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General Cash game situations

  • 01-11-2005 10:49am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭


    Im mainly a tourney player who has little experience of cash games and any previous experiences of cash games have found me being the fish of the table.ive decided to start trying to rack up a few thousand hands of .25/.50 6seater cash games on PPP. Having played a few hours over the weekend ive some queries as to what to do in these type of situations. I dont believe there is any exact right or wrong answers,im just looking for peoples opinions on what they do and why they do it.

    SITUATION 1 - Medium Pocket Pairs
    Basically im talking about 22-1010 here. My question is this...How big a raise are you willing to call with the likes of 55 etc. ie how many bbs of a raise. For example say u limp utg with 33, someone raises to 2.50...do u call?also say now there is reraise to 5.50,do u still call? Are stack sizes important here and how big a part does implied odds play in your decision?What about position, is this another relevant factor?

    SITUATION 2 - AK/AQ in BB
    How do you play these 2 hands when your in the bb after 4 limpers for example?do you raise and if so how much?Now what about continuation bets on the flop if u miss?do u bet and if so how much?Does the texture of the flop factor in your decision to bet or not e.g. do u bet at a flop of 9 7 3 and check a flop of Q J 8 with 2 hearts for example?

    SITUATION 3 - Playing in the SB
    What im talking about here is say there has been 3 limpers and you have Q6/K4/J7 etc...do u call the bb?your getting nearly 9 - 1 on your money here. As well as this does implied odds play a part in whether you decide to call or not? Say for exmple you call with K8 and flop brings 8 6 4, do u bet out or check?

    I know these are very general questions however ive seen these situations cropping up a lot over the weekend and am trying to figure out the best way to play them as im relatively new to cash games. All advice and comments greatly appreciated cheers


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Wallko


    lol glad to see your new job is keeping you busy Will, open up msn.
    oh yeah and fold them all coz your a fish:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭careca


    Situation 1
    I would normally call here for a small raise (2-3 times the BB). I know a lot of people will say limp and fold to a raise as you are not getting the odds. A set of 2s or 3s can be nicely disguised , therefore I reckon the implied odds are worth it. Course I would often also raise preflop with small pocket pairs just to vary my play.

    Situtation 2
    Depends an awful lot on the other players at the table and my image to that point. Probably as you say, continuation bet on raggy board or sometimes any board but be willing to let it go. Too many people fall in love with AK.

    Situtation 3
    In a small cash game I would definately complete the BB from the SB with any two especially if there are a lot of limpers. Again though you have to be willing to let the hand go. in the situation you mentioned (K4, board K83 or something like that) I would put out a teaser bet and if raised you have to think you are behind.

    Just my two cents worth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Tackle


    SITUATION 1 -
    Only call with the small/medium pp's if there are going to be big stacks in the pot. 2.50 is generally the maximum you should pay to see the flop. If I'm going for a set with 88 or lower, position is not really an issue.

    SITUATION 2 -
    Don't raise them, at .25/.50 all the limpers will call you and you don't want to be out of position facing several professional callers with these type of hands.

    SITUATION 3 -
    a). I'd only call with these hands from sb if they're suited. 9-1 preflop pot odds aren't much use with a poor hand out of position facing several opponents.

    b).If there's 3 or less opponents I bet, with more I check and fold the flop to a bet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    willis wrote:
    SITUATION 1 - Medium Pocket Pairs
    Basically im talking about 22-1010 here. My question is this...How big a raise are you willing to call with the likes of 55 etc. ie how many bbs of a raise. For example say u limp utg with 33, someone raises to 2.50...do u call?also say now there is reraise to 5.50,do u still call? Are stack sizes important here and how big a part does implied odds play in your decision?What about position, is this another relevant factor?
    8's, 9's and T's should probably call most raises. If raiser is very loose, then maybe reraise. I'd call up to 5 or 6 BB of a raise with most pairs if the raiser has at least 8*raise ish and you can be pretty sure you'll get paid off if you hit your set. If there are other limpers then definitely call. If there's a reraise it's tricky but again i'd go with the 8*betsize in his stack as there's a better than normal chance or getting a reraiser all-in if you hit the set. Calling a reraise is dangerous though if the original raiser still has to act on the raise.
    SITUATION 2 - AK/AQ in BB
    How do you play these 2 hands when your in the bb after 4 limpers for example?do you raise and if so how much?Now what about continuation bets on the flop if u miss?do u bet and if so how much?Does the texture of the flop factor in your decision to bet or not e.g. do u bet at a flop of 9 7 3 and check a flop of Q J 8 with 2 hearts for example?
    I find 2-3BB + what's on the table (not including the blinds) is a nice preflop raise. So with 3 limpers, i'd raise it to 5bb's. 1-2 limpers, possibly 4bb's. It really depends on what you think people will call and whether you want a call or not.

    Mix up the continuation bets. Maybe do it 70-80% of the time (especially in early pos - like in the blinds - as bluffing here can get you in a lot of trouble). Size depends on whether you want to win it there and then Vs the risk you're willing ot take. I find 2/3's of the pot is a good amount. But do the same as you'd do if you'd a hand. Otherwise you give away too much info.
    SITUATION 3 - Playing in the SB
    What im talking about here is say there has been 3 limpers and you have Q6/K4/J7 etc...do u call the bb?your getting nearly 9 - 1 on your money here. As well as this does implied odds play a part in whether you decide to call or not? Say for exmple you call with K8 and flop brings 8 6 4, do u bet out or check?
    I'd call most times here depending on the table.
    I wouldn't bet out but i'd check-raise a bet from someone in late pos. Betting out here screams that you've hit something and want the pot now. Way too easy for you to end up folding the best hand to a bluff here. Reraising gives you the info you want and if the betsize is good it's far better than leading out here imo. Against 1 or 2 opponents leading out on low boards can work but again it depends on the levels you play and the players there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    SITUATION 1 - Medium Pocket Pairs

    It depends on the stack sizes of you and your opponents, if they're both big, and you think you can stack him if you hit your trips I call, As you mentioned, Implied odds are the major factor to consider here. Position is important but not that important IMHO, if you hit your card then it just depends on who the opponent is, if he's aggressive, let him do the betting, if he's passive bet into him. If there's a raise and a re-raise fold, might be another re-raise and just too risky.

    SITUATION 2 - AK/AQ in BB

    Pre-flop I'd raise 3x BB + 1 BB per limper here, you want to isolate against one opponent if possible, you are out of position, and don't have anything yet. AQ, I play more conservatively with. Continuation Bet of about half the pot usually, but you need to bet the exact same as you always would whether you hit or not. The texture of the flop is very important, you need to know what sort of hand you're representing, if there's any broadway cards, I'm betting, they'll think you hit your A kicker or have an overpair, with small slightly coordinated, rainbow or 2 suited flops, I'd also bet the about the pot, you're representing an over pair/ nut flush draw, etc. and looking to protect or build the pot and it's hard for someone without a good draw or trips to call

    SITUATION 3 - Playing in the SB

    I'd call with any two, hoping to hit a big flop, but I'm not doing anything too creative unless the texture of the flop and the action of the players looks like noone has anything and with your "any 2" could easily have 2 pair or some crazy draw.
    In your example hand I'd bet out, it looks like a nice blind type of flop and if you get anymore action re-evaluate based on the player playing back at you.

    EDIT: I like Imposters line on this check raise too, probably a better play if you've no info on your opponents.

    Obviously my normal disclaimer applies, the above is also very general, and the most important factor to build into any situation is the person you're up against, if the hand is the first hand he's played in 25 and his VPiP is 8% don't go too mad, whereas if he has a VPiP of 77% then you need to make him pay for his looseness.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    Ste05 wrote:
    SITUATION 1 - Medium Pocket Pairs

    It depends on the stack sizes of you and your opponents, if they're both big, and you think you can stack him if you hit your trips I call, As you mentioned, Implied odds are the major factor to consider here. Position is important but not that important IMHO.
    I usually prefer to have more than 2, preferably 3 or 4 people in the pot if I'm limping with small/med pairs to hit a set.

    If I'm in the BB with 44 and the button raises 3xBB after everyone folds, I usually fold. Too weak tight?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    lafortezza wrote:
    I usually prefer to have more than 2, preferably 3 or 4 people in the pot if I'm limping with small/med pairs to hit a set.

    If I'm in the BB with 44 and the button raises 3xBB after everyone folds, I usually fold. Too weak tight?
    It certainly would be prefarable to have more than one player, in the pot, however the flip side of that is that when there are more than one player, the other players in the pot can scare each other out of it, and you might not win as much as against one player, who will find it harder to believe you for a set, you wouldn't need trips to bet into 1 player, but might to bet into 3 or 4??

    In the second scenario, I'd always call this, and lead out on the flop. You will normally at least have outs, and could well be leading, you can also tell him not to mess with your blind, his hand range wouldn't be that tight here normally, although it's not recommended to defend your blinds too strongly in cash games, as you would need to in a tournament, if you let him take the blinds 2 out of 3 times like this and then 1 out of 3 times you defend them you end up winning money long term, ( he wins 2 BB's and you win his 3BB's assuming that's always his raise) and that's also assuming you don't accidently get a hand and hit it. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    With a pocket pair that you are only going to play for set value you should only really call the raise if its less than 10% of the effective stack. So if you both have $100 you can call up to $10. Also as lafortezza hinted at you need to know that the raiser has a big hand so calling a button raise with it (and no one else in the pot) isnt going to be a profitable play, because if he is raising with a wide range of hands then he isnt likely to pay off his whole stack if you do hit a set.

    AK/AQ

    One of the main reasons you raise with AK AQ is actually to cover for the times you raise with pocket pairs. However at the low limits people arent paying enough attention, so Id advise a beginner to only raise these in position, never from the blinds. When you are happy playing them from the button then raise with them from the blinds.

    SB

    I will play any hand that can flop a strong hand, not including trips/FH/Quads. So 43 is in, but k2o is out. Anything suited.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭willis


    cheers for the opinions lads, im thinking along the same lines as most of you however feel that at this level hector is right regarding ak/aq situation. limpers at this level usually call a raise and so im out of position with a drawing hand and have decisions to make regarding continuation bets on the flop. also if i just check in the bb with ak or aq then my hand is nicely disguised if i do hit. at a higher level maybe a raise is more appropriate

    Another question..should i be looking for tables with players who have big stacks i.e. more than the max buyin or should i be looking for a table full of players with roughly half the max buyin?or does it even matter


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    With a pocket pair that you are only going to play for set value you should only really call the raise if its less than 10% of the effective stack. So if you both have $100 you can call up to $10.
    Myself personally wouldn't call for this high a bet, although I can see how it would be a +EV call, I think you need the BR that can handle bigger swings if you're calling for 10% of your effective stack, against one opponent I'd only really call for maybe 5% or about 3-4BB's, and obviously only if his stack is worth taking.....:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭Marq


    lafortezza wrote:
    If I'm in the BB with 44 and the button raises 3xBB after everyone folds, I usually fold. Too weak tight?
    You're a fish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,754 ✭✭✭ianmc38


    Marq wrote:
    You're a fish.

    :D:D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Ste05 wrote:
    Myself personally wouldn't call for this high a bet, although I can see how it would be a +EV call, I think you need the BR that can handle bigger swings if you're calling for 10% of your effective stack, against one opponent I'd only really call for maybe 5% or about 3-4BB's, and obviously only if his stack is worth taking.....:D

    I don't believe this really increases variance a lot, so it isn't much to do with your bankroll. After all you only expect to be playing a big pot if you're miles ahead.

    You shouldn't be calling most of the time for 10% of your stack heads up if you believe he has a higher pair anyway. Just pointing out it's nothing to do with bankroll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    Marq wrote:
    You're a fish.
    rolleyes1xz.gif

    Takes one to know one Mr Pro!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    willis wrote:
    SITUATION 1 - Medium Pocket Pairs
    Basically im talking about 22-1010 here. My question is this...How big a raise are you willing to call with the likes of 55 etc.

    SITUATION 2 - AK/AQ in BB
    How do you play these 2 hands when your in the bb after 4 limpers for example?

    SITUATION 3 - Playing in the SB
    What im talking about here is say there has been 3 limpers and you have Q6/K4/J7 etc...do u call the bb?

    I don't play cash games but in tournaments ....
    Situation 1
    Throw away small pairs. Only play these with a 3+ callers (and no raise), and preferably when you are near the blinds i.e last to speak.
    Situation 2
    Call only. If you hit bet to test the water. If someone calls be wary of trips. You could have raised pre-flop against 1 or 2 players. Although AQ looks good it can cost you a lot.
    Situation 3
    I would call but you need to hit trips or two pair. If you hit your big card only you may still be behind. Try to check it down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    willis wrote:
    SITUATION 3 - Playing in the SB
    What im talking about here is say there has been 3 limpers and you have Q6/K4/J7 etc...do u call the bb?your getting nearly 9 - 1 on your money here. As well as this does implied odds play a part in whether you decide to call or not? Say for exmple you call with K8 and flop brings 8 6 4, do u bet out or check?

    The €400 tourney in the Merrion last Thursday. It's only about half an hour into the tourney and players still have most of their starting 4000 chips. Blinds are 50, 100. Scandanavian guy in 2nd position holds K9. I am in the SB and have XX. Three callers before me, I call, and the BB checks. Flop 9 5 2. First to speak I bet 300, he raises to 800, I re-raise to 1800. He calls. Turn is K. He goes all-in. I call. He loses.
    Although he was not in the SB as in your example his hand was not particularly strong going in and even though he hit both his cards it was not enough.
    You have to listen to the bets. They paint a picture.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    kincsem wrote:
    I don't play cash games but in tournaments ....
    Situation 1
    Throw away small pairs. Only play these with a 3+ callers (and no raise), and preferably when you are near the blinds i.e last to speak.
    Situation 2
    Call only. If you hit bet to test the water. If someone calls be wary of trips. You could have raised pre-flop against 1 or 2 players. Although AQ looks good it can cost you a lot.
    Situation 3
    I would call but you need to hit trips or two pair. If you hit your big card only you may still be behind. Try to check it down.


    Just a warning - I dont think everyone can play ultra aggressive like this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    Just a warning - I dont think everyone can play ultra aggressive like this
    LMAO


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