Flopped set against an overbet checkraise

RoundTower

In the Fitz €20 rebuy tourney, shortly into the freezeout period. Blinds 100-200. I have won one hand and have about 6500 in chips, about average or slightly above. I pick up 33 in the cutoff. Two players limp and I limp. The button raises to 500. He has a big stack of about 11500, and this is the first time in maybe 20 hands I have seen him raise. I haven't been paying attention, or possibly I joined the game a bit late, but I don't know how he got his stack. He seems like a new inexperienced player who doesn't have a clue what he is doing, but he is very nervous as he raises. He thinks he has a big hand, but for all I know he would think ATs is a big hand.

Everybody calls, including the blinds, and I call. There is 3000 in the pot. The flop comes 367, no suits. Everybody checks, and I check. The button bets 500. The SB folds and the BB quickly raises all in for about 5500. He seems to have some idea what he is doing, has been tight enough from what I've seen, but probably also inexperienced.

It is folded round to me. What should I do?

What if I had 66?

The Troll

RoundTower wrote:

What if I had 66?

Even with the absence of a read, i'd find it hard to believe that they were betting with 45. personally i'd play the hand the exact same with 66 as i would with 33. I'd call. Could be someone with 89, 45, 58, anything really. Makybe someone has made top set. Unlucky for you if they have.

CoD

My first reaction was the BB called the small raise and made a str8 with 45s.
But then I would expect him to try to get you involved as well and call.

He like you probably sees the raiser as inexperianced and sees he probably had 2 high cards and takes it. He could have a OESD and is pushing to pick up the chips here, but doesnt mind a call.

I def. think the str8 would get milked tho. So I'm pushing here.

bmc

The hands that beat you are 4,5 6,6 and 7,7...

If they're playing hands like 4,5 then they're playing 6,7 7,8 overpairs and all sorts.

Call! If he's playing any of the first three consider it unlucky.

I suspect an overpair or he's trying to push the nervous guy (who's probably missed) off his hand.

Norwich Fan Rob

if u are thinking about folding this, why did u play the 33 in the first place, what are u hoping to flop, quads !!!!

Norwich Fan Rob

The button bet 500 into a pot of over 2k, a very weak bet, he has AJ or similar, and has missed imo, and the other guy has made a big overbet, maybe with the like of TT to protect his hand imo, no way 45, 66, or 77 plays the hand like either of these 2 guys, u are facing a 2 outer at worst

RoundTower

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

if u are thinking about folding this, why did u play the 33 in the first place, what are u hoping to flop, quads !!!!

Well, I was hoping to flop a set of 3s when everyone else had a worse hand and somebody else, most likely the original raiser, was willing to pay me off for my whole stack.

Do you really think the checkraiser can have TT or similar? I would expect him to lead out or check fold with TT.

DapperGent

I don't think you can be certain you're behind here just from the big bet and you'd need to be absolutely certain to fold. He could be pouncing on what he percieves as an autobet from the preflop raiser. He could have two pair or and over pair or anything really. If he has a straight you can always suck out on him you're not that far behind with.

If you've been set-oversetted you're going to lose all your chips which is the way things should be when you don't have 100 BBs. Or when you're not playing Omaha.

As has been said if you're not prepared to go broke here don't limp with 33 when most of the table has only 20-30 BBs. There are just far too many hands that will bet this way that you're ahead of.

ollyk1

You flat call, and our friend on the button calls with KK/AA (he was slowplaying and didn't want to lose "customers" with a big button bet). You go all-in for your remaining chips and the button calls on the ragged turn.

BB turns over 57o for a mistimed steal with a gutshot, button turns over his aces with a smile and you wipe the smile of his face until the river that is....


Alternatively it's Rita in the BB and she has 77 and what were you doing calling???:eek:

padser

I havnt got the exact odds. But as far as i know the odds of hitting a house or quads from trebs on the flop is about 32%. (7 outs to hit on the turn, 8 on the river). So against 45 you are 2-1 dog. I cant see how you can fold really.

Hectorjelly

The fact that you posted it means you probably lost to a higher set, but i still think you need to call here. Why did you check when it was to you?

Ste05

RoundTower wrote:

I would expect him to lead out or check fold with TT.

Check fold TT on this board????? I think not, especially if, as you say, he was inexperienced!

I think this is a fairly easy call, you couldn't have hoped for a better flop really, except maybe for the flop to have an A instead of that 7, but if he has higher trips good luck to him, I pay him off.......

It looks like a str8 draw and an over pair protecting....

Lafortezza

I think you have to get your chips in.
67s or an overpair for the BB is very possible, nobody else has shown any interest on the flop apart from the pre-flop raiser who put out a piddly AK continuation bet when it was checked to him.

Push all-in and hope the button has a big overpair and comes along for the ride.

careca

Concensus is great. I agree with all, especially Norwich_Fan. you played to hit you set and did, so get your chips in. The only worry i would have is a bigger set, then you are almost drawing dead. If someone has a str8 you still have outs.

As for your point of playing 33 to hit a set but hoping others don't hit their hand, there aren't too many flops that could guarantee that. If a big card arrives would you not fear someone has that pair in their hand.

Marq

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

if u are thinking about folding this, why did u play the 33 in the first place, what are u hoping to flop, quads !!!!

This comment is idiotic. Bad players limp to hit their set and once they've hit their set they shovel in their chips and there ends their thinking for the hand. Good players limp to hit their set, and then to evaluate because of the betting and actions of their opponents whether or not their set is the best hand. It usually is, but not always, and I don't think it's enough to say that if he runs into a higher set then that's just tough luck if he feels he could have gotten away from it. If Roundtower is 90% sure that his opponent would only make this raise with the flopped straight or a higher set, then he should fold. If he's up against a higher set he has one out, and if he's up against a straight he can improve but isn't being given the odds to do so.

However, I don't think that you can be anywhere near 90% sure here. You have no solid reads on the players involved and the general impressions of them that you have given suggest that they are the sort that probably think Ten-Ten is the nuts on this board. I've played this tournament enough to know that people will push on overpairs and even straight draws enough times to make folding your set here heavily -EV. I wouldn't be surprised if after welling up for 2 minutes you called and te guy turned over A7 offsuit.

I also wonder why you checked your set on the flop. Funnily enough if you had bet it would have made your subsequent decision a lot easier.

RoundTower

I was almost certain when it was to me that the button had AA and would bet. I felt there was no reason to bet if I could get him to bet and hopefully have a caller behind him.

In the actual hand I had 66 and I had to call, but I felt about 80% sure that the BB had also flopped a set. I changed my hand to 33 so we could have something to debate. In fact the BB had 99 and the button had AA and I tripled up.

I think the other two players in the hand played it horribly, and I played it fine. Of course checking on the flop is slightly higher-risk, and as it turns out if I had bet I was probably getting tripled up anyway. Is it really so much of a worse play?

Ste05

Checking was fine here IMHO, and my decision wouldn't have changed if I had 33 or 66 here.