University funding

europerson

WigWam wrote:

It would be great to restore the Dublin, Oxford, Cambridge triangle, but I am pessimistic rather than optimistic and forsee (sic.) the trend of our brightest leaving cert students opting for Oxbridge/US over domestic universities becoming more and more pronounced.

Trinity's not bad, but it cetainly ain't a pick on what it used to be.

I agree in totality. Trinity needs to regain its academic excellence, and stop becoming a research centre for rich scientific companies. It ought to be a place where true academic potential can shine, and where this potential can be developed into the best research, regardless of its subject matter.

As this process continues, the top students, who have a keen academic interest, particularly in the Arts, are going to apply to the best UK institutions, i.e., Oxford and Cambridge, and even to Ivy League universities, if they're good enough.

The traditional triangle of Oxoniensis, Cantabrigia, and Dublinensis could be a much better structure, if the three institutions worked together more closely. At present the awarding of degrees ad eundem gradum and the annual inter-varsity debates is about as far as it goes. Surely this could be developed to mark out the three institutions as the premier universities of the British Isles. While all are members of the Coimbra Group (http://www.coimbra-group.be), I feel it does not do enough to promote the excellence of the member institutions. How many people have even heard of the Coimbra Group?

Nietzschean

europerson wrote:

I agree in totality. Trinity needs to regain its academic excellence, and stop becoming a research centre for rich scientific companies*. It ought to be a place where true academic potential can shine, and where this potential can be developed into the best research, regardless of its subject matter.

I've yet to see any research in my dept funded by private companies. But regardless, why do you think the college does it? cause it obviously can't get the funding elsewhere... modern world n all that. And tcd just doesn't have the same resources as the other big colleges...



*Talks and certain programmes for schools are however funded with the assistance of some companies. My personal experence, does not constitute 100% accuracy on the topic.

John

europerson wrote:

I agree in totality. Trinity needs to regain its academic excellence, and stop becoming a research centre for rich scientific companies. It ought to be a place where true academic potential can shine, and where this potential can be developed into the best research, regardless of its subject matter.

Funding for science research comes from funding bodies like the Science Foundation of Ireland, Wellcome, the Health Research Board and so on. I've yet to encounter any significant private funding, there might be small bits of money coming in but for the most part the researcher comes up with a novel idea, applies to various boards for funding, does research and gets the results.

And the fact that we have some of the leading lights in science working in the college speaks volumes. For example Luke O'Neill is a very well respected researcher in immunology (he's had papers in Nature and has written articles for Scientific American). In other news the Institute of Neuroscience has several different departments and faculties working together in the one building to unlock the brain. It's amazing to see all these different disciplines sharing ideas and perspectives. This is exactly what you say TCD should be doing and it's doing it. Maybe not everywhere but it is in my neck of the woods.

WigWam

John2 wrote:

Funding for science research comes from funding bodies like the Science Foundation of Ireland, Wellcome, the Health Research Board and so on. I've yet to encounter any significant private funding, there might be small bits of money coming in but for the most part the researcher comes up with a novel idea, applies to various boards for funding, does research and gets the results.

And the fact that we have some of the leading lights in science working in the college speaks volumes. For example Luke O'Neill is a very well respected researcher in immunology (he's had papers in Nature and has written articles for Scientific American). In other news the Institute of Neuroscience has several different departments and faculties working together in the one building to unlock the brain. It's amazing to see all these different disciplines sharing ideas and perspectives. This is exactly what you say TCD should be doing and it's doing it. Maybe not everywhere but it is in my neck of the woods.

Yes, I agree. The funding from SFI and others has boosted research tremendously particularly in physics, chemisty, engineering, health sciences and life sciences.
The quality of research output (Nature etc.) has improved dramatically over recent years and has contributed to Trinity's reputation as a high ranking university.
But it's all relative to other universities. I would hope Trinity could be like Oxford, Cambridge, Ivy league universities, but unfortunately I can't see it happening. We haven't the money nor the calibre (indeed the will) to attract top academics who will produce nobel prizes. This university is government funded which means we must follow their technology-driven economic strategy - this is where the windfall is coming from. I don't beleive they (FF government) are committed to academic excellence - but committed to supplying companies with knowledge via research and innovation leading to commercialisation. Is this what a university is about? I don't believe the science/technology money tree will last in the long term.
I sometimes feel that Trinity is like one of those cowboy film sets - a facade of great looking buildings, behind which are 'perfect life' students in cramped accomodation and offices full of fat 10-4 job administrators who couldn't care less about Trinity but for their pay check.

Nietzschean

WigWam wrote:

This university is government funded which means we must follow their technology-driven economic strategy - this is where the windfall is coming from. I don't beleive they (FF government) are committed to academic excellence - but committed to supplying companies with knowledge via research and innovation leading to commercialisation.

Like to quote some figures to support your assertions of a preference not to support non-commercial research?

ApeXaviour

This thread has been split from the "Buying an MA" thread on request since it was locked. Please don't let that happen to this thread.

John

This university is government funded which means we must follow their technology-driven economic strategy - this is where the windfall is coming from. I don't beleive they (FF government) are committed to academic excellence - but committed to supplying companies with knowledge via research and innovation leading to commercialisation. Is this what a university is about? I don't believe the science/technology money tree will last in the long term.

In fairness though where else is the money going to come from other than science and technology? There's not much money in philosophy or whatnot. Although all these fancy pants BESS students should be able to figure something out for us.

I agree with you about the government (and the powers that be in TCD) being more interested in attracting investment oppertunities rather than nurturing an environment of learning. A balance between the two needs to be found as without the funding no one can nurture anything.

Crash

John2 wrote:

Funding for science research comes from funding bodies like the Science Foundation of Ireland, Wellcome, the Health Research Board and so on. I've yet to encounter any significant private funding, there might be small bits of money coming in but for the most part the researcher comes up with a novel idea, applies to various boards for funding, does research and gets the results.

And the fact that we have some of the leading lights in science working in the college speaks volumes. For example Luke O'Neill is a very well respected researcher in immunology (he's had papers in Nature and has written articles for Scientific American). In other news the Institute of Neuroscience has several different departments and faculties working together in the one building to unlock the brain. It's amazing to see all these different disciplines sharing ideas and perspectives. This is exactly what you say TCD should be doing and it's doing it. Maybe not everywhere but it is in my neck of the woods.

on your neuroscience point - its very interesting to see how the lloyd building has changed the ways of interaction between a number of departments - seeing as most of the CS research groups (actually the main one where you might see private company funding) are now all in the same building, along the same lines as NeuroScience - i think its fantastic to see - hopefully should allow a lot more cross group collaboration, which means if i decide to do a postgrad in trinity the information and the people you can get access to will be a lot larger straight off the bat.

John

crash_000 wrote:

on your neuroscience point - its very interesting to see how the lloyd building has changed the ways of interaction between a number of departments - seeing as most of the CS research groups (actually the main one where you might see private company funding) are now all in the same building, along the same lines as NeuroScience - i think its fantastic to see - hopefully should allow a lot more cross group collaboration, which means if i decide to do a postgrad in trinity the information and the people you can get access to will be a lot larger straight off the bat.

I think there's a few of those CS people working with the NS and physics folk on fMRI software. Also we had a seminar by a guy from England who's apparently very big in AI and analysis of complex waveforms (specifically the non-regular bits such as a stock market crash or an epileptic fit) that was absolutely mind boggling but very interesting. I think he's coming to the Lloyd permanently and will probably link CS and NS even further. It's such a positive atmosphere in the building, you really feel like everyone's getting somewhere research-wise. Even getting the lift you end up batting ideas on the most random topics.

cuckoo

Abba had it right, it's 'money, money, money...'

I don't think TCD can be compared with other institutions such as Oxbridge and Harvard as they're rolling in it and trinity...well, isn't. Remember the email that the Provost sent around a year or so ago looking for cost saving suggestions? Possible the whole 'tcd is broke' vibe was a softening up of some of the departments pre restructuring, but in the world wide paddling pool of universities TCD is broke.

Harvard have an endowment fund worth 25 billion dollars, Yale School of Music has decided to stop charging tuition fees after receiving a 100 million dollar donation and in 2002 Oxford and Cambridge were rattling around pocket change worth about £2,000 million each.

(http://www.suttontrust.com/reports/endowments_report.pdf)

A cursory google couldn't find any mention of TCD having money stashed away.

So, the other institutions are able to attract good students with generous scholarships and financial support, while Trinity gives you some book tokens if you do well in your Leaving Cert.

My 2c is that it's a cultural thing, we don't have a tradition (yet) of graduates routinely donating large amounts of money to the alma mater - that combined with an expectation that the government will pay has left us with broke colleges. It's not Trinity's fault, it's the country's fault.

Crash

Come on the Trinity fund - pay our way... :P

WigWam

crash_000 wrote:

Come on the Trinity fund - pay our way... :P

The Trinity fund is doing a lot better. The Trinity trust is encouraging philantropy as best they can and last year they received €40m in private donations. Of course this is still a very small percentage compared to government funding, but it's improving all the time.
More has to be done than having 'TCD affinity' credit cards. Prof. McDowell was talking about giving TCD undergraduate students their e-mail address for life which would be a really great idea as it encourages graduates to stay in touch throughout their lives and it wouldn't cost that much (just a few servers).
The big problem is, as was said above, is that there's not a culture of 'giving back' which, I think, needs to be addressed. Annual dinners for all the classes in the dining hall/university club or good old-boy networks or better sporting events (DUFC are doing an excellent job these days) would be great ways to improve things.