Police Brutality

Irishpimpdude

This is a letter writen by my best friend to Mr. McDowell about a insedent that happend the other night, read this and tell me what you think...Names have been removed...

Dear Mr. McDowell,

Excuse the informality of this letter as I just wish to get my story across as quickly and effectively.
I would like to draw your attention to Garda Brutality and Intimidation in the Finglas area of Dublin.
I am going to be completely honest with you to as much of my knowledge.
Last night (28-10-05) while I stood in a field with my friends at a fire the Gardai drove up onto the field and straight towards the group of us.
To be honest one or two of us had alcohol but that wasn’t the reason the two officers came to investigate. I suspect they were having a slow night and wanted to liven it up. Or they could have been intimidated by us—but to be honest none of my friends could be classed as anything anti-social (were just average teenagers bored with nothing to do). Maybe it is a Garda duty to investigate gatherings—maybe we were loitering but what happened, which I will explain now, was disgraceful.

My friend Anon was one who was drinking on the night. He turned 15 last August. He is no ‘scum bag’ but will stand up for himself. He is small in height and in no way intimidating. So here is my story of proceedings that night.

The car (A Ford Mondeo I believe) drove onto the field—as this was happening Darrell threw his last two cans onto the ground and walked over to beside me.
Two officers emerged from the car- One tall, a Dublin lad I do believe. The other was short from outside Dublin.
The small officer walked straight over to my friend and jabbed him in the stomach with his torch and started walking into Darrell forcing him backwards. He was saying to Anon “what did you throw on the ground, what did you throw away”.
Anon was obviously afraid at this point and said “nothing, nothing. I didn’t throw anything on the ground”
The officer backed away and put his torch light on and found the two cans. The officer then said—“you could have told me about those and I would have let you keep them. Its only two cans of beer like”

I then asked an irrelevant question and had a small joke with one of them. Anon then made his one mistake of the night by asking for his two cans back (he said it in a joking way, laughing as he said it---he must have thought that the officer was a decent guy—I guess he was wrong)

The small officer then proceeded to say “you think this is funny, do you” in a threatening manner.
Anon replied “no I don’t think it is funny”
The officer said “why did you lie”
The officer began to walk into Darrell again poking him again


The officer then dragged Anon up to beside the car in front of the high beam car lights—maybe left on purposely to hinder our view of what was happening???—I say this but I could make is what was happening.
The taller officer joined him and the two stood around Anon. One in front, one behind. They started to hit him and push him.
Anon started shouting—“there is no need to hit me”—“There is no need for violence”—this soon turned to “you better stop hitting me with that ****ing bat”. They proceeded to hit him with their batons also. This provoked Darrell to grab one of them and push him away—like any sane human being would do. No one would stand still while being attacked (regardless if it was an officer of ‘the law’).
They dragged him into the car uncuffed while one sat in the back with him exerting pressure on him (holding his head against the headrest of the driver’s seat).
He began shouting for his Ipod, which one of the girls we were with had. The police drove down to us and asked for his Ipod. The driver took it. We could see Anon in the back with his head against the head rest crying or in pain (it was dark in the car). As the car drove off up the field we could actually hear the raps of the officer’s baton hitting Anon.
That is were I end my testimony and Anon’s comes into play.

He told me that the officer accompanying him in the backseat continues to hit him. Anon tried to hit him back—again, who wouldn’t??
He was screaming to the officer in the front for help and he sure got help off him.
He got an elbow in the face from the officer driving along with the words—“there’s some help for ya”.

They brought him to Finglas Gardai Station where he tried to tell the other officers that he was assaulted in the car—they all turned a blind eye. He was locked in a cell for an hour or so until his mother arrived (I had called her the minute the car drove off to inform her).
A report was written up and he was told (if his memory is correct) he was arrested under the CRIMINAL JUSTICE (PUBLIC ORDER) ACT, 1994.
While he was leaving the officer discharging him then tried to say he didn’t bring an Ipod with him. After some time he got it back.

I am writing this letter to you because I think it is absolutely atrocious and disgraceful that the men and women we trust to uphold the law in our little suburb can do things like this and get away with it.
An urban legend is known which says that the Gardai know how to hit people so they don’t leave bruises or marks as evidence—and as it goes Darrell has no marks at all. But I ask you this why would I waste my time writing this letter to you if this didn’t happen. I have nothing against the Gardai I have never had and serious run ins with them.
I also tell you this. There were at least 10 witnesses to this ‘crime’ that was committed by minions of the law.
I regrettably cannot give you any badge number as Anon is hazy about them. But if you are to take any action on this I am sure you can summon the report and get the two officer’s names in that.

This is an every day occurrence in Finglas. The police are looked upon as intimidating and cruel—especially to the innocent. They sure as hell aren’t as tough to the older men who ‘loiter’ the streets.
They abuse their power and get away with it. Ordinary folk are not bothered to report these things happening because they feel it won’t make a difference and no justice will be done. My faith in the justice system shall be tested by the action resulting from this letter.
I urge you to do something on the matter—even if not this matter, then on the wider matter of police brutality.

Yours Sincerely,

Anon

Goodshape

From the frist few sentences alone it seems badly writen tbh.

Excuse the informality of this letter as I just wish to get my story across as quickly and effectively.

I am going to be completely honest with you to as much of my knowledge.

Seems like two half sentences to me.

I suspect they were having a slow night and wanted to liven it up. Or they could have been intimidated by us

No. They were doing there job at this point. Best to leave your unfounded suspicions out of it I think.

maybe left on purposely to hinder our view of what was happening???

More likely so that they could better make out what was happening themselves.



hmm.. in general I'd say you should have someone write it up a bit better. Stick to the facts and leave out your theories and assumptions ('who wouldn't', etc.).

whiskeyman

What amazes me most is that none of yee caught this "brutality" on your camera phones...
Poorly written if you want my honest opinion... and being in a field around a fire is never going to get the right attention, is it?

Irishpimpdude

But we were hardly doing any harm...and i didn't write it

BuffyBot

Straight into the recycle bin, I suspect.

patchouli

Has this letter already been sent?

If not, then don't bother sending it.

A. It is illegal to be out drinking in a public area(as far as I know).
B. The people drinking are way underage.

You don't have a leg to stand on.
Put the whole thing down to experience.

I do however admire the social consciousness behind the letter - don't lose that - there will be a time when it will be needed. This is not the time though.

chillywilly

its happened to me and my friends a number of times, it is something that makes me sick, to think they can do such childish/brutish behaviour and get away with it.

fairplay for writing the letter but my advice would be to find someone with some writing skills(no offence to your friend!)and get them to edit it. As goodshape said, leave out your theories because it wont get you anywhere.

Rb

Irishpimpdude wrote:

Names have been removed...

Irishpimpdude wrote:

Last night (28-10-05) while I stood in a field with my friends at a fire the Gardai drove up onto the field and straight towards the group of us.
To be honest one or two of us had alcohol but that wasn’t the reason the two officers came to investigate. I suspect they were having a slow night and wanted to liven it up.

I'd imagine a fire in a field (when it's not even halloween) would be enough to get the gardaí's attention, as it is against the law(AFAIK).

Irishpimpdude wrote:

My friend Anon

-

Irishpimpdude wrote:

as this was happening Darrell threw his last two cans onto the ground and walked over to beside me.

Good job with the censoring there, Darrell.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

The small officer walked straight over to my friend and jabbed him in the stomach with his torch and started walking into Darrell forcing him backwards. He was saying to Anon “what did you throw on the ground, what did you throw away”.
Anon was obviously afraid at this point and said “nothing, nothing. I didn’t throw anything on the ground”
The officer backed away and put his torch light on and found the two cans. The officer then said—“you could have told me about those and I would have let you keep them. Its only two cans of beer like”

Littering & lying to an officer.tisk tisk.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

I then asked an irrelevant question and had a small joke with one of them. Anon(DARRELL) then made his one mistake of the night by asking for his two cans back

A mistake indeed.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

The small officer then proceeded to say “you think this is funny, do you” in a threatening manner.
Anon replied “no I don’t think it is funny”

Then why were you laughing?

Irishpimpdude wrote:

“you better stop hitting me with that ****ing bat”.

Could easily be interpreted as a threat tbh.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

They proceeded to hit him with their batons also. This provoked Darrell to grab one of them and push him away—like any sane human being would do. No one would stand still while being attacked (regardless if it was an officer of ‘the law’).

You don't try and defend yourself against a guard, pretty common knowledge, people have been charged after doing so believe it or not.(a tv special detiled cases/ incidents before AFAIK)

Irishpimpdude wrote:

As the car drove off up the field we could actually hear the raps of the officer’s baton hitting Anon.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

Anon tried to hit him back—again, who wouldn’t??

Again, a very bad move.

Irishpimpdude wrote:

An urban legend is known which says that the Gardai know how to hit people so they don’t leave bruises or marks as evidence—and as it goes Darrell has no marks at all.

If he was elbowed in the face, hit with a baton, he would have marks tbh. To hit someone in a way that doesn't leave marks you need to hit them with something with as large a space as a telephone book.(or so I've heard)


I can't see anything coming of this.

Irishpimpdude

I don't think it has,and thank you for your honesty.

Guy:Incognito

Irishpimpdude wrote:

But we were hardly doing any harm...and i didn't write it

You were breaking a few laws to start with. I'm sure theres some sort of law against starting fires if and when you choose, underage drinking. Lieing to the police is hardly going to endeer(sp?) you to them. So while this rodney king syle "beating" was taking place in front of the car (where a guy described by you as small, and a 15 year old to boot, managed to push a fully grown man enough to stop him hitting him, while being beaten with batons) you all stood and did what exactly? camly stood and ensured your stories were right?.

They then put him in the back of a car and beat him so loudly that the blows could be heared over the engine of a car (as its driving away from you). Have you ever tried to do anything in the back of a car (no smutty jokes please) let alone swing a baton, and again let alone swing a baton with such force that it can be heard outside the car over the noise of the engine.

Also if two gards are beating a guy with batons in the dark and then in the back of a car, they must be robocops to precision hit as to not leave a mark (not that I believe it is possible in the first place). An elbow in the face is going to leave a mark (see MR A.Shearer, Newcastle, England). Especially one where soneone is driving a car so is hardly going to be able to direct it to a place (clue, there isnt one) that wont leave a mark.

I was hit 3 or 4 times with a baton by a memebr of the guarda Civil (sp?) in Spain and I can tell you I was left with full length baton marks on my legs.

I'm sorry, buit this seems like a (bad) troll.

Sangre

Don't be ridiculous rb_ie of course you can defend yourself against an officer if it isn't resisting arrest.

chillywilly

rb_ie wrote:

I'd imagine a fire in a field (when it's not even halloween) would be enough to get the gardaí's attention, as it is against the law(AFAIK).

-

Good job with the censoring there, Darrell.


Littering & lying to an officer.tisk tisk.


A mistake indeed.


Then why were you laughing?


Could easily be interpreted as a threat tbh.


You don't try and defend yourself against a guard, pretty common knowledge, people have been charged after doing so believe it or not.(a tv special detiled cases/ incidents before AFAIK)




Again, a very bad move.


If he was elbowed in the face, hit with a baton, he would have marks tbh. To hit someone in a way that doesn't leave marks you need to hit them with something with as large a space as a telephone book.(or so I've heard)


I can't see anything coming of this.

dont defend yourself against a guard?!?! What kind of bull**** is that?

Common Knowledge?? Its common knowledge to defend yourself when ANYONE attacks you.

I cannot imagine anyone stand there and get hit without defending themselves, its happened to me and i defended myself(didnt hit them back)through basic instict.

Rb

Sangre wrote:

Don't be ridiculous rb_ie of course you can defend yourself against an officer if it isn't resisting arrest.

Then why was there a full length special on the tv about cases where completely innocent people tried to defend themselves against the gardaí beating them and were brought to court for "assaulting a garda"?

patzer117

Hold on one second, that's not a true account at all. You told the Garda you'd make him eat his torch if he hit you again. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318263&page=2
You threatened him, end of story. Don't go complaining to the Minister for Justice when you are in the wrong, doing something illegal, lying about it and then threatening a Garda. I hope the case goes to court and you and your friends are punished for what you did.

unkel

Pffffth. The Garda treatment of your friend would have been a wee bit tougher had he been known to him

MrJoeSoap

patzer117 wrote:

Hold on one second, that's not a true account at all. You told the Garda you'd make him eat his torch if he hit you again. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318263&page=2

Pwned!

Deadwing

patzer117 wrote:

Hold on one second, that's not a true account at all. You told the Garda you'd make him eat his torch if he hit you again. http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318263&page=2
You threatened him, end of story. Don't go complaining to the Minister for Justice when you are in the wrong, doing something illegal, lying about it and then threatening a Garda. I hope the case goes to court and you and your friends are punished for what you did.

bwah ha ha. WTF did he expect the cops to do?? You dont go and threaten a garda and expect them to laugh it off. Especially if youre an underage drinker, they'll make sure they make an example out of you so you dont do it again. Everyone knows the cops arent just gonna ruffle your hair and tell ya 'be on your way, you little scamp!'. I dont agree with it, but theres nothing can be done about it..they'll give you a few slaps until you learn to keep your mouth shut next time.

ferdi

fact is, the guard hit the younfella with the tourch first - he cant do that.

whiskeyman

ferdi wrote:

fact is, the guard hit the younfella with the tourch first - he cant do that.

fact is, there's no proof.... and fact is, I wouldnt believe this guy as his account of this incident differs in another post.

lodgepole

It was a badly written letter which is a shame because it could have been used to quite good effect. Laws were being broken and the police are well within their rights to investigate and to arrest if required. They are not allowed to use undue force, particularly against a minor. Even when provoked. That's the most important part. A trained member of the Gardai is never in any danger from a fifteen year old unless the fifteen year old has a weapon. Any force used beyond that required to get the person into the police car is illegal. The person in question wouldn't have received a permanent record, his parents should have lodged a formal complaint.

Once eighteen when you make formal complaints against the Gardai they throw as many charges as they can think of at you to dissuade you from following through. A friend of mine was badly beaten and suffered serious bruising to his face with photographic evidence but faced career altering charges had he gone through with the complaint. I can't comment on the above case but in his case I can say that there no misconduct on his part other than being drunk. Even when sober he is a weakling.

It is in the interests of the Gardai that people bring things like this to light. The good ones are being painted with a bad brush when they allow it to happen.

rb_ie wrote:

Then why was there a full length special on the tv about cases where completely innocent people tried to defend themselves against the gardaí beating them and were brought to court for "assaulting a garda"?

An innocent person shouldn't have to defend themselves against a Garda. If they do have to defend themselves then the Gardai are in the wrong. The fact that innocent people are being charged unduly as a result of Garda misconduct isn't reason enough to let it take place.

the_syco

Sorry if I misread it, but weren't a group of underage teenagers drinking (against the law) in a field (also against the law), around an open fire(also against the law). Oh, and unless you owned the field, you were trespassing (also against the law).

By admitting to drinking, traspassing, etc, I'd be surprised if the Gardai didn't arrest the writer of the letter for being so stupid to write a letter to the Gardai detailing how they broke the law, and how up to 10 other people may have been breaking the law.

So this happes alot? The bit about the drinking around the fires, or about the Gardai trying to ensure that it doesn't go on unhindered?

MrJoeSoap

the_syco wrote:

Sorry if I misread it, but weren't a group of underage teenagers drinking (against the law) in a field (also against the law), around an open fire(also against the law). Oh, and unless you owned the field, you were trespassing (also against the law).

By admitting to drinking, traspassing, etc, I'd be surprised if the Gardai didn't arrest the writer of the letter for being so stupid to write a letter to the Gardai detailing how they broke the law, and how up to 10 other people may have been breaking the law.

So this happes alot? The bit about the drinking around the fires, or about the Gardai trying to ensure that it doesn't go on unhindered?

Don't forget the OP threatened to make the Garda "eat" his torch.

robinph

the_syco wrote:

Sorry if I misread it, but weren't a group of underage teenagers drinking (against the law) in a field (also against the law), around an open fire(also against the law). Oh, and unless you owned the field, you were trespassing (also against the law).

By admitting to drinking, traspassing, etc, I'd be surprised if the Gardai didn't arrest the writer of the letter for being so stupid to write a letter to the Gardai detailing how they broke the law, and how up to 10 other people may have been breaking the law.

So this happes alot? The bit about the drinking around the fires, or about the Gardai trying to ensure that it doesn't go on unhindered?

But that still does not make hitting the people that were breaking thoses laws legal though does it?

MrJoeSoap

robinph wrote:

But that still does not make hitting the people that were breaking thoses laws legal though does it?

Call me a cynic here, but if he admits (albeit in another thread) to telling the Garda he would make him "eat" his torch, I seriously doubt he didn't resist arrest. Also, by not admitting the letter in the original post was about himself, he has completely opened himself up to this thread for questioning and skepticism.

There is usually more than meets the eye.

Dave!

This is the stupidest story I've ever heard. Grow up, you and your mates deserved a beating for (a) breaking the law, and (b) trying to scare the Garda with your 'tough talk'...

robinph

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Call me a cynic here, but if he admits (albeit in another thread) to telling the Garda he would make him "eat" his torch, I seriously doubt he didn't resist arrest. Also, by not admitting the letter in the original post was about himself, he has completely opened himself up to this thread for questioning and skepticism.

There is usually more than meets the eye.

When getting prodded with a maglight after having a few beers I'd expect most people to request that whoever was doing that to stop it, and not nessecarilly in the most polite manner, but that hardly counts as resisting arrest. If your resisting arrest then it would take a bit more force to 'pursuade' you into the back of the car and I'd then expect them to be using handcuffs and I saw no mention of that.

Canis Lupus

robinph wrote:

But that still does not make hitting the people that were breaking thoses laws legal though does it?

Depends on whether or not you beleive the lad in the first place.

My own initial thought is I don't believe a word of that letter.

We were just minding our own business and along came two gardai who beat my friend up.

Not saying it can't happen but I've met plain unpleasant gardai in my time but never ones that hit people nor heard any rumours to that effect.

My own stereotypical imagined version of events involves smart arsed comments from the lad trying to be brave in front of his friends perhaps after the gardai asked him what he had dropped and then finds himself being arrested and he probably struggled. After they had gone you 15 year olds get together and worked each other up about how the gardai can't do that blah blah blah blah.

Perhaps next time the OP will think twice about lighting a fire when he goes off knacker drinking in a field, it makes it a bit obvious that you are there.

(I'm not going to criticise the other facts like the drinking etc cos we have all done that).

MrJoeSoap

robinph wrote:

When getting prodded with a maglight after having a few beers I'd expect most people to request that whoever was doing that to stop it, and not nessecarilly in the most polite manner, but that hardly counts as resisting arrest. If your resisting arrest then it would take a bit more force to 'pursuade' you into the back of the car and I'd then expect them to be using handcuffs and I saw no mention of that.

I never said telling the Gard he would make him "eat" his torch was resisting arrest, I said that if he is prepared to speak in such a manner to a police officer then there is probably much more to his story than meets the eye (e.g. - resisting arrest).

Jimi-Spandex

Threatening to make the garda to eat his torch is assault on a police officer. The actual threat as opposed to the action is the assault, so according to yourself, you are guilty of that already, in addition to underage drinking (Your account of the "facts" is questionable due to you being both a minor and consuming alcohol illegally at the time in question).

You can send that badly written letter to Mr McDowell if you want but the only way he'll read it is if he wants to laugh at it.

In summation, tough shít, you were breaking the law. You assaulted a police officer. If you can't stand the heat, don't be a twat. What did you expect after threating an officer?

AARRRGH

Yeah, as the above people said! You were asking for trouble and don't really have a case.

I do agree though that a big guard hitting a 15 year old is pathetic though.

ferdi

whiskeyman wrote:

fact is, there's no proof.... and fact is, I wouldnt believe this guy as his account of this incident differs in another post.

fact is, **** off.

that made me feel like a big man.

MrJoeSoap

ferdi wrote:

fact is, **** off.

that made me feel like a big man.

Easy now.

Canis Lupus

ferdi wrote:

fact is, **** off.

that made me feel like a big man.

Tough weekend? Or are you Darrell?

Sangre

rb_ie wrote:

Then why was there a full length special on the tv about cases where completely innocent people tried to defend themselves against the gardaí beating them and were brought to court for "assaulting a garda"?

Just because you're innocent doesn't mean you can resist arrest.

whiskeyman

ferdi wrote:

fact is, **** off.

that made me feel like a big man.

been prodded by a maglite yourself recently?

robinph

Sangre wrote:

Just because you're innocent doesn't mean you can resist arrest.

Can a 15 year old even be arrested, and especially not for something as minor as having a drink and talking back to an officer? Isn't it just something like being held for their own protection until their parent or guardian turns up, but doesn't actually count as an arrest.

Jimi-Spandex

robinph wrote:

Can a 15 year old even be arrested, and especially not for something as minor as having a drink and talking back to an officer? Isn't it just something like being held for their own protection until their parent or guardian turns up, but doesn't actually count as an arrest.

Yes, a 15 year old can be arrested. It does depend on the severity of the act but it is usually a discretionary matter whether the Garda actually arrests them (i.e. brings them to a station) or just gets their details and take it from there. This would really be a waste of resources due to the paper work involved so it's usually better to just warn them on the spot.

I know people who've gotten worse than the OP for a lot less. Two people I know were beaten and threatened by the Gardai on their way home from a club one night. Completely out of the blue, they didn't even say anything to them before they did anything, just ran at them, rugby style tackle and a few truncheon whacks. Turns out they were looking for some scumbags who had done something. Weird, eh?

Bard

I'm sure McDowell will be replying to you any day now.

And sending you a big compensation package.

:rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

If there are ten witnesses - can't they get together and go to the evening herald or the like? After all it is hard to dispute the accounts of ten people.

Somehow I don't think we'll be seeing that story in the press any time soon.

whiskeyman

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

After all it is hard to dispute the accounts of ten people.

Unless they are all mates who were drinking in the field at the fire also.

Just get a spokesperson from the Moscow Police to tell your story and the SIndo will probably publish it....

Dampsquid

My friend Anon was one who was drinking on the night.

Yours Sincerely,

Anon

Has Anon got a friend called Anon? Or is he just confused.

Irishpimpdude, this is your profile:

Date of Birth:
August 25, 1980
Age:
25
History:
My Sack!
Real Name:
Darrell
Biography:
Im not Gay, Thats all you need to know!
Location:
Dublin
Interests:
Stripping
Occupation:
Stripper

I presume your darrell... 25 and hanging out and drinking with 15 year old??? You give a different age on the other thread about underage drinking

This must be a troll.

Mr.Nice Guy

If you tell a Garda you're going to make him "eat" his torch you can expect a beating. If you threaten a Garda you haven't really got a leg to stand on. (literally)

KdjaCL

15 year olds drinking by a fire in Finglas......

Wow stereotypes ahoy......

Only battered him as they a)prolly knew him and his age meaning he couldnt be charged. b) were bored.

Moral of story dont be underage drinking in a field in Finglas.


kdjac

stevenmu

Tbh anyone drinking in a field by a fire, doesn't deserve a beating by the gardai, just because the justice system won't do f all, doesn't give them the right to start handing out 'justice' themselves. And telling a garda you're going to make him eat his torch is perfectly justifiable when he's hitting you with it.

Deadwing

Dampsquid wrote:

Has Anon got a friend called Anon? Or is he just confused.

Irishpimpdude, this is your profile:


I presume your darrell... 25 and hanging out and drinking with 15 year old??? You give a different age on the other thread about underage drinking

This must be a troll.

http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/owned/owned-puddle.jpg

MrJoeSoap

I'm eagerly awaiting the "pimps" response.

gaye doyle

how about you go out of your house to tell neighbours to turn down noise
and you end up with police abuse

Czarcasm

Thanks OP for restoring my faith in the Gardai. For a while there I was beginning to think they couldn't do their job properly.

El Weirdo

Thread is over 7 years old.

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