How should this be played?

azzeretti

Double chance last night and I am the BB, blinds 75/150. 7 handed, I think. I have about 2300 chips at the start of the hand. Its folded around to the button who makes it 500 to go (he only has about 900 left after this raise). The SB thinks for a little while and just calls (he has about 2750 chips). I look down at KK. The button has been talking a little through the game and I reckon he has a fairly good grasp on things, the SB has been a little loose and made one of two loose calls. I sort of had the button on little, trying to steal. And I thought maybe the SB could have anything from a weak ace to QQ.

Before I say how I played it, and what happened, does anyone have an opinion on how I should play it?

Lafortezza

Push? The button will call unless he's a moron, and the SB will hopefully call too.

NickyOD

Call. Check to the button on the flop who will go all in. Then jam if there's no ace (assuming SB calls the button's all-in)

azzeretti

Good. Thats what I did. Button folded. SB calls with AhTh (pretty weak, I think)

Flop 235
Turn K

Guess what the river was?

The Troll

Personally, i'd put the guy on the button all-in. For him not to push is a crazy move as it stands, as he's left himself with only 6xBB which is just awful play IMHO.

The Troll

azzeretti wrote:

Good. Thats what I did. Button folded. SB calls with AhTh

Flop 235
Turn K

Guess what the river was?

And what did the button have? He couldnt possibly have folded.

I'm guessing the turn was a 4.

EDIT: just reread your post whoops. What a moron to fold.

azzeretti

The button never showed, just folded. When the 4 came on fifth street I was too sick to ask. Unreal:eek:

NickyOD

azzeretti wrote:

The button never showed, just folded. When the 4 came on fifth street I was too sick to ask. Unreal:eek:

If the SB believe's both his Ace and Ten are live his move isn't so bad. You were just unfortunate.

EDIT. Hang on a minute. What was te action on the flop?

azzeretti

NickyOD wrote:

If the SB believe's both his Ace and Ten are live his move isn't so bad. You were just unfortunate.

Umm, I pushed to get rid of the SB not the button!! I was very surprised the button laid and the SB called. I agree, that if he believed his hand is good it isn't so bad. I just think that his hand was not that good - not terrible - but just not great.
Anyway, maybe I'm just bitter:(

azzeretti

EDIT. Hang on a minute. What was te action on the flop?

None, we were all-in?

padser

NickyOD wrote:

If the SB believe's both his Ace and Ten are live his move isn't so bad. You were just unfortunate.

With a raise of 3 time BB, a call of it, and then a re raise all in by someone with almost 20BB it would be one hell of a call to think both your A and 10 were live?

NickyOD

azzeretti wrote:

None, we were all-in?

Ah. So when you said "Good. That's what I did" you were respoonding to Lafortezza.

Why not smooth call preflop?

padser

azzeretti wrote:

. I agree, that if he believed his hand is good it isn't so bad. (

surely its not a question of whether he believed his hand was good or not.
a) in hindsight it was a bad call as only the A was live.
b) with the available info i dont think it was a reasaonable read to think that even with the extra 500 in the pot the implied odds were enough to make a call.

Surely as i already said he has to think you have one of 3 things.
1)small pocket pair (less then 10)
2)large pocket pair (more then 10)
3)Ax which really could only be AK given the large raise and call
2) and 3) have him far too dominated to make a call and 1) would seem a very loose play given the raise and call before him(especially given that the all in came from someone with plenty of chips and therefore in no immediate danger.

azzeretti

yeah, i think it was an pretty bad call. What I was trying to say was that if someone thinks their hand is good then it isn't really thier fault for calling? The fact the a person may not realise it is a bad call/weak hand doesn't change that he/she thinks it a good one!

padser

azzeretti wrote:

yeah, i think it was an pretty bad call. What I was trying to say was that if someone thinks their hand is good then it isn't really thier fault for calling? The fact the a person may not realise it is a bad call/weak hand doesn't change that he/she thinks it a good one!

So if I though bottom set was a great hand with the board reading
Ad Kd Jd 10d 9c and called someones all in as I had pocket 9's this wouldnt be a bad call because i thought i had a good hand?

Marq

azzeretti wrote:

Flop 235
Turn K
Guess what the river was?

ANOTHER KING!?

The Troll

Marq wrote:

ANOTHER KING!?

See above

Marq

No I definitely think it was another king.

azzeretti

NickyOD wrote:

Ah. So when you said "Good. That's what I did" you were respoonding to Lafortezza.

Yeah, you had responded "Push" aswell but had since editied your post.

Why not smooth call preflop?

Thats why I posted the thread. I was thinking the whole way home if I should of just called. But at the time I really thought I was isolating the button and that the SB would fold.

azzeretti

padser wrote:

So if I though bottom set was a great hand with the board reading
Ad Kd Jd 10d 9c and called someones all in as I had pocket 9's this wouldnt be a bad call because i thought i had a good hand?

Yes. the fact that you are, in this scenario, a bad player, does not change your preception - obviously - otherwise you would have laid.

NickyOD

azzeretti wrote:

Yeah, you had responded "Push" aswell but had since editied your post.
Thats why I posted the thread. I was thinking the whole way home if I should of just called. But at the time I really thought I was isolating the button and that the SB would fold.

If the button had more chips I'm defintely reraise with KK. But since it's likely you can get him all in on the flop you can trap the SB when he thinks he's getting value. The end result though would probably have been the same.

The Troll

Marq wrote:

No I definitely think it was another king.

I think it was actually two kings. Then the director was called to ask why there were 5 kings in the deck. The extra king was taken out and everyone at the table called bum deal. The dealer then had to put the BB into the next pot.