Will Commons die out?

WigWam

Commons is not exactly an efficient use of government resources now. Perhaps some financial administrator will clamp down on the practice and abolish the whole lot of it. I think this would be a terrible tradition to lose.

The standard of food at Commons is pretty bad though. The food is pretty much an upgraded version of the scuttery's offerings but with garnishing and those Queen Elizabeth I plates. Sure the scholars don't even wear their gowns anymore (nor do about half the Fellows). And what's the point in standing to a Protestant prayer before meat when, (in all plausibility) the vast majority of those present would be of no religion, Catholic or of other minority faiths?

Commons really needs to reinvent itself. Commons is part of Trinity and is a great tradition. If this is the case, those traditions ought to be strengthened and observed: I say full academic dress, proper fine dining and an end to deterioration! I'd say the financial controllers would have something to say, but then again they're the ones in power these days, not the Fellows.

europerson

Whatever the food is like, and whatever the Fellows wear, Commons is part of the tradition and history of our college. I agree with WigWam, in that I believe the Fellows (and the Scholars) ought to wear their robes. That would make for a wonderfully colourful spectacle, at least as far as the Fellows are concerned. The standard of fare needs to be improved, probably to somewhere between Dining Hall or Buttery standards and 1592 standards.

On the subject of the prayer, it's not Protestant in nature at all. Before the meal, it's:

"Oculi Omnium in te sperant Domine. Tu das iis escam eorum in tempore opportuno. Aperis tu manum tuam, et imples omne animal benedictione tua. Miserere nostri te quaesumus Domine, tuisque donis quae de tua benignitate sumus percepturi, benedicito per Christum Dominum nostrum."

After the meal, it's:

"Tibi laus, tibi honor, tibi Gloria, O beata et gloriosa Trinitas. Sit nomen Domini benedictum et nunc et in perpetuum. Laudamus te, benignissime Pater, pro serenissimis, regina Elizabetha hujus Collegii conditrice, Jacobo ejusdem munificentissimo auctore, Carolo conservatore, caeterisque benefactoribus nostris, rogantes te, ut his tuis donis recte et ad tuam gloriam utentes in hoc saeculo, te una cnm fidelibus in futuro feliciter perfruamur, per Christum Dominum nostrum."

ApeXaviour

Doubt it will die out. They'd make the college private before they'd get rid of commons IMHO.

europerson wrote:

On the subject of the prayer, it's not Protestant in nature at all. Before the meal, it's:

"Oculi Omnium in te sperant Domine. Tu das iis escam eorum in tempore opportuno. Aperis tu manum tuam, et imples omne animal benedictione tua. Miserere nostri te quaesumus Domine, tuisque donis quae de tua benignitate sumus percepturi, benedicito per Christum Dominum nostrum."

After the meal, it's:

"Tibi laus, tibi honor, tibi Gloria, O beata et gloriosa Trinitas. Sit nomen Domini benedictum et nunc et in perpetuum. Laudamus te, benignissime Pater, pro serenissimis, regina Elizabetha hujus Collegii conditrice, Jacobo ejusdem munificentissimo auctore, Carolo conservatore, caeterisque benefactoribus nostris, rogantes te, ut his tuis donis recte et ad tuam gloriam utentes in hoc saeculo, te una cnm fidelibus in futuro feliciter perfruamur, per Christum Dominum nostrum."

You realise that the vast vast majority of do not speak latin, and as such cannot discern or confirm your implication that it's not "protestant in nature"?

Edwardius

On the subject of the prayer, it's not Protestant in nature at all. Before the meal, it's:

"Oculi Omnium in te sperant Domine. Tu das iis escam eorum in tempore opportuno. Aperis tu manum tuam, et imples omne animal benedictione tua. Miserere nostri te quaesumus Domine, tuisque donis quae de tua benignitate sumus percepturi, benedicito per Christum Dominum nostrum."

After the meal, it's:

"Tibi laus, tibi honor, tibi Gloria, O beata et gloriosa Trinitas. Sit nomen Domini benedictum et nunc et in perpetuum. Laudamus te, benignissime Pater, pro serenissimis, regina Elizabetha hujus Collegii conditrice, Jacobo ejusdem munificentissimo auctore, Carolo conservatore, caeterisque benefactoribus nostris, rogantes te, ut his tuis donis recte et ad tuam gloriam utentes in hoc saeculo, te una cnm fidelibus in futuro feliciter perfruamur, per Christum Dominum nostrum."

What be this daemon talk? I'll get the holy water and me baseball bat!

punka

The Fellows are required to wear gowns to Commons. Scholars may, but nobody does except the Waiter (whoever is saying Grace).

oh, and here's the translation of the grace:

The eyes of all hope in you, Lord. You give to them food at the appropriate time. You open your hand, and you fill every creature with your blessing. Pity us, we beg you, Lord, and bless the gifts which we are about to receive from your bounty through Christ our Lord. Amen.


To you praise, to you honour, to you glory, O blessed and glorious Trinity. May the name of the Lord be blessed both now and forever. We praise you, most bountiful Father, for the most serene ones, queen Elizabeth the founder of this College, James, its most generous builder, Charles its preserver, and our other benefactors, asking you, as we make use of these your gifts rightly and for your glory at this time, that we might exalt in you together with the faithful happily in the future, through Christ our lord. Amen.


I sacrificed eloquence for faithfulness to the original, so it's a bit clunky. Sorry about that.

Diapason

Hi folks,

I'm new to boards.ie and was just having a look around when I came across this. You know, I never actually knew what these words meant, despite the fact that I heard them often enough. Thanks for the translation!

Si

Thirdfox

I think that this tradition is something worth keeping (as long as it doesn't become a farce...)

Scarinae

Who says the prayer in Commons?

bbrazil

Fishie wrote:

Who says the prayer in Commons?

The graces before and after meat are said by a Waiter, who is one of 10 or so scholars. They get paid E65 for saying it - I forget if thats per year or per term.

dearheart

I think Commons should be kept going, but appreciated for what it is. That is, ditch the prayer, and focus on the fact that it's a demonstration of & a reward for academic excellence. I don't think the gowns matter either way; that should be left up to choice. Academia [everywhere] has flourished because of secularization and the freedom it gives academics to rationally explore new possibilities.

cuckoo

Does it count as a prayer if nobody in the room (maybe including the person saying it) understands it? Would it make that much difference to secularise the Commons Experience by replacing it with my shopping list translated into latin if nobody notices the difference?

Scarinae

bbrazil wrote:

The graces before and after meat are said by a Waiter, who is one of 10 or so scholars. They get paid E65 for saying it - I forget if thats per year or per term.

Would they be people who study Latin/Classics or something, or are they just random volunteers? Would anyone notice if they pronounced words wrong, left out bits or just forgot chunks?

Thirdfox

We should say Fishie's signature... see if anyone notices a difference...

bbrazil

Thirdfox wrote:

We should say Fishie's signature... see if anyone notices a difference...

The Fellows probably would.

Thirdfox

bbrazil wrote:

The Fellows probably would.

...yeah those who know Latin...

europerson

I'm sure both Fellows and Scholars would notice the change. They've surely become quite accustomed to listening to the graces.

It's usually scholars of Classics or related subjects, who become Waiters.

punka

europerson wrote:

It's usually scholars of Classics or related subjects, who become Waiters.

No it's not. There's only one waiter who's a Classics scholar at the moment. Anyone can say it, and in fact I think most of the waiters are scientists.

Thirdfox

No lawyers then?

punka

Not sure. TBH I haven't been to commons much this year, so I don't know who the new waiters are.

Thirdfox

What is the food like in there? And I'm assuming people don't eat off a silver platter?

And how's the entrance exhibition dinner? I'm going tonight...

punka

The food's OK, the meat's not great but otherwise I think it's alright - about as good as anything I could manage to cook anyway. No there are no silver platters, but there are nice TCD plates with the college crest on them.

Didn't know there was a dinner for entrance exhibitors - I thought it was just a drinks reception..

Nietzschean

unless they have changed it..it is just drinks...

europerson

Do the Waiters have difficulty in reciting the graces memeriter?

bbrazil

europerson wrote:

Do the Waiters have difficulty in reciting the graces memeriter?

Sometimes, especially during the start of the year.

Over the summer tends to be more entertaining as those staying on campus have to say it.

Thirdfox

Serenity wrote:

unless they have changed it..it is just drinks...

nope they haven't, I feel cheated but then again I am so confused most of the time.

TCD plates? has anyone ever tried to walk out with one of them??? (not that I would suggest anyone of such high calibre and distinction would )

europerson

Thirdfox wrote:

TCD plates? has anyone ever tried to walk out with one of them??? (not that I would suggest anyone of such high calibre and distinction would )

Sometimes the odd portion of sausage beans and chips at lunch-time in the Dining Hall ends up on the College plates. I remember receiving my lunch on one of them during my Freshers' Week (the first time I ate in the Dining Hall), and I was distinctly amazed by the plates. Unfortunately, after several hundred subsequent visits, I have yet to be served my food on such wonderful plates for a second time. Such a shame.

Thirdfox

all the more incentive to bring the plate home with you then...

I'm coming across like a thief aren't I? ...then again I am studying law...

Ron DMC

Thirdfox wrote:

all the more incentive to bring the plate home with you then...

I'm coming across like a thief aren't I? ...then again I am studying law...

You can't be a lawyer if you have a conviction.

Thirdfox

And you only get a conviction if you get caught! I had kinda meant that as lawyers we'd be leeching off society... contributing nothing while taking your money