My friends just don't understand me!

UU

Dia duit,

I've always known I was different than most other boys. I was never into boy stuff like sports as a child but preferred girlie stuff. As a teenager, I got on quite well with girls but never had sexual feelings for them but for other males like myself. Last year I had a total crush on a bloke in a production I was doing but I had to retain myself. I couldn't stop thinking about him but I overcame it by fancying other boys.:o

I have started telling some of my closest friends who are blokes. One of them accepted but didn't understand very well as he keeps asking me when will I decide to like girls instead. My other friend was totally cool about it as he already knows gay fellows. I really don't feel comfortable telling my four other friends but have to do it as they'll eventually find out. Two of them think homosexuality is some sort of disease or something and gays are dangerous and disgusting. The other two are "blabber mouths" and won't take me seriously and will probably tell everyone in the school. Telling them is the only way of seeing if they're true friends or not.

If that was the case I'd have a tough year (6th year) as I'm stuck in a homophobic school from hell and often all you here is people calling each other "****", "gay", "queer" and if they find out somebody like me really is these things, they'll have a great time "gay-bashing" :eek:. My class in general is relatively laid back though.

Please help me by giving friendly advice especially from other gay people who have endured the similar scenarios in secondary school. All would be appreciated.;)

Go raibh maith agaibh!:)

aquigley

Hi,
I'm glad to see school hasn't changed in the last decade or so. I didn't
out myself at school, Christian Brothers, all boys, north side early 90's...
Yea.. not a chance... It wouldn't have been worth it, I wasn't up to speed
with my own feelings then and none of us (sadly) had the chance to get much
action so people were probably confused. At that stage labels would have
just confused me more. (side note: I once yelled out for a guy, Louis, to
"quit fagging my hair" in French class... Very effective, until he beat me up
later and our psycho French teacher didn't understand my yelp... After
school was over it turned out he was gay too... What a missed chance,
I mistook his come on for an attempt to totally balls up my french essay...
hummm.. perhaps not).

Anyway, I don't envy you but to be honest school is a bit of a weird
messed up place anyway, raging emotions, exam stress, lack of
exam stress, sexual stress...it's all a bit of a mixed bag with anyone
of your school "mates" going through who knows what at a given time.
It might seem like the place to define yourself but you have your 20's to
try that and then realise its a futile effort once you hit your 30's...
(I'm painting a pretty picture here so I'll stop trying to console you).

I'm not sure I could imagine anyway of outing yourself in such a place
that you wouldn't suffer the gay-bashing in the worst case and the
most probably occasional slagging in the best case. Anything that makes
people stick out in school was an opportunity for trouble, have a girlfriend/boyfriend you are a slut/stud - until it ends, smoke and you are
one of the that group, metal music head the other group etc..etc..

In practical terms you could speak to one of the teachers (yea I know this
is a dreaded thought) and see if they could either bring up the topic in
a relevant class or invite a gay or lesbian person into your school to
answer questions. (Johnny could be contacted for this or GLEN?). This will
take a good bit of guts to instigate as who knows the kind of reaction you
might get (grantedly if it's a negative reaction, report the teacher and get
their arse fired...). Overall, getting a gay or lesbian person to come in and
answer questions could be a very easy entry point for you to talk to some
of your "friends". Again, I'm not sure if your school would be willing to
do this and I'm doubly not sure if a gay or lesbian person could provide
enough question/answer material for such a session.... ie.
"So you are gay".... "Yep"... "So you like men" .... "Yep.... etc....etc..
Being gay really is no more amazing than being straight aside from the
roadblocks placed in your way by society and the state...

I don't think young people in Ireland are thought to reflect and consider their circumstance in light of what they say and how it affects others. Again, I'm not sure any class in school would remedy this... Its a fault in our society that will take a long time to fix (if ever). For long time everyone in this country was the same so that any difference was fair game for slagging. Not these days, we live in a very blended society where such things won't stand the test of time without causing major spilts between the new and old Ireland (IMHO).

I think the best advice I could give you is tell those people who you care
about. The kind of friends you would like to have from school in 10 years time and not just your friends of circumstance... (People think they have the very best sole-mate-friend in the world, one in five billion, who just happens to live 3 streets away, is the same age as you and is in your class... lucky break huu...? My point is you will have lots of friends, just make sure they
are the kind of people who would care about *you* and not just a convenient version of you that fits their narrow world view).

Finally, it will all get better as you move into a more mature world. I now work in Dublin and myself and my partner of 8 years (anniversary yesterday) are just part of the day to day social fabric of our work, neighbourhood and friend's lives.... In the end, thats all you want.. A regular life where your sexuality isn't an issue and your life problems are no more complex than the next persons....

All the best and good luck in 6th year,
Aaron.

UU

Aaron,

Thanks a million for your friendly advise. I tried to convince my religion teacher in private (yeah right!) to allow someone to come in talking about homosexual issues and I succeeded. In fact, she seemed pretty keen on it even though she's a devout Catholic. Actually many people in my year didn't seem to mind as some of us in 6th year are quite mature (and most are still the same as they were in 1st year!). In religion in 6th year in our school, guest speakers are invited in to talk about certain topics like homelessness, Amnesty International, etc. so I could wriggle in homosexuality as it is a current social issue.

I suspect some people in my class suspect that I'm gay as my parents and my two friends weren't very suprised. A gay bloke in the church I attend - The Dublin Unitarian Church (which is all up for homosexual rights! Yay!) said that it would get better in colllege/university as there are gay societies there. My uncle who is also gay suggested that I could join a gay group to find people who are like me. In fact, I feel a lot more confident now to tell my friends and plan to tell my class formally at the end as if anyone has a problem it doesn't matter as I may not see much of them again. My friend suggested that I should go to the Debs with another fella for the sake of it - who knows?

Anyway thanks for the reply as I really appreciate it. Who knows maybe by the time I'm in my 20s or 30s, I'll have a parter and Civil Partnerships will be in action or maybe even gay marriages? (Yeah right maybe in 2040?!)

Good luck,

Daniel

JupiterKid

Daniel,

You're very brave to be articulating your identity as a young gay man still in school. I left school, all of 13 years ago and wouldn't have dared to have come out at the time (and being gay was illegal until 1993 in Ireland). School is full of immature gits, especially the guys - if you hold on just another while you'll find it so much easier in uni/college.

I myself came out toward the end of my college days - I was so happy to be myself and express my true feelings. Keeping these feelings bottled inside is really unhealthy and self-destructive. There is a gay youth support group that you could contact - they are called Belongto and if you Google them on the web I'm sure you'll be able to contact them.

Also - try the message baords on Gaire (www.gaire.ie) they are full of really decent and supportive gay and lesbian people who went through what you are going through. I now live in a happy relationship with my long term partner (5 years) we are accepted by eveyone in our families and friends and you'll find that, as you get older, your schooldays seem less and less important. I had a far better time in college than I ever did in school.

Hope this info helps and take care!:)

shay_562

Nothing much to add, just that you should be careful who you tell, and it really, really does get better in college, since the immature twats who'd beat you up are now sweeping floors in Mac D's. Good times. If you do decide to bring a guy to your debs, that'd be class - I really wanted to, but the aul' pair threw a hissyfit and I gave it up as being more hassle than it was worth. Good luck either way!

shinners007

hey im a straight girl and my best mate is gay he told me 2years ago wen we were in 6th year. being gay isnt something you should have to hide but hey why broadcast it either. he got a rough time n school but his totally cool about who he is!!! i didnt mind him being gay its no big deal but ill b honest some guys slagged him off.
guess u should just b ready 4 some good and bad wen coming out.
if ur friends are true friends theyll accept it!!
only u can decide the right time to tell people,
does ur family no ur guy?
sometimes it better wen uve people 2talk with about things.
anyway best of luck and do wat makes u happy:)

Shellie13

UU wrote:

Aaron,

Thanks a million for your friendly advise. I tried to convince my religion teacher in private (yeah right!) to allow someone to come in talking about homosexual issues and I succeeded. In fact, she seemed pretty keen on it even though she's a devout Catholic. Actually many people in my year didn't seem to mind as some of us in 6th year are quite mature (and most are still the same as they were in 1st year!). In religion in 6th year in our school, guest speakers are invited in to talk about certain topics like homelessness, Amnesty International, etc. so I could wriggle in homosexuality as it is a current social issue.

My friend suggested that I should go to the Debs with another fella for the sake of it - who knows?



Daniel

Wow! your school is WAAAY more accepting than mine actually!
All girls catholic place you know the gas! Anyways we cant even bring girls to our debs (yes seriously!-and noone has yet so much as complained!) And the thought of saying that to a religion techer-well Id bless her little soul shed have a heart attack!!!:D

Zillah

School is a really horrible place. It would easiest (not neccessarily best, but easiest) to stay quiet about it for now. College is a wonderful place and you can be a flamingly camp as you like and 90% of people won't even notice.

Seriously, put up with it for half a year and then you're free, laughing all the way.

aquigley

Debs with a guy? Why not, could be good fun and if you bring someone tough they can beat the crap out of anyone who starts anything (I know not the best plan but good to have in mind as a fall back). I went to a Ball this year with my partner and we had a blast, two guys, nice tux. we looked bloody hot and we knew it (no modesty here but it was a great laugh and we danced the night away).

Aaron.

Boston

Sounds to me like you have a very supportive family. Friends come and go, family are the only ones that are always there. See what you actually have and not what you don't. Maybe you're friends will turn out to be tossers, maybe they won't not really important, the ones that arn't tossers you'll keep and the ones that are, well you probably wheren't goign to keep them anyway.

UU

LiouVille wrote:

Sounds to me like you have a very supportive family. Friends come and go, family are the only ones that are always there. See what you actually have and not what you don't. Maybe you're friends will turn out to be tossers, maybe they won't not really important, the ones that aren't tossers you'll keep and the ones that are, well you probably weren't going to keep them anyway.

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for your advise. A true friend is one who likes you for who you are and not your sexuality. Sure I'll be going to college next year and I'll make new friends there and I will probably seldom see my present friends. Anyway, many colleges have gay societies and people are generally more mature and tolerant of homosexuality. Although, there will always be bigots and homophobias so I'll just ignore them.

Boston

UU wrote:

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for your advise. A true friend is one who likes you for who you are and not your sexuality. Sure I'll be going to college next year and I'll make new friends there and I will probably seldom see my present friends. Anyway, many colleges have gay societies and people are generally more mature and tolerant of homosexuality. Although, there will always be bigots and homophobias so I'll just ignore them.

More a case of it's easier to find people that are ok with it due to the large number of people at college. You radiate towards people with a similar outlook on life as yourself, and away from does that don't

Sapien

UU wrote:

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for your advise. A true friend is one who likes you for who you are and not your sexuality. Sure I'll be going to college next year and I'll make new friends there and I will probably seldom see my present friends. Anyway, many colleges have gay societies and people are generally more mature and tolerant of homosexuality. Although, there will always be bigots and homophobias so I'll just ignore them.

What, if any, college do you intend upon attending?

snappieT

Much like yourself, I never played boy-games, tended to hang out with more guys, but all my closest friends being girls. From 2nd class in primary school
onwards, I was slagged with the standard homophobic rants. Bear in mind I only realised I was gay (and came out to my friends) in 3rd year, secondary school. These comments really started to hit home from then on, but at least I had my friend's support.

I came out in school, middle of Irish class, 5th year, day before Easter break. Someone commented on my clothing choice (uniform-free day), and called me a fag. I turned around, asked him what he said and he repeated. I replied "yeah, got a problem with that?" and turned back around. Didn't look at the guy until the end of class, still amazed. Came back after Easter, people asked me was I really gay, I replied honestly, and I got a few sneers, but mostly "fair play" and pats on the back. Then came the "who else do you think is gay" (note, don't fall into that trap, results in pain). After that, I wasn't called gay nearly as much. Went down to once a week rather than once a class. And it didn't feel like the -pink elephant in the room don't talk about it- approach I thought it would. It was genuine acceptance. It felt good.

UU

Sapien wrote:

What, if any, college do you intend upon attending?

Hopefully Trinity College to do an Arts Degree in French and Russian if I get the points - 390 and 315.


Hi snappieT, I haven't come out to my class and don't intend to as I don't think it is any of their business but I think they suspect that I am gay as they know I support gay rights. One day, they were jeering a transvestite they saw in town once and I turned around and called them all "homophobic bigots" which started off a huge argument between myself and the whole class. It was rather fun actually. I said "The nerve of you all calling the person an 'it'. Transvestites are still people too you know". This went on for the whole free class until I got up and walked out the door!

Anyhow, some people in my class would be cool about it. There is a fella who is rather camp but not nessessarily homosexual.

I'm still rather down as I thought my friends were alright about it but I think they were just covering it all up. They are often trying to avoid me and stop speaking when I walk into their conversation. I asked them what's wrong but they are all in denial. They say i'm just being paranoid but I'm not!Only one of my friends seems cool about it but he is much more mature anyway. I need not to worry as I'll be off to college next year! Yay!

Sapien

UU wrote:

Hopefully Trinity College to do an Arts Degree in French and Russian if I get the points - 390 and 315.

Then your problems with acceptance from your peers should soon be at an end.

Enigma365

Its easier to be gay than straight in Trinity.

The Song Thrush

Enigma365 wrote:

Its easier to be gay than straight in Trinity.

Care to elaborate...?

shay_562

Its easier to be gay than straight in Trinity.

Care to elaborate...?

Haven't you heard? They made the official announcement a few months back - following extensive scientific testing, Trinity was confirmed as "the gayest college in all the land". They put a little plaque in Front Arch and everything...

atlantis

shay_562 wrote:

Haven't you heard? They made the official announcement a few months back - following extensive scientific testing, Trinity was confirmed as "the gayest college in all the land". They put a little plaque in Front Arch and everything...

trinity does have a pretty good lgbt. i've been to quite a few of their events this year and they really do have something to brag about (im not sure if i should have said that since it doesnt take a much to start a trinners boy bragging anyway) and i know quite a few members of the lgbt there and even get along with most of them.

anyway back on topic... have to admit UU that you certainly are much braver than i am... i never even dreamed of coming out in my school... and that was only 2 years ago. our religion teacher despite being a nun was all for gay rights and everything and she spent quite a long time discussing the topic to my class. i remember one day she told us the stat that one person in ten is gay and by that there was more than likely at least one gay in the class... i never tried so hard to push myself into the wall and appear invisible. Once i came to college it really did get a lot better though, that is very true. I have always wondered what it would have been like to come out while in school though and at this stage i do wish that i had had the courage at the time... hell it might have great fun who knows...

lifesucks

I'm kinda half out in school at the moment. Its the best craic ever! Around 15 of my closest friends know and we just spend the whole time have private jokes in front of everyone and take the piss out everyone and they dont have a clue what's going on! I dont think id have as much fun if i was fully out because the private jokes would go but i've promised myself to be out by the end of the school year and hopfully that will make it easier to find a guy for the debs:D .. I know if im not fully out by the end of the year that i will live to regret it.

UU i cant imagine what you going through, it hard enough to come out without them reacting badly to it. Out of everyone i told i didnt have one bad reaction (except for one girl who started crying because she fancied me ) Im sure your friends will get used to the idea with time. Your prob best to talk to a few female friends because they tend to be a lot maturer and more understanding of it. As for your friends who are homophobic you never no they might suprise you, my friends who i previously would have branded as homophobic turned out to be the ones who were most supportive of me.

UU

lifesucks wrote:

I'm kinda half out in school at the moment. Its the best craic ever! Around 15 of my closest friends know and we just spend the whole time have private jokes in front of everyone and take the piss out everyone and they don't have a clue what's going on! I don't think id have as much fun if i was fully out because the private jokes would go but I've promised myself to be out by the end of the school year and hopefully that will make it easier to find a guy for the debs:D .. I know if I'm not fully out by the end of the year that i will live to regret it.

UU i cant imagine what you going through, it hard enough to come out without them reacting badly to it. Out of everyone i told i didn't have one bad reaction (except for one girl who started crying because she fancied me ) I'm sure your friends will get used to the idea with time. Your prob best to talk to a few female friends because they tend to be a lot maturer and more understanding of it. As for your friends who are homophobic you never no they might surprise you, my friends who i previously would have branded as homophobic turned out to be the ones who were most supportive of me.

Hey Lifesucks! (Does life really suck for you?)

Well, my friends aren't really bigots about my homosexuality. I suppose homophobia really means a fear of homosexuals rather than a discrimination (although the word sort of means discrimination these days - damn English language!) They just don't understand gayness but I'll give them time and see. You see, my uncle is also gay so that's why I was never a bigot of gays before I realised I was gay myself! A majority of girls over boys do tend to be far more mature and accepting but all of my very close friends are males. I will come out to my class but at the end of the year - maybe I'll go to the Debs with another bloke! Why not?

JupiterKid

UU,

I really wish I had the courage in school to be as confident as you and some of the other posters on this thread in being so articulated about your sexuality. Back when I was secondary school, in the early 1990s, it was still illegal to have gay sex and homophobia was the norm in society. I was deeply closeted, needless to say, trying to be straight and going out with girls in the hope that I would be "normal". The psychological damage that homophobia and heterocentrism does to gay and lesbian people is immense and despicable. Luckily, I was quite unscathed by prejudice and had a great group of mates, but I know plenty of older gay men who were completely f***ed up as a result of their struggle with their true sexuality.

I actually went on to Trinity after school and it was fantastic. I didn't come straight out though - I self-identified in second and third year as bi, before finally taking the plunge and coming fully out as gay my final year. I had an absolute ball there - I admittedly wasn't a member of the LGBT society but knew a few who were and they were great people. Trinity is probably the most socially liberal third level institution in Ireland and there's no better place to be out and proud in. Back in the mid 1990s it was pretty gay friendly so a decade later - it must practically be a gay Mecca!

One of the funniest things was at my 10 year school reunion - two really jock type guys in my year who had played on the Rugby Senior Cup together were there as a gay couple. That raised a few eyebrows, as you can imagine!!

UU

To JuniperKid, was it really still illegal to have gay sex in the early 1990s? That's crazy!

Hunter S

Trinity is probably the most socially liberal third level institution in Ireland and there's no better place to be out and proud in. Back in the mid 1990s it was pretty gay friendly so a decade later - it must practically be a gay Mecca!

No thats UCC!!!!!:D

atlantis

Hunter S wrote:

No thats UCC!!!!!:D

i remember when they used to say the maynooth was the gayest college in ireland... i dont think they say that anymore