Irish Muslims integration into the Irish society

Suff

Do you know any Muslim personally? in either work, college or maybe one of your neighbors?

Any thoughts on what Irish Muslims should do to establish a healthy integration into the Irish society?

marco murphy

Non irish muslims , in my opinion and from what i have met, are extremely mannerly and lovely people

Qadri

And what about Irish Muslims ?

I have a couple of students. They are real Irish and they are new Muslims. And they are also very good.

HelterSkelter

Qadri wrote:

And what about Irish Muslims ?

I have a couple of students. They are real Irish and they are new Muslims. And they are also very good.

Are they Irish people who converted to Islam?

Suff

HelterSkelter wrote:

Are they Irish people who converted to Islam?

I am sure there are! I know 3 people and I know there are more Irish women who convert then men!!

HelterSkelter

I am interested in the Irish people who convert. What were their reasons for converting? How did they become interested in Islam? What were the reactions of their family, friends, work colleagues, etc?

Suff

To really answer this we need an Irish convert to join here
so if any of you knows one ask them if they like to join us here.

Qadri

Yes they are Irish . I will ask them to join the forum. Alternatively you can search the internet and will find many websites with experiences of Western converts to Islam.

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

I am sure there are! I know 3 people and I know there are more Irish women who convert then men!!

Are these converts women who marry Muslim men? I seem to remember that while a Muslim man may marry a non Muslim(with certain conditions), a Muslim woman can't marry a non Muslim under any circumstance. That might explain the difference in number of converts(from the marriage point of view anyhoo).

ferdi

one of my best mates is an irish muslim. that fact that he is muslim dosnt really come into it.

Suff

ferdi wrote:

one of my best mates is an irish muslim. that fact that he is muslim dosnt really come into it.

Ask him to join here so we can plage him with Questions

ferdi

he is a member of boards but i doubt he wants to pontificate online

Wibbs

A non pontificating member of boards? A likely story.:)

Hobbes

Suff wrote:

Do you know any Muslim personally? in either work, college or maybe one of your neighbors?

Any thoughts on what Irish Muslims should do to establish a healthy integration into the Irish society?

Prehaps you can expand on exactly what it is you mean? I know quite a few muslims inside and outside of work. Apart from them having to pray at certain times and they don't drink they are no different then anyone else I have met. There are decent people and there are assholes and there are total loons, pretty much the same as everyone else.

You may as well ask how Kerry people can establish a healty integration with Dublin people.

wes

This is a good question. I was born here, but my parents are Muslim so was raised one. I have to say I have not encountered many Irish converts, besides one lad and that was a brief conversation.

I would have to wonder about people's reaction, I don't have to much of a problem as most people aren't surprised that I am not a Christian on account of my ethnicity.

I suppose as said earlier the only way we are gonna find out if such a person posts here. Still no harm in wondering out loud.

marco murphy

Qadri wrote:

And what about Irish Muslims ?

I have a couple of students. They are real Irish and they are new Muslims. And they are also very good.

I know few converts, infact... only one, so i cant judge.

Suff

Hobbes wrote:

Prehaps you can expand on exactly what it is you mean? I know quite a few muslims inside and outside of work. Apart from them having to pray at certain times and they don't drink they are no different then anyone else I have met. There are decent people and there are assholes and there are total loons, pretty much the same as everyone else.

You may as well ask how Kerry people can establish a healty integration with Dublin people.

I think that Muslims in Ireland are not integrated into the society. they are relectant to, this need to be addressed.
they don't interact with the Irish as much as they should, IMO!

hairyheretic

Suff wrote:

I think that Muslims in Ireland are not integrated into the society. they are relectant to, this need to be addressed.

Why do you believe that this is?

At the risk of somewhat derailing this thread (mods please feel free to split this to a new topic if applicable) the news reports of the recent rioting in Paris has indicated that muslim youths are the ones doing this, and that the lack of integration into French society may be at least a contributory fact.

Do you believe that muslims are reluctant to integrate with (Western?) societies, or the countries that they move to? Even first generations seem to identify with their parents religion / culture moreso than the ones of where they have lived.

wes

I reckon I am pretty integrated here. Maybe I am the exception rather than the rule. Friends of mine would identify me as Irish (which is how I identify myself). Muslims can integrate here easily enough, or maybe again thats just me.

Suff

I don't know why they don't integrate.

I have been living in Dublin now for the past 10 years.
I really think of myself as a half Irish half Syrian. I have integrated completely into the irish society [well cos there are hardly any Syrians in Ireland ]
Work is always great fun, meeting new people [try to convert them no really.]
I used to go out with them into pubs (Me no drink) and enjoy it until 11 pm when the silly talk starts that's when I leave.
I do go for dinner parties, weddings and even funreals and I am very involved with my area's activities if it's either social or political.
but the Muslims I know hardly do any of this at all! they just go to their college/work and that's it nothing outside this.

Maybe they are afraid of losing some of their culture?

OfflerCrocGod

hairyheretic wrote:

At the risk of somewhat derailing this thread (mods please feel free to split this to a new topic if applicable) the news reports of the recent rioting in Paris has indicated that muslim youths are the ones doing this, and that the lack of integration into French society may be at least a contributory fact.

Not totally true - the riots in France are more to do with the fact that they are being discriminated againts for their skin colour more then for their religion. If you have the wrong name or skin colour you can find it a lot harder to get a job in France and the religion is not the problem factor; it's simply that these 1st and 2nd generation immigrants are not seen as French by the "old" French. This leads to them being segregated to crappy suburbs like Clichy-sous-Bois with poor infrastructure and job prospects. These young people who should see their identity as French are instead denied this feeling of belonging so instead turn to the only other community they have and that is Islam. The French are paying for their decades of racism, I hope they pay good and hard so that they never make the same mistake: "Liberte, Equalite, Fraternite" is for all French people and NOT just white French

hairyheretic wrote:

Do you believe that muslims are reluctant to integrate with (Western?) societies, or the countries that they move to? Even first generations seem to identify with their parents religion / culture moreso than the ones of where they have lived.

It really depends on the society they move to; if the society supports multi-culturism and seperate schooling based on faith or racial background then it makes it hard to intergrate. That's the reason I'm againts Christian, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim etc schools the sole purpose of those schools is to seperate; they reinforce divisions. We need a more US style school system where state and school are seperate and there is no religion in the school. Once we have that the younger generations will naturally integrate and leave behind the mores and bigotry of their parents.

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

[try to convert them no really.]

Ah here, watch it you....:D

I used to go out with them into pubs (Me no drink) and enjoy it until 11 pm when the silly talk starts that's when I leave.

Sadly, even if you drink that can be the case too.:D

Maybe they are afraid of losing some of their culture?

Maybe, but I do think OfflerCrocGod's last paragraph in his last post sums it up quite well. So long as there is seperation(espcially of children) this will continue to be a problem.

Suff

Wibbs wrote:

Ah here, watch it you....:D

Jokie joke

Wibbs wrote:

So long as there is seperation(espcially of children) this will continue to be a problem.

I agree 100%.......what can be done?

Hobbes

Suff wrote:

I think that Muslims in Ireland are not integrated into the society. they are relectant to, this need to be addressed.
they don't interact with the Irish as much as they should, IMO!

And your basis for this information is? What exactly?

How do you know if the person is muslim or not? You do know that a lot of Muslim countries that people of that country look exactly like us, and Ireland has had Muslims in the country for a few generations.

And forgive me, but the only implying you seem to be coming across is persons looks defines if they are Muslim or not because there is no real other way of telling if they are Muslim easily or not.

Or to add to that, unless your friends with a person it is very hard to say what they do outside.

I'd say those less willing to integrate would be more to do with the ex-Pat attitude/homesickness and less of one of religon.

btw, anyone wants to discuss the france riots there is an ongoing thread already.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=319993

Suff

Hobbes wrote:

And your basis for this information is? What exactly?

My own experiance , Duh!

Hobbes wrote:

How do you know if the person is muslim or not? You do know that a lot of Muslim countries that people of that country look exactly like us, and Ireland has had Muslims in the country for a few generations.

Looks is not the issue, it's the way of life and interaction.
Islam defines the way you live your life, it's not only a faith, its a way of life, thats how I would know, like the commetment to daily prayers, food and their prospective on life.

Hobbes wrote:

And forgive me, but the only implying you seem to be coming across is persons looks defines if they are Muslim or not because there is no real other way of telling if they are Muslim easily or not.

I forgive you , but like I said above, it's not on looks it's the way of life.
take myself as an example, I don't have the distingtive arabic look, (Syrian's don't look arabic) but I am one, the only visible statment that I am a muslim is my commetment to daily prayers (Pray when Prayer time is due) and my prefrence on food (no pork/Alcholol).
when it comes to the comunity I am known to be a muslim only because people asks.

Hobbes wrote:

Or to add to that, unless your friends with a person it is very hard to say what they do outside.

sure, but you can see what people do from any local social / community activities or even on a larger scale.

Hobbes wrote:

I'd say those less willing to integrate would be more to do with the ex-Pat attitude/homesickness and less of one of religon.

as a point... maybe however we don't see much interactin in the public eyes, it would be mainly negative feedback from the media.

Wibbs

Hobbes wrote:

And forgive me, but the only implying you seem to be coming across is persons looks defines if they are Muslim or not because there is no real other way of telling if they are Muslim easily or not.

Very true, especially with Male Muslims. Female Muslims would be easier to spot(headscarves etc)

I'd say those less willing to integrate would be more to do with the ex-Pat attitude/homesickness and less of one of religon.

True, people tend to hang out like with like and as religion(not just Islam) is a binding force in any community, I would suppose it also has a large part to play in that. Islam may be more prone to that as it is more a way of life as Suff suggests. Christianity as an example has become a little less outwardly visible in many peoples lives so that clubbing together may be less apparent(I'm thinking of the many eastern Europeans living here, most of which would be Russian orthodox, but they generally wouldn't stand out as much, in dress etc).

tonyj

Suff wrote:

Any thoughts on what Irish Muslims should do to establish a healthy integration into the Irish society?

Why is integration so important anyway, and what are the benefits to Muslims?

Muslims share a common culture and lifestyle, so integrating with other Muslims is logical. Why go to the effort of integrating with a society which is based around so many things which do not conform to the Muslim way of life (pubs, drinking, gambling etc.)?

What does integration mean? - And how do you define when integration has been achieved?

Does it mean acknowledging Muslims in the supermarket? - Waving at them on their way to the mosque? - Saying hello to them as they walk into their house? - What exactly would make a Muslim feel 'integrated'?

Wibbs

tonyj wrote:

Does it mean acknowledging Muslims in the supermarket? - Waving at them on their way to the mosque? - Saying hello to them as they walk into their house? - What exactly would make a Muslim feel 'integrated'?

All of the above going both ways would be a start anyway. Kinda the 1st in the list happened to me last night. Well he knocked me over by mistake. Nice chap though, very friendly. Had a chat about the cost of living while at the checkout later(collective moan actually) and this lad you would not mistake for anything but a Muslim. Arabic, with all the gear and the big flowing beard. Precisely the type that your prejudiced types would freak out about.:rolleyes: He seemed "integrated" enough to me(God bless the eddie hobbs factor. Brings everyone together ).

wes

Wibbs wrote:

Very true, especially with Male Muslims. Female Muslims would be easier to spot(headscarves etc)

A lot don't wear the scarf. Actually pretty much all the Muslim women I know don't wear one.

Wibbs

wes wrote:

A lot don't wear the scarf. Actually pretty much all the Muslim women I know don't wear one.

Oh right, I thought that while there may be more extreme versions, at least the hair had to be covered.

Qadri

Originally Posted by wes
A lot don't wear the scarf. Actually pretty much all the Muslim women I know don't wear one.

All of them are not following Islam practically than. May Allah (swt) give them hidayah, amin.

To wear a scarf r is Fard (compulsary) according to Islamic Shariah.
Woman are not supposed to cover the face, but if one wishes to do so its allowed.

Suff

tonyj wrote:

Why is integration so important anyway, and what are the benefits to Muslims?

Stop the isolation for a start, eqality when it comes to jobs and might stop people from stearing when they see a woman wearing the hijab (Head scarf)
...funny why don't they stear when a nun walk by?

tonyj wrote:

Muslims share a common culture and lifestyle.

In correct, as Muslims come from different cultures and backgrounds each has it's own unique way of life.

tonyj wrote:

Why go to the effort of integrating with a society which is based around so many things which do not conform to the Muslim way of life (pubs, drinking, gambling etc.)?

I'm not saying they should become part of the list you gave, I think it would be better for educating people on what muslims are and how to deal with them and for the muslims to learn how to deal with non-muslims.

tonyj wrote:

What exactly would make a Muslim feel 'integrated'?

Become recognised as a national member of the state (example,..Ireland, Holland and the UK) other than just a Muslim from Imigrant parents.
Live life with ease with other people and try to benefit and work towards the goodness of the state and community.

IMO first thing they need to do is to adopt the state as their "HOME"
work and live as if they are at their "origional" homeland.

HelterSkelter

Qadri wrote:

All of them are not following Islam practically than. May Allah (swt) give them hidayah, amin.

To wear a scarf r is Fard (compulsary) according to Islamic Shariah.
Woman are not supposed to cover the face, but if one wishes to do so its allowed.

I thought the Qur'an said it was optional?

tonyj

Suff wrote:

Stop the isolation for a start, eqality when it comes to jobs and might stop people from stearing when they see a woman wearing the hijab (Head scarf) ...funny why don't they stear when a nun walk by?

Do you have examples of Muslims being discriminated against while looking for a job? - Discrimination based on ground of sex, religion or age is taken very seriously in this country. If you have specific examples then let us know.

Muslim women wearing hijab are a relatively new addition to society. People here are used to seeing nuns on the street. If a nun from Ireland walked down a street in a Muslim country, I'm sure she would be stared at as well.

Do you have any other examples of 'isolation'?

Suff wrote:

In correct, as Muslims come from different cultures and backgrounds each has it's own unique way of life.

My point was that the Muslim lifestyle is dictated by their religious beliefs, it has this at its core, and is a common trait regardless of home country.

Suff wrote:

I'm not saying they should become part of the list you gave, I think it would be better for educating people on what muslims are and how to deal with them and for the muslims to learn how to deal with non-muslims.

'Deal with them'? They are in this country, they have jobs, friends, their religion, their lifestyle. Nobody is interfering with that. What is there to deal with?

Suff wrote:

Become recognised as a national member of the state (example,..Ireland, Holland and the UK) other than just a Muslim from Imigrant parents.

Immigration laws apply to all immigrants equally. There are no laws which state that Muslim immigrants should be treated any differently.

When an immigrant (Muslim or otherwise) becomes an Irish citizen, then the state treats them the same way as any other Irish citizen. I can't see how Muslims are getting a raw deal here.

Suff wrote:

Live life with ease with other people and try to benefit and work towards the goodness of the state and community.

'Living life with ease' is an individual choice. The state has no control over whether someone decides to live their life with ease or not.

If that's your definition of integration, then it seems that native Irish Catholics aren't even integrated yet, let alone immigrant Muslims.

Suff wrote:

IMO first thing they need to do is to adopt the state as their "HOME" work and live as if they are at their "origional" homeland.

This statement contradicts itself. If they adopt the state as their 'Home', then they should work and live according to the laws and customs of the state, not their original homeland (religious customs aside).

Otherwise we would face a difficult situation attempting to merge Shariah law with Irish state law.

Osman

Peace HelterSkelter,

HelterSkelter wrote:

I thought the Qur'an said it was optional?

No, the Qur'an is quite clear on the issue.

(24:31) Surah An-Noor (the light) verse 31
وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

Regards,

Osman

Wibbs

To Wes, Helterskelter and Osman, maybe a seperate thread on the wearing of hijab might be in order, as there does seem to be some discussion on this matter. I've seen some Muslim women wearing anything from a headscarf to a the full covering as described by Osman in his last post. As Wes said there are Muslim women who don't wear a headscarf generally(I'm thinking of Muslims in Croatia and places like that). Is there any leeway in the translation? Is there any difference on the translation of Juyubihinna? (Qadri springs to mind as someone with the knowledge to give some answer).

grubber

Osman wrote:

Peace HelterSkelter,



No, the Qur'an is quite clear on the issue.

(24:31) Surah An-Noor (the light) verse 31
وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

Regards,

Osman

Ugh! for a minute there I had a horrible feeling of being plunged back to the middle ages and oppressive religious intolerance. Glad it was only a dream!

OfflerCrocGod

Osman wrote:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

The more I learn the less I like it. It's like Xanity !

Qadri

To Wes, Helterskelter and Osman, maybe a seperate thread on the wearing of hijab might be in order, as there does seem to be some discussion on this matter. I've seen some Muslim women wearing anything from a headscarf to a the full covering as described by Osman in his last post. As Wes said there are Muslim women who don't wear a headscarf generally(I'm thinking of Muslims in Croatia and places like that). Is there any leeway in the translation? Is there any difference on the translation of Juyubihinna? (Qadri springs to mind as someone with the knowledge to give some answer).

The Islamic Shariah is made from Quran and authentic sayings of the Prophet (SAW) In the verse quoted the word Juyubihinna refers to the bossom ( which is attractive part of woman for most man) so it should be covered.

The explaination and implementation is given through an authentic Hadith that a Lady asked the Prophet (SAW) what should be covered of the woman's body. The Prophet (SAW) said except of the face , hands and feet a woman must cover evertyghing in front of a Ghair Mahram (someone with who a woman can not marry like father brother uncle etc.)

So from these 2 sources (The Quran verse and the Sahih Hadith) the scholars of Islamic Fiqh (Jurisprudence) have perceived that scarf is complsary.

Wibbs

Yep I figured Qadri would have an answer .

As a matter of interest, many far eastern Muslim women don't wear the Arabic form of dress. They may wear trousers, headscarf etc, which would seem to cover up all the parts mentioned and follow the Quranic instruction pretty well. Is this form of dress acceptable to Muslims in general? I ask as the more complete veiling seems to be more "religious" for want of a better word.

Qadri

As a matter of interest, many far eastern Muslim women don't wear the Arabic form of dress. They may wear trousers, headscarf etc, which would seem to cover up all the parts mentioned and follow the Quranic instruction pretty well. Is this form of dress acceptable to Muslims in general? I ask as the more complete veiling seems to be more "religious" for want of a better word.

Yes it is acceptable by Shariah as long as the clothes cover the parts described above and also the clothes should not be tight so that the shape can be seen.

The more complete veiling is also permissible, but this is not compulsary. If one wears that with Free will , it is rewarded also.

And Allah knows best...

Wibbs

Qadri wrote:

also the clothes should not be tight so that the shape can be seen.

That kinda rules out trousers though, as the shape can be seen. So we're back to the full thing again I suppose. Does it actually state the bit about the shape as well?(sorry to hijack the thread BTW)

Qadri

That kinda rules out trousers though, as the shape can be seen. So we're back to the full thing again I suppose. Does it actually state the bit about the shape as well?(sorry to hijack the thread BTW)

It does not rule out loose trousers. It rules out tight trousers which are weared now a days for example. According to Shariah its not allowed to wear tight clothes because this will create attraction and impure toughts...

HelterSkelter

Qadri wrote:

That kinda rules out trousers though, as the shape can be seen. So we're back to the full thing again I suppose. Does it actually state the bit about the shape as well?(sorry to hijack the thread BTW)

It does not rule out loose trousers. It rules out tight trousers which are weared now a days for example. According to Shariah its not allowed to wear tight clothes because this will create attraction and impure toughts...

Quadri, check your PM's, I sent you one. Thanks.

Wibbs

Qadri wrote:

It does not rule out loose trousers. It rules out tight trousers which are weared now a days for example. According to Shariah its not allowed to wear tight clothes because this will create attraction and impure toughts...

Oh right. I just asked as there do seem to be some differences in attitude to this dress code. Thanks for the info.

RPGGAMER

Poblachtach wrote:

Non irish muslims , in my opinion and from what i have met, are extremely mannerly and lovely people

THeres lots around UL wehere i live and i think they are great. a bit shy/quiet though. but friendly smiles and all.

Qadri

Hello RPGGamer,

Welcome to the Islam board.
Good to see new people here.

Please kee visiting the Islam board

Kind Regards,

Qadri