Luas to Bray!!!

HelterSkelter

Why?!!! The DART already goes there. Why don't they build the LUAS to Ballymun as originally planned?

MarkoP11

Seen the detailed plans it all about the money, the private money

Metro is going to Ballymun dont be so annoyed

Zebra3

Well, the old Harcourt Street line actually went to Bray.

By linking the Sandyford Luas line with Bray, it connects the Luas line with both DART and InterCity services. Not a bad idea it would seem.

Winters

Hell of a long journey time to the city centre by tram from Bray though.

I count 30 stops to O'Connell Street on yesterdays half arse diagram.

Töpher

Winters wrote:

Hell of a long journey time to the city centre by tram from Bray though.

It's be too painful to stand tbfh!

The Troll

What a ridiculous question. Could you imagine the number of crossings that would be needed from Bray. plus the DART and bus links are enough from Bray.

Zebra3

I'm not too familiar with the area, but if you live in Bray and wanna go to the city centre, take the DART.

But what if you want to go to Dundrum?

And what if you want to go from Dundrum to Rosslare by public transport?

Does it therefore not have it's merit?

MarkoP11

Zebra3 wrote:

Well, the old Harcourt Street line actually went to Bray.

But they ain't using it

morlan

I'm all for a LUAS to Bray but the current alignment to Cherrywood will not allow an upgrade to Metro in the future.

spacetweek

HelterSkelter wrote:

Why?!!! The DART already goes there. Why don't they build the LUAS to Ballymun as originally planned?

The original plan was for the Metro to go via Finglas and the Luas by Ballyer. The Metro is now going via Ballymun, but nothing is being provided for Finglas. Other areas of the city which will remain blackspots even after the 10 year Plan will be the Northern Fringe (N32) and south central e.g. Rathfarnham.

BrianD

morlan wrote:

I'm all for a LUAS to Bray but the current alignment to Cherrywood will not allow an upgrade to Metro in the future.

Important fact: Green Line = No possibility of upgrading. It doesn't even meet Metrobest's strict criteria for a metroline. The ability to upgrade is purely notional. The green line would need to be closed for at least a year probably more to build it.

The LUAS to Bray is a ridiculous idea. The line will be too long to be functional and practical. However, a separate tram line that would feed into Bray could be a runner. People then jump on the DART and on into town.

The problem is that either way its all doomed. The root of the problem is bad planning. Developers want the tram line because they can point to it and say 'Look public transport ... now we want to build some low quality shoeboxes in that green area'.

MarkoP11

Ranaleagh to Sandyford can support some kind of metro like service, there is one level crossing that can be taken out (the one the RPA put in) we are talking about 8-12 DART style trains per hour giving up to 16,000 in each direction roughly tripple the luas system can take

Sandyford to Cherrywood to Bray is a no go its got nasty on street sections, poor segregation. There just isn't capacity for Luas extension the question is will the person in charge of the public inquiry have the neck to reject it?

strassenwolf

Zebra3 wrote:

Well, the old Harcourt Street line actually went to Bray.

You're right. AFAIK it was the first Dublin-Bray line. I've been told that south of Bray the mileposts on the line are measured from Harcourt Street. At least they used to be. Not sure if these things ever get changed. Pity they took it all up anyways.

MarkoP11

AFAIK both lines opened same day 10 July 1854, its complex legal mess

Harcourt St route is more direct and much straighter it would be way faster than the coastal route, but only if it was built a heavy rail DART/Metro setup, many in Bray would swap to the inland route freeing up DART capacity

TrickyRicky

The Troll quote: "What a ridiculous question. Could you imagine the number of crossings that would be needed from Bray. plus the DART and bus links are enough from Bray"

Can you believe this guy??

1. Only 3 bus routes link Bray to city centre (12 miles)
45,84,145 of these the 84 is hourly. The other buses that serve Bray are 45a to Dun Laoghaire, 185 to Enniskerry, and 184 to Greystones. For a town of 30,000 people this is no way near enough buses. The 145 was a great innovation, straight down the dualler means you can get to UCD in 30-40 mins, but it needs the frequency of the 46A

2. The DART serves Bray well, but it's only one station, too far for a lot of people in certain parts of Bray to walk. there is enough demand for another station at Woodbrook (between Bray & Shankill) and possibly at the far end of Bray seafront as well

3. The Luas green line follows the alignment of the old Harcourt-Bray rail line, any extension of the line should logically follow its former course, consdering the alignment is still there, without many obstacles.

MarkoP11

TrickyRicky wrote:

3. The Luas green line follows the alignment of the old Harcourt-Bray rail line, any extension of the line should logically follow its former course, consdering the alignment is still there, without many obstacles.

Thats the logic but the luas plans show it leaving the alignment as it crosses cherrywood and never returns to it.

The former alignment has issues but any route will have to cross the M11 it will be tricky no matter what

There is a very valid point to capture the inland side of Bray but that needs to be balanced with the need integrate with the existing rail network

Zaph0d

How could the route for the Luas extension be changed now, given that the council have been collecting Luas tax from the developers along the proposed route for some time? They'd have to give the money back and worse still, the residents of the new apartments wouldn't be too happy when they found they couldn't get to work because the Luas had been rerouted through some rich peoples gardens in Foxrock

Ballyogan was never a great place but it's always been made much worse by its total isolation from the city and public transport. Everyones house there will gain by at least 50K (and probably has already).

MarkoP11

Route was never set in stone only the outcome of the public inquiry can do that

The ads for new apartments generally stated "proposed luas extension"

I'm not sure any money has changed hands and if it has it only has been in the last few months since the RPA for some strange reason held off sending the works order in until they had got the contracts to get there pound of flesh out the developers

Thomond Pk

Talking about long timeframes whats going on with the P11 message board?

TrickyRicky

anyone know where i can get a map showing expected route/stops for the luas from cherrywood to Bray?

MarkoP11

I'm afraid you might need brown envelopes for that

One thing which is clear is no stop in Shankill since the line isn't taking the Harcourt Street route

TrickyRicky

lol, know where i can get these aforementioned brown envelopes??

Slippin Jimmy

It would be a great idea to bring the luas out to Bray for the following reasons.
1. If you live in Sandyford, you have to get the Luas or a Bus to town to get a Dart to Bray. It would be much handier to have a direct route going to Bray.
2. It would ease congestion on Darts, leaving more room for passengers at other stations.
3. It would increase property values dramatically if it past through the area. More people could use the luas, giving them a better choice for transport.
4.It would bring more business to the new Dundrum Town Center, more people from Bray can come out and spend money and have a fun they out, without the hassle of going to town.

They are just some of the reasons, I have. But of course everything will not run smoothly. Someone in an earlier post says that the luas green line would have to be closed. Why? This is not the case, why would they have to shut it down, there is no reason whatsoever that I can think of. I heard before that they were planning on running the luas underground to the airport, it would be a good idea to run it underground, if possible, between Sandyford and Bray. If the line was going to be extended luas would have to get a lot more trams. I heard recently that the luas is doing better than expected in the first year, if this continues they should invest the money into extending the current lines and also upkeeping them. They would need to hire more drivers, so that is obviously a good thing. Also they woud need to hire a lot more ticket checkers because it is rare enough that you get your ticket checked, I have been on trams plenty of times always with a ticket and they are never checked. So it would be a good idea to extend the lie to Bray.

Victor

DonnybrookGhost wrote:

it would be a good idea to run it underground, if possible, between Sandyford and Bray.

Pray tell why? :rolleyes:

Slippin Jimmy

Victor wrote:

Pray tell why? :rolleyes:

Victor, I take it you mean to explain, so here goes:

It would be a good idea in a sense to have the trams run undergorund to and from Bray because it would cut out all the level crossings and save much more time on journeys to and from Bray. But, I was thinking today about this, it might not be a good idea because all citys that have an underground like New York and London, all way have mugings and there are always gangs that operate from the underground. Ireland does not need this problem so why create it. Another way, which probablly wont work is to run the luas on stilts like a monorail all the way to Bray. It probablly will not work so dont say I didnt say it.

loyatemu

DonnybrookGhost wrote:

It would be a good idea in a sense to have the trams run undergorund to and from Bray because it would cut out all the level crossings and save much more time on journeys to and from Bray. But, I was thinking today about this, it might not be a good idea because all citys that have an underground like New York and London, all way have mugings and there are always gangs that operate from the underground. Ireland does not need this problem so why create it. Another way, which probablly wont work is to run the luas on stilts like a monorail all the way to Bray. It probablly will not work so dont say I didnt say it.

eh??
ever thought of applying for a job with the RPA?

spacetweek

DonnybrookGhost wrote:

It would be a good idea in a sense to have the trams run undergorund to and from Bray because it would cut out all the level... <snip> ...is to run the luas on stilts like a monorail all the way to Bray. It probablly will not work so dont say I didnt say it.

Presume you're taking the smeg?

Firstly the trams are mainly going to be grade-separated (sadly with the exception of the busiest crossing at Leopardstown :rolleyes:) Next: Muggings? Is that a reason not to build public bleedin transport? I think not. Finally, a monorail would be ugly in the extreme and unsuitable to a low-rise area like Southeast Dublin. God almighty!!

Victor

They are hiring. Lots.

http://www.rpa.ie/?id=16

dmeehan

is there any proposed routing in Bray yet?

TrickyRicky

no info yet, though reading last week's "Bray People" it seems that some of the Town Coucillors have already begun arguing over the route. Most seem to agree that the logical terminus would be the DART station, in order to integrate the two systems, but some are arguing for a route that takes in Fassaroe/Little Bray & indeed the whole western side of Bray. Others are arguing for a terminus at Woodbrook since this was the conclusion of the Harcourt line, and is earmarked for sbstantail development over the next decade.

Personally, I'd love to see the luas running on or near Main St, just round the corner from me!!!

jellie

TrickyRicky wrote:

Most seem to agree that the logical terminus would be the DART station, in order to integrate the two systems, but some are arguing for a route that takes in Fassaroe/Little Bray & indeed the whole western side of Bray. Others are arguing for a terminus at Woodbrook since this was the conclusion of the Harcourt line, and is earmarked for sbstantail development over the next decade.

Personally, I'd love to see the luas running on or near Main St, just round the corner from me!!!

where would they PUT it? brays traffic is kind of all over the place as it is. well if you wanted to bring it to the dart station/main street anyway.

Imposter

Excuse my ignorance but surely transport links to other areas of the city should be brought up to the level of the Dart or luas before the Bray area gets another decent transport link!

Lucan, Finglas, Ballymun, Glasnevin, Blanch, Terenure, Rathmines etc. should be upgraded before a tram to Bray.

dowlingm

Imposter

Lucan has a commuter line to the north and south now and under T21 those will be DARTified and there will be a LUAS running through it - although to be honest I can't see the point in the LUAS line when cross radial buses from DART to DART would be a better idea, except that they figure private money will pay for the LUAS.

TrickyRicky

your're forgetting that all those places mentioned are a hell of a lot closer to town than Bray, being closer means less time on the bus routes in those areas, or you could do the green thing and cycle to town, virtually impossible to cycle to town from Bray, it'd be a 24 mile return trip. I say bring the luas to Bray before it's 2015 planned extension. They should extend it as the begin work to Cherrywood next year.

strassenwolf

TrickyRicky wrote:

your're forgetting that all those places mentioned are a hell of a lot closer to town than Bray, being closer means less time on the bus routes in those areas, or you could do the green thing and cycle to town, virtually impossible to cycle to town from Bray, it'd be a 24 mile return trip. I say bring the luas to Bray before it's 2015 planned extension. They should extend it as the begin work to Cherrywood next year.

Most of those suburbs do not have any form of rail connection to other parts of the city. Bray does.

Nobody is suggesting that cycling from Bray to the city centre is an option for everyone, but it is a nice option if wishing to keep fit and be "Green". An alternative to cycling between Bray and the city centre would be to use the DART. This option is not available from Finglas or Ballymun.

The impression I get from your post is that you think it would be a good idea for Bray to have two rail connections with the city centre. Would it be sensible for resources to be spent giving Bray a second rail line before other suburbs get their first?

TrickyRicky

not everyone has good access to the Dart station in Bray, some houses that back onto the line between bray and shankill actually have a good 45 min walk to the station itself. Also the logic behind luas is to reuse the old harcourt line which went to Bray. These are some of the reasons why Bray deserves a luas quickly

jlang

TrickyRicky wrote:

not everyone has good access to the Dart station in Bray, some houses that back onto the line between bray and shankill actually have a good 45 min walk to the station itself. Also the logic behind luas is to reuse the old harcourt line which went to Bray. These are some of the reasons why Bray deserves a luas quickly

Some of that is more a reason for opening a new DART station between Bray and Shankill.

strassenwolf

TrickyRicky wrote:

not everyone has good access to the Dart station in Bray, some houses that back onto the line between bray and shankill actually have a good 45 min walk to the station itself.

I didn't realise that this was the case. Is it one which a LUAS route would be able to solve?

Maybe that problem could be sorted more easily by good targetting of feeder buses or putting in another station as JLANG has just suggested. It doesn't take away from the fact that there are parts of the city which can only dream of a 45 minute walk to a DART station.

Also the logic behind luas is to reuse the old harcourt line which went to Bray. These are some of the reasons why Bray deserves a luas quickly

I thought the logic behind LUAS was to provide a reasonably rapid public transport link between the city and the suburbs. It so happens that this could be done fairly easily on the old Harcourt Street line. It still costs money though to reopen it the whole way out to Bray. Maybe it might be better to spend this money building a LUAS to some other area of the city which has no LUAS or DART rather than to an area which, for the most part, has a very good link to the city centre.

AFAIK the routing out as far as Cherrywood does not go by the Harcourt Street line in places

Slippin Jimmy

What is the suggested route they are taking to Bray? Because when you think of it, if they were going to put a terminus for the Luas beside the Dart, then where would it actually go. There is hardly any room in Brya station at the moment. Would they move the Luas down the road so people will have t walk?

Winters

It'll probably come in from the bypass direction through the north of Bray, through the new town centre planned on the golf course and run over the river along behind the seated terrace in the Carlisle Grounds to the level crossing. Dunno where from there, thats my guess anyway.

TrickyRicky

strassenwolf wrote:

I didn't realise that this was the case. Is it one which a LUAS route would be able to solve?

Maybe that problem could be sorted more easily by good targetting of feeder buses or putting in another station as JLANG has just suggested. It doesn't take away from the fact that there are parts of the city which can only dream of a 45 minute walk to a DART station.

a new station is a possible, and welcome solution, esp. since the new Dundrum-style town centre is being built over the next few years in that area, but dun laoghaire council have plans to put the new station at Shanganagh, on the shankill side, which is no use to Bray, and will just lengthen Dart journeys

As for feeder buses, forget it, you ever commute out or into of Bray on a bus at rush hour? in the mornings it takes 20 mins to travel to 2 miles to the bus lane starting at loughlinstown, and same story in the evening coming back. Dart is a good transport link, but since the population in the greater Bray area is set to increase by a 1/3 over the next decade, its good justification for a luas to solve the transport problems that the Dart or buses cant.

As for a route, it could come off the n11, up the lower dargle road, down ravenswell rd (along the new town centre development) then approach the station from behind, ie along harbour rd & part of strand rd.