Foxrock-Kill Lane QBC

Zaph0d

There are plans for a QBC and cycle lane between Dun Laoghaire and Foxrock Church on the N11.

However, the road is single lane for nearly the entire distance and extremely narrow in Monkstown Farm. Does anyone know how it is expected that the extra lanes will be squeezed in? Is it a 1-way or 2-way QBC?

Will it skip Monkstown Farm and reroute up Kill Avenue?

Draupnir

That seems completely unnecessary to me, granted I've never used the route at peak times but at off peak times you barely see another car on that stretch of road.

MrPudding

It can get very bad between Baker's corner and Kill of the Grange. For most of the day that section is very bad. Peak times can be a nightmare. In fact it can be quite nasty from Kill of the Grange up to the Church as well. Not sure about the rest of it as I would not typically see it at peak times.

MrP

John R

Bakers Corner to Foxrock Church can be bad at certain times, both peak and off-peak. Usually not the whole section at one time.

The Right turn at Bakers corner outbound from Abbey Road to Kill Lane can be very slow also, a right turn only for buses and a bus-activated filter light would solve this.

Monkstown Farm isn't congested with traffic but it is very narrow with far too many parked cars, the direct route via Kill Avenue would save about 5 minutes but would leave a large area without any bus service.

Mounttown Lower is often congested now throughout the day.

The stupidly short traffic light sequence from York Road to Crofton road often means it takes 5 minutes to go through that one junction, this effects the 7/7A routes from the city also.

None of the individual delays are terribly bad on their own but they add up, that section of the 46a route is quite slow.

I would like to see all day use of the Stillorgan Bypass as well, it is a very short walk to the shopping centre from the by-pass. If a new stop was built right over the pedestrian walkway the inconvenience to Stillorgan people would be minimal and it would shave another 5 minutes off the overall journey time.

robfitz

It's probably not going to be much of a QBC, they only work well when they have dedicated and continuous road space. Really it's just going to piss off motorists and increase the demand for them to be able to use buslanes.

The biggest problem I have is that any cycletrack will have been designed without any input from actual cyclists even though they construct more cycletrack then buslane.

To see an example have a look at some photo's of plans for the proposed Sandyford Road QBC at the bottom of this page, 780 meters of buslane and 3130 meters of cycletrack.

John R

robfitz wrote:

It's probably not going to be much of a QBC, they only work well when they have dedicated and continuous road space. Really it's just going to piss off motorists and increase the demand for them to be able to use buslanes.

The only QBC in Dublin is Leeson Street to Loughlinstown, all the other attempts are half-arsed at best and downright dangerous at worst.

Adding in a small amount of bus priority at the pinch points between DunLaoghaire and Foxrock would have a big effect though.

robfitz wrote:

The biggest problem I have is that any cycletrack will have been designed without any input from actual cyclists even though they construct more cycletrack then buslane.

I can assure you that they don't consult bus drivers about bus lanes either, I know of one (now former) bus driver who wrote extremely detailed and well written responses to some of the previous QBC projects and never so much as recieved a reply.

I am convinced that many of the people designing them aren't even aware of the dimensions of a bus. The cycle lanes are a similar disgrace, anyone with a passing knowledge of cycling can see how un-useable and dangerous most of them are.

Zaph0d

robfitz wrote:

The biggest problem I have is that any cycletrack will have been designed without any input from actual cyclists even though they construct more cycletrack then buslane.

Rob, are you not on a transport committe of DLRCC? How can that not give you an input into cycle lane design? Also was there no public consultation period before this QBC/bike lane was designed?

robfitz

Zaph0d wrote:

Rob, are you not on a transport committe of DLRCC?

Yes I am.

Zaph0d wrote:

How can that not give you an input into cycle lane design?

You would think, but DLRCC don't get to design many cycle tracks. As far as I can tell the QBN Office and NRA seem to be doing the most damage.

Zaph0d wrote:

Also was there no public consultation period before this QBC/bike lane was designed?

Not that I'm aware of.

The drawings were sent to DLRCC for comment, one of the engineers got on to someone from the cycling campaign, he posted to the mailing list. I then got on to the engineer and picked up the drawings, reviewed the drawing and the road for a few weeks then emailed a list of comments, I then meet with the engineer about a week later.

robfitz

John R wrote:

Adding in a small amount of bus priority at the pinch points between DunLaoghaire and Foxrock would have a big effect though.

I agree, but would you call it a 'Quality Bus Corridor'?

John R

robfitz wrote:

I agree, but would you call it a 'Quality Bus Corridor'?

No.

Like I said Leeson St. to Loughlinstown is the only route in Dublin that could in any way be considered a QBC.

Zaph0d

robfitz wrote:

It's probably not going to be much of a QBC, they only work well when they have dedicated and continuous road space. Really it's just going to piss off motorists and increase the demand for them to be able to use buslanes.

I went into Dun Laoghaire town hall yesterday and got the plans from the transport office. It's crazy that a €5 million public project isn't on the web.

The bus lane is mostly in the Dun Laoghaire-Foxrock direction. It's one of those lanes that keeps starting and stopping where the road gets too narrow or at junctions. There's an on-street bike lane on the outbound side of the road and a raised bike lane with frequent breaks on the inbound side. Some trees to be felled and some bus stops recessed.

I can't see from the plans if the raised bike lane wil be built rollercoaster style, rising and dipping with each driveway. Junctions with side streets will all be raised to footpath level as used on the South Circular Road.

Inbound buses will not use Monkstown farm before 9am. I think Monkstown Farm should be closed to through traffic altogether.

robfitz

Zaph0d wrote:

I went into Dun Laoghaire town hall yesterday and got the plans from the transport office.

Who designed the QBC and cycle track?

Zaph0d

I think it was JB Barry, Clondalkin

robfitz

Sorry to bring up an old thread but this is relevant. This is currently in public consultation.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Roads/Foxrock_DunLaoghaire_QBC/advert.htm

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council
Foxrock Church to Dún Laoghaire Dart Station QBC & Cycle Track Scheme

The preliminary design of the portion of the above scheme on Kill Lane and Kill Avenue has now been completed.

The proposed scheme provides for improved priority for buses, improved facilities for cyclists and pedestrians, and significant footpath and junction improvements which will include full mobility impaired and disabled facilities. The proposal also includes for traffic calming works on Oliver Plunkett Rd and Monkstown Farm and the provision of traffic signals at the Monkstown Farm/Monkstown Ave junction.

Plans illustrating the above scheme will be on display from Thursday 6th September to Thursday 4th October at:

County Hall, Marine Road Dún Laoghaire, and also at;
Deansgrange Library, Clonkeen Drive, Deansgrange

John R

robfitz wrote:

Sorry to bring up an old thread but this is relevant.

Good job in digging this one up. It just highlights how long it takes these so-called experts to plan a few bits of road paint and raised kerbs.

robfitz wrote:

This is currently in public consultation.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Roads/Foxrock_DunLaoghaire_QBC/advert.htm

Total and utter shíte.

It does virtually nothing to improve the bus service, a few pretend cycle lanes on wide roads where there is not a big problem, traffic lights at a junction that flows well enough without them and a nasty traffic calming scheme on the city's most frequent bus route that uses full-width ramps not bus friendly ones.

DLRCC, well done another shining triumph in the art of turd polishing.

It would take me 10 minutes with MSPaint to draw out more effective traffic/QBC plans for this area.

SickCert

John R wrote:

No.

Like I said Leeson St. to Loughlinstown is the only route in Dublin that could in any way be considered a QBC.

I would more Class Donnybrook church to Loughlinstown as the QBC as there is some much bad parking in Donnybrook village at the moment its unreal and requires a lane change.

AlekSmart

John R you are the MAN !
Your description of DLRCC`s talentless "QBC" design Crew is spot-on.

Did any of these so called professionals bother their well padded arses to take a wander along Monkstown Farm and perhaps wonder to themselves if sending fleets of hi capacity tri-axle double decks along this thoroughfare was actually feasibile let alone desirable.

What the feck Bus Atha Cliath are doing co-operating with any of this damn nonsense is beyond me....
The routing of the 75 at least allows for some semblance of safety to be maintained and also gives the much needed space for unforseen manouvering when required.

What a load of imbicility to be foisted on the public by any so called administrative body...but I suppose coming from the Local Authority that gave us Georges St we should be greatful......

Bring back Kingstown I say..Jesus C but Holyhead now puts Dun Laoighre in the shade....!!!!

robfitz

Just to confirm that the poor design work isn't just down to DLRCC you've also got lump a fair amount on the QBN Project Office.