Advise me, pretty please

Parsley

Ok, my birthday is coming up, and seeing as it's pretty close to Christmas, I was thinking about getting myself a nice amp. At the moment I have my beginner's set. I'm thinking that if I'm gonna be in a band I'll need something more substantial.

The funds: I have €200 of my own, and parents will give around €200, maybe more.
The ideas: This was my first idea, recommended by the guy from Cork. But now I've started learning guitar, and I need a good/cheap 'lectric to play through the new amp.
My friend has this, but he doesn't use it anymore and has offered to sell it to me, for about €150. So I thought I'd look at [url=http://www.thomann.de/thoiw6_behringer_bx1200_ultrabass_prodinfo.html?sn=50886e21f36f34d56d732d81ff309e7b#fpix?sn=50886e21f36f34d56d732d81ff309e7b
]this[/url], so i'd be able to get both.
The questions: Would the Behringer suffice, or is the Warwick really worth the extra €217? Would I notice any difference, seeing as I'm only playing a basic enough bass? Does anybody have any other recomendations?

Thanks for your time.

Seany

Have you any preference if it is new or second hand?

What about something like this if buying something new or perhaps try ebay for something like this

I'm sure there are others here who can advise you better. Id say, go into a few of the guitar shops in town (musicmaker, waltons, musicans inc) and try as many as you can. The might do a deal for you but sadly, it will probably cheaper to purchase online.

Cheers,
Seany

Rustar

I own the Behringer Ultrabass 1200, and while it is a sweet little amp (and rocks for the money), it wouldn't be loud enough for gigs. Unfortunately, 120watts seems to be right at that dividing line between 'practice amp' and 'monstrous'. My old Crate BX-160 was plenty loud, so I'm guessing that 160watts would be the least amount of wattage I'd take on stage. I'm also assuming that this would be a beginning/garage type band and that you wouldn't have the fineries like PA and soundman.
I think you're on the right track, though, if you want to gear up for live sound then work on your amp first. Get the biggest most powerful amp you can afford and it will see you through for quite some time while you work on upgrading your bass.
In that price range you probably want to check out the cheaper Ashdowns, SWR, and GK Backline for quality, and Behringer, Peavey, or Crate for wattage.

Edit: The 'my friend has This' link is bad, dunno what he wants to sell you.

fish-head

A behringer BX1200 isnt loud enough for gigs? You really think so?
120 watts is alot..

feylya

Not in bass terms though...

Rustar

Depends on the kind of music you're doing, too.....being in a folk band or traditionals band is a far cry from doing Kiss or Iron Maiden covers.
Leaning towards the harder stuff meself, my formula is add up all the guitar amp wattages and double it.
And the beauty of it is, you can still play quiet too!

The bass rig I'm working on buying for playing out right now is a Gallien-Krueger stack pushing 480watts.

Edit: Bass has a harder time cutting through and needs more wattage for a variety of reasons.
a.) When a club is full of people, they 'soak up sound'...and it seems they eat bass first, then vocals, allowing those posturing lead guitarists to shine on through.
b.) Guitar amps are made to produce a heavy bass component nowadays, so you're competing with them.
c.) Kick drums and big toms can actually cancel out your sound at the right frequencies.
d.) Being lower frequency, your sound waves hit the ear less often and need more air pressure to push them.

And that's my 2 coppers.

Parsley

A friend of mine has that blue Ashdown, and he has no real trouble competing with two 100w Marshall guitar amps. In his garage though. Lotsa good advice there, I'm gonna be playing metal, and I'll probably need all the power I can get for the money. The guitarist that I'm starting the band with recommended I put the guitar on hold for a while and just get the best amp I can.

And I fixed the link in the first post

Oh, and that 300w Ashdown on eBay - The guy says he's only shipping to UK. I could ask about Ireland though.

Doctor J

Do ask, a lot of UK based sellers will ship to Ireland with you covering the extra expense, of course.

If you can get that Ashdown for around that price then do it, that's a really, really good amp.

Parsley

Ok. I've decided that the 300w Ashdown is the way to go.
Problem: I'm 15. My mum is very skeptical about eBay. She would prefer if I bought from a high street store (which ain't gonna happen) and get gouged to ****. She says that if something goes wrong with the amp, I'll be fecked. I've told her that the brand are very reliable, and that if I get this amp, I'll not need another for a good few years at least. And I'll never see an amp that good for that price. How much would it be to buy it from a shop on the street?
And any ideas for convincing my ma that eBay is safe, i.e. I won't get stung? The seller seems fairly good.

Karl Hungus

Tell her if she wants to pay the difference, then you'll get it locally.

Doctor J

It's down to the seller, check their feedback. Send a message vie ebay to the seller, the reply will come to your email account. So then you have their email address and the IP address, they can be traced. Also, pay by paypal if possible, then your purchase will be protected.

Buying from abroad is, sadly, the only sane way to buy these days. When the shops cop on they might get my business again.

Parsley

I asked if he'd ship to Ireland using the "Ask this seller a question" function, no reply yet though.
Also: explain how Paypal works, please.

:edit: Ok, my ma is ok with the whole PayPal/eBay thing, so I'm gonna try and get the Ashdown, if yer man will ship.
Any tips for bidding? Should I be a total snake about it and nip in at the last second?
Also: thanks Karl, that little bit of argument worked very well

Parsley

Ok, the seller replied saying he'd try and get some prices before the auction ends, but he can't promise. Does this mean I can just bid, and if I win he'll ship but I'll have to sort out the shipping prices afterward?

Whoa, just noticed that one guy has bidded 5 times in a row for it. Looks like he's a friend of the seller pushing the price up. If it goes up much further, it'll be outta my reach.

Johnny Storm

Parsley wrote:

..
Any tips for bidding? Should I be a total snake about it and nip in at the last second?
...

AFAIK, yes. And the most important tip is decide what you are willing to pay first and dont be tempted to go beyond that. Another one will come along.

EDIT:

Parsley wrote:

..
just noticed that one guy has bidded 5 times in a row for it. Looks like he's a friend of the seller pushing the price up
...

That guy is probably not a friend of the seller, he is probably doing "automatic bidding" up to a preset maximum. This is from EBay:-
Quote - Bidding
eBay's bidding system operates as a proxy bid system. This means that you can submit a maximum bid amount and eBay's system will act as a proxy bidder in your absence, executing your bid for you and trying to keep the bid price as low as possible. This way you don't have to watch the auction every minute.

For example, if the current bid on an item is £5 and you are willing to pay up to £10, you would enter £10 as your maximum bid. Your bid would be shown on the item page as £5, but if another bidder places a bid for £6, then eBay will place a higher bid on your behalf. The bid would be just above the other member's bid. This would continue until either you win the auction at or below £10 or the bidding exceeds the $10 you were willing to pay. eBay will notify you via email if you are outbid and you can return to place another bid if you like. Your maximum bid is never disclosed to other bidders or to the seller. -end quote

Parsley

But he had the high bid, then kept bidding more. No-one else was out-bidding him.

Johnny Storm

Parsley wrote:

But he had the high bid, then kept bidding more. No-one else was out-bidding him.

I have reached the limit of my EBAy knowledge - sorry

Quattroste

Some was trying to outbid him but his maximum is higher so it keeps recording him as the highest bidder.

My advise is to wait until about 15 seconds from the end of the auction and then put in your highest bid plus 51 cent. If you win you win if not you gave it your best. They will come up again as mentioned above. Patience is needed if you want to bag a bargain.

Johnny Storm

Hard luck on that Ebay auction Parsley.

Parsley

Meh, I just found the exact same amp on Music123.com for cheaper! But it says it ain't voltage swappable for foreign use (American site). Does that mean I can't get it? If not, what about this?

Johnny Storm

Dont forget VAT and import duty if you buy from outside EEC - adds about 25%

Rustar

Don't know much about the voltage-swapping thing....you might want to spend a few coins and call them and let them know your situation (ask if there's a converter you can use, etc.).
That Backline is probably good quality and reliable, but I have this problem.....I'm leary of using tiny (10") speakers for my bass. They probably work just fine, but when I look at the 12" speaker in my Ultrabass 1200, it just looks......puny.
The GK stack I'm getting has a 2x10 cab and a 1x15. In my personal situation, I'd buy that combo with the idea of getting a 1x15 later (and taking advantage of the full 300w!).
For the same reason, I didn't go the 8x10 cab route, even though those cabs look freeking awesome (you can just hear ppl thinking, "that's GOTTA belong to the bass player!").

My old stack was the Crate BX-160 1x15 combo on top of a Crate 2x15 cab. It looked monstrous, but I'm looking for more wattage and tonal variety now.

Parsley

Johnny Storm wrote:

Dont forget VAT and import duty if you buy from outside EEC - adds about 25%

Cvnt! So it'll be more like €500? Ah well, bollocks. Anyone know any European sites (excluding Thomann.de) that would stock the Ashdown MAG 300 and GK backline 210? They're the ones I'm most interested in.

Beecher

Have you considered by a seperate head/cab? Can make life a lot easier in some respects, and can actually be cheaper!

Example

GK backline 210: Here 519,47 euro (540 with shipping)

Or:

GK Backline 250 Top Here 280 Euro

+

GK 2 x 10 Here 206 Euro

Which would be 486 euro altogether (506 with shipping) which is 34 euro cheaper

Or if thats still too much you could get the head now (For recording/live purposes I find that bass amps sound better D.I'd instead of mic'd and as this amp has an XLR D.I you could use that for gigs through the P.A) and you could always get a second hand cab (I believe Doc J has a 15" cab for sale nice and cheapy in the FS Section) for practicing

Parsley

I'm confused about the last 3 lines of your post, any chance you could be a bit clearer? Or could anyone suggest a full setup, like pre-amp, power-amp, cab that would be in my price range and suit my needs?

Johnny Storm

Parsley wrote:

Cvnt!...

Does your Mom know you talk like that?

Parsley wrote:

...Anyone know any European sites (excluding Thomann.de) ...

Many people who post on this site think Thomann are quite good.

Parsley

Yes, I really like Thomann, but they don't have any Ashdown stuff. But anyways that doesn't matter now. Could I just get a good amp head (or pre-amp + power-amp) and run it through the one Doctor J is selling? I'm not too troubled about getting perfect tone, just reasonable enough, but loud enough to keep me going for practise, jams and small gigs.

Thanks for all the help!

Johnny Storm wrote:

Does your Mom know you talk like that?

Yes. I shouted that very word at my brother just a few mins ago and she said nothing.

Beecher

Parsley wrote:

I'm confused about the last 3 lines of your post, any chance you could be a bit clearer?

No Probs. When playing bass at a gig your amp would either be miked up (with microphones put at the speakers) or done through a D.I (which means direct input, which in the GK's case would be through its XLR D.I, (XLR is the type of cable it uses)).

Now since you have a limited budget you can use the GK's D.I (or any other head with a D.I) to your advantage. If you were spend the majority of your budget on a head (a seperate preamp/poweramp combo will cost a bit more) you could get something that could produce a real nice bass tone straight into the mixing desk through the D.I. Volume is then sorted aswell as it levels will be mixed in appropriatly with the rest of the band. Then all you need is a cheap big cab so you can hear yourself at practice and on-stage (while the crowd just hears the tones from your head). You can then use the next few months if you wish to save up for a savage cab and end up with a much better rig then you can afford now.

Parsley

Beecher wrote:

You can then use the next few months if you wish to save up for a savage cab and end up with a much better rig then you can afford now.

Hmmm, your advice gives me lotsa ideas. The thing is, I have basically 0 steady income. All the money I'm using is a combo of Christmas/Birthday and JC results money. If I wait till my Birthday though, and get cash from relatives (:D) I could afford something more substantial.
So, if I take all my funds, minus €50 for the Doc's cab (the big cheap cab you suggested) and spend it all on the best head I can get, would that be a good way to go?

Beecher

Parsley wrote:

So, if I take all my funds, minus €50 for the Doc's cab (the big cheap cab you suggested) and spend it all on the best head I can get, would that be a good way to go?

Personally I definitly would try and put together the best amp possible even if it took some time. As a student who cant work full time its taken me ages to afford my ideal guitar amp rig (rack pre-amp,rack poweramp,rack multieffects and a 2 x 12 cab that will arrive on monday). I could have spent my initial 500 euro's a few months back on a combo rather than than a second hand pre-amp + poweramp and had instant gratification from a fully working amp there and then but I know I will have a setup that should be superior to any combo I could have gotten for that money. A good bass head with a D.I socket will sound great for gigs, and if your rehearsal space has a P.A you should be able to use your D.I there aswell. And finally as im presuming your turning 16 you could always get a part-time job in your local supervalu or whatnot and save up for a savage cab if you need it.

Parsley

Ok, that's good advice thanks. But I only actually have €200, the other €200 in my budget is promised for Birthday and Xmas from parents €100 each. But they want to buy me a present, they don't want to just give me money. Which means I have to buy something now, even if it's just a part of a big rig.

What are you suggesting I do with the money now? The bands I'm in now aren't that serious so my 20watt will do for a while. Should I buy my 'ultimate rig' piece by piece as I can afford it?

And I really need specific suggestions for equipment, I have no idea what's good or how to find bargains, cos I don't know how much stuff should be worth.

You guys are great.

Beecher

Parsley wrote:

What are you suggesting I do with the money now? The bands I'm in now aren't that serious so my 20watt will do for a while. Should I buy my 'ultimate rig' piece by piece as I can afford it?

If you can make do with your 20watt amp for the moment I'd definitly hold out till you can make the most of your money and get an amazing rig together. It'll be worth every penny!

Parsley wrote:

And I really need specific suggestions for equipment, I have no idea what's good or how to find bargains, cos I don't know how much stuff should be worth.

Ebay is really the best place to find stuff (My Mum used to freak about me using it when I was younger, but there are safegaurds if you use paypal. Since I got my own credit card only 2 items out of 50 ive bought off ebay werent as described and ive got my money back from each, and ive made some serious serious savings in the meantime). Try an keep an eye out for markbass amps aswell as the other names like GK and Ashdown , I played a Little Mark II and it was the best bass head ive ever played through, seen a few go cheap on ebay (around 300 ish). If you think you've found a deal post up the details here, the boys here are quite knowledgeable and will point you in the right direction.

Parsley wrote:

You guys are great.

:v: