Argos €3 supplement on elec products

Shinto

Just bought a stud detector from Argos (the gadgets you use to detect cables and pipes in walls before you start drilling) which was advertised as €15.98 in the catalogue.

Then it wasnt until i was at the till that i was informed id have to pay an extra €3 for the producer recycling fee. I remember that legislation was brought in a few weeks ago which was fine.

But Argos were unethical in that they didnt advertise it (i didnt see any posters in the shop or any info in the catalogue) and i only found out at the till (when its embarrasing to cancel a transaction for a mere 3 Euro). Anyway, that 3 Euro on top of the original 16 euro is a 20% increase, way above the tax which was placed on the producers. So im pissed off at Argos.

netwhizkid

Shinto wrote:

But Argos were unethical in that they didnt advertise it (i didnt see any posters in the shop or any info in the catalogue) and i only found out at the till (when its embarrasing to cancel a transaction for a mere 3 Euro). Anyway, that 3 Euro on top of the original 16 euro is a 20% increase, way above the tax which was placed on the producers. So im pissed off at Argos.

You were stung illegally, First of the WEE is illegal and states that all financial costs of the WEE must be borne by the producer ie. Black & Decker etc. Argos as far as i know don't produce any electronics only a load of television spam. This was issued by the Irish government and it states that the charges (although illegal) must be advertised. It is giving the shops the opportunity to put up prices by up to €40 on fridges and less for smaller items like yourself. This is the directive by the EU See article 20. print that and the other link given above and take it with you the next time you buy electronics and tell them to shove their EMC, PRF or whatever they call it where the sun don't shine. See this post by bone collector and read the full thread here It is another stealth tax approved by this corrupt government and they allowing retailers to rip-off the country. Don't pay it, you will find some where to buy whatever you need without paying it or try the internet. I am looking forward to having to buy an electric kettle, (my first electronic item since it came in, as i said earlier print off the page with article 20 and the attachment in bone collectors thread.

Best of luck

Guy:Incognito

netwhizkid wrote:

You were stung illegally, First of the WEE is illegal and states that all financial costs of the WEE must be borne by the producer ie. Black & Decker etc. Argos as far as i know don't produce any electronics only a load of television spam. This was issued by the Irish government and it states that the charges (although illegal) must be advertised. It is giving the shops the opportunity to put up prices by up to €40 on fridges and less for smaller items like yourself. This is the directive by the EU See article 20. print that and the other link given above and take it with you the next time you buy electronics and tell them to shove their EMC, PRF or whatever they call it where the sun don't shine. See this post by bone collector and read the full thread here It is another stealth tax approved by this corrupt government and they allowing retailers to rip-off the country. Don't pay it, you will find some where to buy whatever you need without paying it or try the internet. I am looking forward to having to buy an electric kettle, (my first electronic item since it came in, as i said earlier print off the page with article 20 and the attachment in bone collectors thread.

Best of luck

Again, as said in the other thread, how is a price clearly printed on leaflets/catalogues/ price tickets instore a "stealth tax"?

Argos (and all other stores selling electrical goods) are charged by their supplyers, so why should they take on the cost.

You pay €20 on a large tv, this covers the cost of rycycling. Ring a recycling place and ask them how much they will charge you to take your tv and recycle it.

Sarsfield

netwhizkid wrote:

I am looking forward to having to buy an electric kettle, (my first electronic item since it came in, as i said earlier print off the page with article 20 and the attachment in bone collectors thread.

There are only 19 articles in the document you refer to.

Paragraph 20 (or whatever it's called) simply states that you can return an item free of charge.

When you go to buy your new kettle you can hand them an old broken one. They must take it and you will not pay extra. That's all. I'm sure this has already been explained to you.

To the OP, I'm sure Argos is obliged to advertise the WEEE charge. Was there a poster on the wall anywhere mentioning WEEE? Basically a WEEE price-list? That's probably all they need to do. The Government document that netwhizkid linked to is posted in a lot of shops. Sadly all electrical&electronic tools incur a €3 charge.

BrianD

But the price in the catalogue should have been inclusive of the WEEE charge and in this respect the store hasn't complied with the regulations.

Netwhizkid I'm not sure that your arguement has legs. Producers are required to take back redundent products for recycling. Of course they are going to pass this charge back to the consumer and rightly so. By standardising the charges it means that producers can't vary the cost of recovery at the expense of the consumer. You really didn't expect manufacturers to subsidise the recycling of the goods you consume?????

Having said that I would be interested to know how the WEEE money collected by retailers goes back along the chain of distribution. Secondly, is VAT charged on the WEEE?

Let us know how you get on with the purchase of your electric kettle!

Guy:Incognito

BrianD wrote:

But the price in the catalogue should have been inclusive of the WEEE charge and in this respect the store hasn't complied with the regulations.

Their catalogues are a few months old, I'd assume they have leeway till the next one is printed/released.

Shinto

Tis true about the catalogues being a few weeks old, too old to have info about the new legislation.

It is possible that Argos had some in-store poster advertising their application of the new legislation, but i didnt see it when i bought the Stud Detector. Of course, i didnt expect to see one so i could have walked right past it unaware.

I dont know much about the legal aspect of all this, but i cant help but be very wary of Retailers and their behaviour (in this country especially).

BrianD

Well I deal with a trade electrical company and they have been flagging it for months before it was introduced. Given it is a Europe wide initiative, ARgos should have been prepared.

Eoin

You should have a look at some older threads in this forum, I think this has come up before.

Here is some more info.

Relevant text:

Price Display

Prices quoted and displayed to purchasers for any electrical or electronic equipment must include the vEMCs. From the 13th February 2006 the price of the product including VAT (exclusive of the EMC) and the EMC must be displayed separately on the shelf edge label or on the item itself.

From 13th August 2005 retailers must also specify what this cost is for on any invoice, receipt or docket. They do this by stating that this is a ‘Producer Recycling Fund (amount of environmental management cost)’. A notice must be clearly visible where the electrical items are sold stating that ‘The prices of these items include contributions to a producer recycling fund to ensure that waste electrical and electronic equipment is collected and recycled in a responsible manner’.

Nightwish

dunno which Argos store you were in but in the Argos where I work there are 6 posters and theres booklets to take away, which are located at every till. Whereas I personally do not agree with the WEEE charge, I just want to point out that there are notices around the shop about it.

gerrycollins

to all above the WEEE charge that is put on electrical items is for the future recycling of that product ie i have a fridge which i bought last year,no WEEE charge included so when i wish to dispose of it cause it is broken i can dump it in a field up the mountains(which i would never do btw) because to dispose of it in a recycling facility will cost me €X but next year when i buy a new fridge it will include a WEEE charge(this charge is the equivalent to the disposal charge relative to the size of the item)it is now FREE for me to dispose of the item in a legal disposal site (or point of purchase) from where it will be collected and recycled by the producers of the item. FREE = already paid for. The whole idea is to pay for the disposal and recycling of the electrical item at the point of purchase not the point of disposal otherwise the mountain side would look like a waste disposal site. The poluter pays system.

As per the displaying of the WEEE charge it is simple it has to be displayed at point of purchase or with displays but most places will put it at the tills ie point of purchase. Also retailers are required to display the price with the equivalent WEEE charge included or excluded but the customer has to be informed which method the retailer is using

MorningStar

BrianD wrote:

Well I deal with a trade electrical company and they have been flagging it for months before it was introduced. Given it is a Europe wide initiative, ARgos should have been prepared.

I think they should have known but the catalogue printing has a longish lead time so I can see the problem with Argos catalogues. Even though it is Europe wide how it is done is unique to each country so that would not of helped Argos.

Paddyo

Originally Posted by BrianD
Well I deal with a trade electrical company and they have been flagging it for months before it was introduced. Given it is a Europe wide initiative, ARgos should have been prepared.

The prices for the EMC charges were not available until a few days before the 13th of August so Argos could not have known what the pricing was going to be.

Someone asked it there is vat on the EMC. The answer is Yes - 21% is included in the charge.

Paddyo

Nightwish

exactly, how could Argos have known? the catalogues are prepared a year in advance.

iguana

I think Ireland is the only country in the EU which has allowed the charge to be passed to the consumer in this way. My family is boycotting electrical goods in any store that passes it on. They either buy it elsewhere or they will pick them up in the UK when they visit me.

BrianD

iguana wrote:

I think Ireland is the only country in the EU which has allowed the charge to be passed to the consumer in this way. My family is boycotting electrical goods in any store that passes it on. They either buy it elsewhere or they will pick them up in the UK when they visit me.

But it is going to be passed on everywhere! The problem is in Ireland is that the prices shown are often not inclusive of the weee charge. It should be like VAT. Don't think for a moment that manufacturers in other EU countries are happily subsidising recycling/disposal on behalf of their customers!

parsi

I feel sorry for Argos - the wee charges came in just after their new catalogue. However I was charged eur5 for a DVD recorder when their manual states its only eur2. So I have to go back and contest it, I only noticed it today when buying something else and I chatted with the manager who basically said that the whole thing was a bit of a mess and run from the UK as well (then again thats often an excuse..).

Still they have leaflets around and the Christmas catalogue has wee prices and the ring-and-reserve mentions it as well.

parsi

netwhizkid wrote:

You were stung illegally, First of the WEE is illegal and states that all financial costs of the WEE must be borne by the producer ie. Black & Decker etc.

Any chance of a bit of clarity in this please ? If WEE is illegal then it doesn't matter a figleaf what it states about who should bear the financial costs.

Sometimes you seem to spout sh1te ....

Enii

Shinto wrote:

i only found out at the till (when its embarrasing to cancel a transaction for a mere 3 Euro).

I wouldn't be embarrassed to cancel a transaction for 3 euro.

netwhizkid

parsi wrote:

Any chance of a bit of clarity in this please ? If WEE is illegal then it doesn't matter a figleaf what it states about who should bear the financial costs.

Sometimes you seem to spout sh1te ....

Yes the WEE charges are illegal, it states in the text of the EU document that the financial costs must be bourne by the producer so unless you or i actually produce electronics, I don't, do you? then you shouldn't have to pay an extra penny to the rip-off merchants. Members of my family recently purchased electronics and upon producing the literature, i have linked to above, the retailer decided not to charge the €5 PRF charge. Don't get ripped-ff people.

Oh yes parsi thank you for your comment too btw, that is considered a personal attack and could lead to trouble, however i choose not to pursue the issue any further.

parsi

Ah now I see what you mean - first off you stated that WEE is illegal. Now you have been clarified that it's the charging of the consumer that is illegal.

Of course at the end of the day the producer can just go and put up his price anyway and we will still pay for it. As the end users all costs will eventually get pushed down to us. Its like making the banks pay for security van escorts - if they do so they will just tweak their charges and we'll pay for it either way.

I don't know about you but when I buy something I don't have anyone to pass the costs on to so whether Argos charges me a flat fee of eur3 on top or justs adds it into the price I'll still end up paying the same amount.

iguana

BrianD wrote:

But it is going to be passed on everywhere! The problem is in Ireland is that the prices shown are often not inclusive of the weee charge. It should be like VAT. Don't think for a moment that manufacturers in other EU countries are happily subsidising recycling/disposal on behalf of their customers!

Argos in the UK can't pass it on just yet as their catalogue was printed before this came in and it is illegal for them to pass it on as they are doing in Ireland. So they have to sell it at the catalougue price, without this addition. As Argos can't increase their prices, their competitors aren't likely to either. Most items are very slightly cheaper here anyway.

I've also heard that it will be much more strict here. Bearing in mind that we already pay for this service as part of our council tax. If you have a washing machine, for example, that you want to get rid of. You put it on the curb and call the council to come get it. They also do a blitz of each area a few times a year to give households a chance to get rid of whatever broken electronics they have stuffed in the back of some cupboard.

MorningStar

iguana wrote:

Argos in the UK can't pass it on just yet as their catalogue was printed before this came in and it is illegal for them to pass it on as they are doing in Ireland.

I think it is more to do with the fact that the UK have yet to enforce the directive in anyway. THe WEE charge is not Argos specific and is actually country specific.

BrianD

iguana wrote:

I've also heard that it will be much more strict here. Bearing in mind that we already pay for this service as part of our council tax. If you have a washing machine, for example, that you want to get rid of. You put it on the curb and call the council to come get it. They also do a blitz of each area a few times a year to give households a chance to get rid of whatever broken electronics they have stuffed in the back of some cupboard.

The recycling of electrical goods is not included in any waste charges paid here. When you put the washing machine out it ends up in a landfill.

iguana

BrianD wrote:

The recycling of electrical goods is not included in any waste charges paid here. When you put the washing machine out it ends up in a landfill.

I'm talking about the UK, in Haringey it is part of the council's recycling programme. Machines are tested and those that still work or which can be repaired are re-homed and the rest are used for parts and recycled.

The Council works with ReStore Community Projects, a charity based in Tottenham Hale.
ReStore will come and collect your reusable and unwanted furniture and kitchen items, like cookers and fridges.
They then pass the items on to previously homeless people or other people in need. All white goods are tested and guaranteed.
Haringey also recycles a broader range of materials such as electrical goods, domestic appliances, car batteries, motor oil, untreated wood, mobile phones and printer cartridges.

MorningStar wrote:

THe WEE charge is not Argos specific and is actually country specific.

I know that, but in Ireland Argos have been allowed to turn it into an add on payment as they had printed their catalogue before introducing the payment. In the UK they have not been allowed to do this and must sell their goods at original catalogue price, therefore they are taking on the cost, not the consumer. In addition as many stores advertise their goods as "cheaper than Argos" they too are unable to increase their sales price by this cost.

techie_2006

I was gonna bring this subject up but as it's here...:D

I bought a pair of Panasonic ear phones this morning €6.99 and was charged €1 supplement, now I was in there yesterday and bought a optical mouse for €9.99 and wasn't charged a supplement. And it was the same person who served me at the till both times.

What's that all about?

philologos

its wierd if you ask me

Nightwish

techie_2006 wrote:

I was gonna bring this subject up but as it's here...:D

I bought a pair of Panasonic ear phones this morning €6.99 and was charged €1 supplement, now I was in there yesterday and bought a optical mouse for €9.99 and wasn't charged a supplement. And it was the same person who served me at the till both times.

What's that all about?

read the booklet thats printed up outlining what products get charged the WEEE supplement.

as I said before, I dont agree with this charge personally, but when the new catalogue comes out after Xmas, the WEEE charge will be factored into the price, just at the moment its a bit of a pain adding on the price at the till. Its just like a few years back, when VAT was increased from 20% to 21% in the budget, a month after the catalogue was launched, and the prices displayed were wrong, but there was plenty of in-store advertising and leaflets advertising the matter, like now.

Danno

WEEE is charged to retaillers by producer companies. Retaillers are obliged to collect old items and return them to recycling facilities - this extra work load is undertook without any financial assistance from the Govt/EU etc...

Retaillers make nothing from this and usually get a load of giving out from angry customers.

Crap system.

lomb

i think pc stuff is exempt as are mobile phones. probably because someone reakoned they could be shipped to ethoipia at end of life and no need to be recycled.its a crazy levy especially on small stuff, my advice is buy over the web and screw the wee

MorningStar

lomb wrote:

i think pc stuff is exempt as are mobile phones. probably because someone reakoned they could be shipped to ethoipia at end of life and no need to be recycled.its a crazy levy especially on small stuff, my advice is buy over the web and screw the wee

If you don't know maybe you shouldn't speculate becasue you will get it wrong. The computer manufactures recycle their own goods as do the mobile phone producers.

iguana wrote:

In the UK they have not been allowed to do this and must sell their goods at original catalogue price, therefore they are taking on the cost, not the consumer.

U don't know where you go t that but I am pretty sure it is not true. Catalogues can have corrective suplements added. If it is different post up the legal terms. Price labeling mistakes are very costly in the UK but what people are stating as fact is unreasonable. The WEE tax is not stoped becasue Argos couldn't handle it but the fact the UK government didn't act quickly.

Paddyo

when the new catalogue comes out after Xmas, the WEEE charge will be factored into the price

The charge cannot be factored into the price - it must be shown separately.

Paddyo

Nightwish

Paddyo wrote:

The charge cannot be factored into the price - it must be shown separately.

Paddyo

if you've seen the Xmas catalogue, you'll know what I mean. For example, a hair straightener is in the Xmas flyer at 34.99, then below that in smaller print it states catalogue price 31.99 + 3.00 WEEE charge.

Paddyo

Fair enough Nightwish - I have not seen the catalogue

Paddyo

Hagar

I have a picture in my mind of a woman bringing an 18" knobbly dildo back to Ann Summers for recycling.

Paddyo

Retaillers make nothing from this and usually get a load of giving out from angry customers.

Retailers are charged one price by their supplier and they charge a higher price. This is to compensate then for the storage and transport of the returned goods. The difference is 20%

Paddyo

Nightwish

thats true, that the retailer must be recompensed in some way for the extra work, but the feedback we're getting at the tills is "But what if i recycle this myself? then I shouldnt have to pay the charge"

Eoin

Nightwish wrote:

the feedback we're getting at the tills is "But what if i recycle this myself? then I shouldnt have to pay the charge"

And then the item is thrown in the bin, and the consumer saves a couple of quid...

Nightwish

eoin_s wrote:

And then the item is thrown in the bin, and the consumer saves a couple of quid...

exactly, how do I argue with that

Guy:Incognito

eoin_s wrote:

And then the item is thrown in the bin, and the consumer saves a couple of quid...

Which is exactly why it's cmpulsary. Once again the lazy cost us all money.