ANYONE to "shut up"...

I merely hinted that if you've nothing useful or helpful to say then you shouldn't contribute.

Disagreeing isn't necessarily unhelpful... sutty made a few good points, for example... but writing off an idea and saying that it's a pointless one without giving real and valid reasons for saying so ... is just plain pointless in itself and does not help the conversation.

Okay?