Problem with electrician

chabsey

We've recently had our house rewired as part of the process of doing it up. The electrician we chose is a nice guy who quoted us a good price which we were happy to go with as he'd be recommended to us.

Apart from him taking about twice as long as he was supposed to we were happy with his wiring, seemed good and he was pleasant to deal with. However, yesterday he plastered over the channels he had cut to sink the wiring into and it's one of the worst botch jobs I've seen in terms of plastering. It's raised everywhere and in some places the conduiting is actually visible in the plaster.

He admitted as he left that he was no plasterer and that the job he'd done wasn't that good. I wasn't around when he said this. Honestly I'd have been better off doing it myself. I called him today to complain and his reply is that he's not a plasterer and that no electrician will plaster after they've finished, they'll generally leave the channels cut and you have to hire a plasterer to finish.

I'm not au fait with how electricians work so I don't know if this is crap or not. He was hired to 'rewire the house' plastering was never raised as a problem or an issue or even mentioned at all, he never said 'I'm crap at plastering but will plaster if you want, it was just never mentioned. In my ignorance I presumed it was part of the job, was I wrong?

Do I have any come back?

garyh3

Sorry have to answer this....

Im not in any of the trades but I do my bit of DIY..... I have major problems with some of the people we have hired.... Tiler just wanted to slap on the tiles and get out with his money.... Didnt put back any of the units.... He's just a tiler and thats what he did........ Took a day to clean all the grout slopped everywhere....

Plumber .... Put back in the units and all loose + he had rounded off the screws... Left the side of the bath off as it was'nt his job but a carpenter ... (He was the original guy who put the bath in and didnt allow the extra gap for floor tiling so that the side of the bath would fit.) Had to cut the side of the bath to get it to fit....

So TBO I would just do it youself... Its not a difficult job as you know.. I think he wanted his money so he could get to the next job....

If he didnt want to do the plaster then he should have said.... instead of doing a crap job....

The one thing you could do is not recommend this guy... The market will turn around and there will be a time when plumbers, tilers, carpenters etc will need our trade and will hopefully respect work there doing + they might go that extra mile and finish the job you expected.

I know there are a lot of good people Im just saying thet everyone has good and bad stories....

The rest of the guys we used.... were really good and would recommend to anyone...

Rant over...

Garyh3

mad m

@chabsey

Well as far as I know it isnt an electricians job to patch up work after himself,I personally have never seen one do this unless it was stated before work commenced,Im sure the electrican would not like a plasterer to do his type of work and get paid for it.

The whole Im a plumber and carpenter has to do that job after me is like work on sites.Everyone on a site has his job to do after a trade has finished.It was normal when I worked on sites for carpenters,they usually did come in while doing there third fix(finish) and put on the bath panel.Its the same for every other trade on a site and this is where it stems from.In some cases its not acceptable like if the plumber didnt put back stuff like what garyh3 said.In my trade(painting) if I moved furniture or anything like that it was never as issue to put back room/s the way I found them,its part of my job.

Sorry to see the job went wrong and was not to your liking chabsey.

rooferPete

Hi,

Part of the problem is the consumer is not asking enough questions or maybe they are not asking the right questions.

It is not too long ago that when an "Electrical Contractor", undertook the rewiring of a house the consumer dealt with with one person, "The Contractor", today they are dealing with an electrician (if they are lucky) who refuses to chase the walls and make good when finished.

Part of the problem is the trades have have been split within themselves, there are plasterers who could not skim a wall or ceiling but can slab and tape the joints maybe use artex on the ceilings.

Pride in the job is all but gone, perhaps the consumer is bringing some of the problems on themselves by being price driven ?

I can submit a four page specification for a small roof and what do the majority of consumers do ? go to the last page to see what the price is before even reading the introduction page let alone the specification and the material details.

Are the tradesmen to blame ? Yes and No.

Are the consumers to blame ? Yes and No.

Of course the price or cost of the job is important but every little detail included in arriving at the cost is in my opinion more important.

The question to asked here is would the electrician have got the job if the consumer had specified the walls had to be made good by a plasterer or a person of equal competance ?

What must be realised is the electrician would have to employ a plasterer to finish the job properly, an outlay that would probably have increased the cost to the point where the consumer would give the job to another electrician who may just botch the finish because he has been paid anyway.

Unless chabsey has it in writing that the job would be finished by a plasterer I think he may cut his losses and either finish the job DIY or call a plasterer.

.

FX Meister

If the conduit is protruding from the chase though then that is the electricians fault as he didn't chase deep enough. I can see why he wouldn't want to plaster the chase afterwards as it's not really his job. That said, he shouldn't have attempted to plaster it. Could the plaster be sanded down maybe?

RicardoSmith

Well this was a job for a builder, he would employ everyone else. However most people choose to cut out the middle man (the builder) to save money. The tradesman begin greedy attempts to do all the work, so that he'll keep all the money. Obviously some of it he just shouldn't do.

In fairness the electrician knows plastering is required and should have dicussed it with you. Is there a phrase "make good" in the contract anywhere? Usually this means you will restore the surface that has been effected by the work. Whats in the contract?

Victor

Whos doing the painting?

chabsey

RicardoSmith wrote:

Whats in the contract?

Well this is something I'll know to note from now on, you see we didn't really have a "contract", as in something on paper, it was just verbal. The electrician had been recommended by family friends and quoted us a good price (about 1000 euros less than the other quote we got) and we just assumed rewiring also included proper finish. Seeing as getting a house rewired is not something most people do more than once I had no idea that a tradesperson would feel ok about gouging lots of holes in our walls and then leaving us with them. I wasn't price driven in the sense of expecting a lesser/shoddier job cause I was paying less, I honestly (and stupidly) thought the higher quote we got was completely off the wall and because other people also have limited experience in what constitutes a 'decent price' the advice I got from friends was that the higher quote was too high for rewiring.

I have subsequently found out that my cousin got a re-wiring quote for his house, about the same price as the initial quote I got (1000 more) but it included a professional plasterer to finish the job well.

Personally getting the job done and finished correctly is FAR more important to me than saving 1000 euros and I would definetely gone with the higher quote had I known the lower one included 'patchy plastering' as part of the deal. It's probably my own fault in that I never got a written contract and the guy is a decent guy who I got along well with. However, how many times in your life do you get a house rewired? I had no idea what to expect or ask for, I presumed that he being the electrician would know what to highlight and he never mentioned plastering.

He has agreed to check the visible conduiting though so all is not lost.

chabsey

Victor wrote:

Whos doing the painting?

Me!

tapest

Hi
[/QUOTE]It's raised everywhere and in some places the conduiting is actually visible in the plaster.[/QUOTE]

It's probably sprung..When it won't lie flat they usually bend a nail over it beforeplastering

[/QUOTE]no electrician will plaster after they've finished, they'll generally leave the channels cut and you have to hire a plasterer to finish.[/QUOTE]

I've never seen a sparks leave open channels for the client to fill in

However, yesterday he plastered over the channels he had cut to sink the wiring into and it's one of the worst botch jobs I've seen in terms of plastering.

I've only ever seen Sparks use BONDING plaster and for t good reason. It's very easy to get "some sort of finish", don't even need a trowel, can be done with a stick. Application is quick and no polishing.They can simply "screed" over the channel. I would expect nothing better and this is not a critisism. It would be better if the plaster was not exactlyfl ush with old plasterwork.
Get ye to a builder's yard (those boys are a great source of info). The correct plaster to use over bonding( bonding feels rough and grity) is (I think) gyplite. There is also the new product "plaster with a rollerbrush) that has been discussed here recently
hope this helps
t

chabsey

tapest wrote:

I've only ever seen Sparks use BONDING plaster and for t good reason. It's very easy to get "some sort of finish", don't even need a trowel, can be done with a stick. Application is quick and no polishing.They can simply "screed" over the channel. I would expect nothing better and this is not a critisism. It would be better if the plaster was not exactlyfl ush with old plasterwork.
Get ye to a builder's yard (those boys are a great source of info). The correct plaster to use over bonding( bonding feels rough and grity) is (I think) gyplite. There is also the new product "plaster with a rollerbrush) that has been discussed here recently
hope this helps
t

WAs indeed bonding. I tried sanding some of it last night and it has sanded nicely enough. It's probably not that big a deal and is probably fixable but it was a serious shock to see how he had left it. I'll know what to expect next time.

tapest

chabsey wrote:

WAs indeed bonding. I tried sanding some of it last night and it has sanded nicely enough. It's probably not that big a deal and is probably fixable but it was a serious shock to see how he had left it. I'll know what to expect next time.

Don't paint straight over the bonding.....every pimple hole will show
t

RicardoSmith

These days you have to agree on every little detail. If the person isn't willing to have a little paper to clarify whats being doing and what isn't, then walkaway. Usually to much trouble than its worth. Best you can hop now is to get the sparks to finish properly and use the money you saved in the first palce to get a plasterer to finish it. Or do it yourself. Plastering isn't that easy though,

mad m

To be honest €1000 euro for a re-wire was good.They say normally you would have to re-wire a house every 20-30years as far as I can remember....So doing the painting yourself then if filling over the bonding if bonding is not flush just get a 6"" spatula and use poly-filler,this should do the job.

But first check to see if the actual conduit is not loose,but if it is visible the sparks probably used the bonding to stick the conduit in place???

mad m

Victor wrote:

Whos doing the painting?

Victor dont tell me that you were thinking......Leave it for the painter???

Poor auld painters get stuck for alot of other trades,well what can I say we make plasterers look good.:D. And maybe electricans too.

eddiej

Hi guys a little off track but we had the tiler in with us nice guy and did some really lovely work even pointed out where we were going wrong and how by spending only a little extra on tiles place would look way better. However when it came to pay I obviously checked it out and pulled up a few points with him mainly bits of grouting hed had missed, like he didnt lift the lid off the jacks cistern and grout down so it looked well when the lid was on. His response to this was well if I knew you were going to be that fussy I wouldnt have given you such a good price for fecks sake what are these trades guys on. Also a bit of trim in the corner one piece left straight and the other cut at 45 degrees he tells me he wants to charge me for a new bit of trim what the hell am i payin him for surely if i buy the gear and he makes a balls of puttin it up then he is at fault.

These trades guys im sorry have gotta realise they are being paid for the skills they have and cannot just feck off with what they feel is ok

RicardoSmith

The fact is demand for them exceeds supply. So generally they do what the hell they like. Pity but thats the way it is. Of course if you haven't paid them yet then you got them by the short and curlies. As soon as you pay them they disappear.

rooferPete

Hi eddij,

I think the most important part of your post from my point of view is :

"These trades guys im sorry have gotta realise they are being paid for the skills"

No need to apologise as far as I'm concerned, what I do see and read in here is the number of consumers who want the skills but at labourers pay rates.

The number of times we hear about how expensive someone was or how much they wanted is usually never followed up with the level of service and skills they were offering.

I honestly believe it's because the vast majority never ask what is included in the price, I have seen a lot of jobs I have priced half done compared to what I had quoted for.

The same people may cry about the rubbish left behind or the lack of professionalism / skill used on their job, perhaps it is time for people to learn to ask as many questions as they feel they need and especially about items missing from written quotes / estimates.

You are in my opinion 100% correct, you are paying for a finished job and by engaging a skilled tradesman you deserve better than a glorified DIY job.

.

eddiej

Hi Pete,

Could not agree with you more, the reason I got a tiler was tiling is a skilled job in my eyes to get right and is one job that looks cack if not done real well. We were paying €25/sq yd so he wasnt some cheapo lad we were getting in. I take the point you make about asking questions but also some of the tradesmen mentioned here dont exactly go out of their way to lay out what they will do.

Cheers
Eddie

garyh3

€25/sq yd :eek: And your tiler says that a good price.

We went to three tilers range from 17 - 22 sq yd....

sundula

not a sparks but work very much in the industry - and regardless of the house being a new build or update i have never heard of any elec's plastering or filling in chases, TBH i am surprised anyone would have expected it to be part of their job.

Your own real issue is the fact that maybe his conduit is not properly secured which is his fault.

Point was made that there is just to much work for to few trades men is very true - and its still only getting busier which means these guys are getting particular about what they do. I know a lot of sparks who are just to lazy to even chase let alone make good the chases after their finished.

Stoner

This problem in my opinion comes down to paperwork.
The electricians quote should have stated if "builders work" was included or not. Having huge experience in house rewires we always patched up after a rewire.
Were you getting alot of work done?, was there a main builder? who did the sparks have a contract with?. If the electrican was part of an over all project headed by the builder then the builders work is as it says, builders work.
There are 3 pahses in an electrical apprenticeship where an apprentice goes to college, plastering and chasing walls is not part of the apprenticeship, regardless of what people think or not if a sparks can plaster , he's lucky. The issue of chasing and builders work should have been dealth with at the start. Buying the experience or an architect or a builder would stop this problem, or at least show you where to point the finger.
If it was a straight rewire then the sparks would have a duty of care to clean up and patch up after him.
If you were getting loads of work done and decided to bypass the builder and hire directly yourself then maybe you made a mistake.
If your quote was verbal , then say no more, if it was written then it should have had a ref to builders work, or MCD (main contracts discount) this is a fee paid to the builder and the builder would have a set amount of services to provide for to claim this money, this is a legally framed set of condidtions , removal of rubbish from site etc.
So to summerise if it was a straight rewire you could hold money for a poor finish if the sparks quoted for builders work.
If the builder got the sparks then the builder has to plaster and chase.
Along time ago when we did rewires we knew a few plasters and we got them in to plaster new chases for us.
Most of these things come down to experience really, but I'm sure you know that yourself now

eddiej

garyh3,

please dont make me cry by putting up quotes like that, in the end we (or rather she who must be obeyed) told him to feck off with his price she was payin him x amount and that was that he took the cash amount she offered, clever chap!!!

eddie

Victor

Victor wrote:

Whos doing the painting?

chabsey wrote:

Me!

So, why isn't the electrician doing the painting. If you think plastering is in his contract, why don't you think painting is in his contract?

Stoner

good point Victor, I guess the answer to that is the root of the problem