The Haka -- Sacred Ceremony or Louis Walsh's next merchandise?

Snickers Man

The New Zealanders in general, and the Maori in particular, used to insist that the haka performed before the All Blacks play is a sacred ritual and solemn manifestation of native New Zealand culture, which any pasty-faced pakeha would disrespect at their peril.

It has been reported that Michael Campbell, the Maori golfer who won the US Open, had suggested that the injury inflicted on Brian O'Driscoll was because he had not reacted with due deference to the All Blacks performing the haka before the first lion's test.

I have also heard of New Zealanders storming out of peformances of 'Alone it Stands' that wonderful light-hearted play about Munster's great win over the All Blacks, because the haka is performed at the start by a group containing a woman!!!! And the New Zealand women's team have to do a different haka specially sanctioned by Maori elders as being suitable for performance by the fairer sex.

Heavy stuff.
But then, so is a trailer load of bull ****.

It now transpires that the NEW haka, as performed by the All Blacks against South Africa this year, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute!!!!! 'It's mine' says the author. 'It's ours!' say the All Blacks.

This is the one which finishes with the AllBlacks drawing their hands across their necks in a throat slitting action.

Sacred my arse!! This is nothing more than a cheap attempt to psyche up their team before a physical contest and to cow the opposing team into thinking that it's something deeply sacred and spiritual. Which is a bit like calling a song by Boyzone or the Spice Girls a hymn.

No European team should fall for this pile of Kiwi horse **** when they come to play in November. Methinks the Irish team should react by making beer-chugging gestures followed by a simulated smashing of a bottle and jabbing of the broken end into their opponents face. Call it the new Irish haka.

And don't you dare diss it guys!!!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Amazotheamazing

It's a pile of bull****, I'm sure it meant something years ago but now it's just a brand marketing thing. I'm sure it's great honour etc, but no more an honour than wearing the black jersey (or the green jersey). I'm sure the other 3N's teams are pissed off by it at this stage, I can't see SA or Aus getting too affected by it, and would rather the opposition saved their dancing for the nightclubs.

[Jackass]

If I was the lions/irish coach, i would have told the players to line out arms around eachother, shoulder to shoulder, with their back turned to the haka...or better yet, wait until they start it and then do it.

Call me ignorant, but i have absolutly no respect for the haka, i infact encourage disrespecting it!!!

Amazotheamazing

I think they should ignore it altogether and just start into a warm-up routine, or have the props practice goal kicks to distract the crowd. The Irish fans should sing "There is an Isle" during it (as it is the best rugby song from Ireland). In short, give it the respect it deserves..... if it was so ****ing special you wouldn't see it in ads to sell jerseys.

mchurl

maybe it was special years ago but it has lost some of it's appeal. and i don't think that opposing teams should have to do what the all-blacks think they should do.

They should do whatever the fcuk they want when the haka is on.

And if this is disrespectful to the all-blacks, will it not fire them up for the match even more?

Mungaman

Look do what you want, say what you want, but your cultural ignorance aint your best point. The haka, what it stands for and the steepd cultural, spiritual and honoured traditions belongs to to the Maori and people of New Zealand.
The actions your suggesting and they way which you want to portray them is culturally wrong. Have you ever actually discussed face to face your ideas with a Maori? perhaps they would disagree as much as I do.
I just wonder as well wether your not just adding fuel to the All Black fire as well. Do you think those actions which you suggest will be a leading advantage so you can overthrow this statistical nightmare

New Zealand v Ireland Head to Head

Results Summary from 1903 to present.
New Zealand
Ireland

Played
17
17

Won
16
0

Drew
1
1

Last won at home
22-Jun-2002
-

Last won away
17-Nov-2001
-

Points Spread
New Zealand
Ireland

Points
411
152

Tries
59
16

Conversions
35
9

Penalties
27
19

Drop Goals
3
2

Marks
0
0

Records
New Zealand
Ireland

Highest Score
63 in 1997
29 in 2001

Biggest Margin
53 in 1992
0 in 1973

Most Tries
11 in 1992
3 in 2001

Biggest Winning Run
11
0

No Points Conceded
2 games
-

No Tries Conceded
8 games
-


Best Results
Ireland
10 - 10
20/01/1973 at Lansdowne Road

New Zealand
59 - 6
6/06/1992 at Athletic Park



New Zealand v Ireland Down the Years
Date
Result
Venue
City

22-Jun-2002
Won - 40 - 8
Eden Park
Auckland

15-Jun-2002
Won - 15 - 6
Carisbrook
Dunedin

17-Nov-2001
Won - 40 - 29
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

15-Nov-1997
Won - 63 - 15
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

27-May-1995
Won - 43 - 19
Ellis Park
Johannesburg

06-Jun-1992
Won - 59 - 6
Athletic Park
Wellington

30-May-1992
Won - 24 - 21
Carisbrook
Dunedin

18-Nov-1989
Won - 23 - 6
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

04-Nov-1978
Won - 10 - 6
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

05-Jun-1976
Won - 11 - 3
Athletic Park
Wellington

23-Nov-1974
Won - 15 - 6
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

20-Jan-1973
Drew - 10 - 10
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

07-Dec-1963
Won - 6 - 5
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

09-Jan-1954
Won - 14 - 3
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

07-Dec-1935
Won - 17 - 9
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

01-Nov-1924
Won - 6 - 0
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

25-Nov-1905
Won - 15 - 0
Lansdowne Road
Dublin

Snickers Man

Amazotheamazing wrote:

The Irish fans should sing "There is an Isle" during it (as it is the best rugby song from Ireland). .

Now that's a good point. There MUST be some crowd reaction but we shouldn't succcumb to a totally negative approach that would only fire them up and let ourselves down. So we shouldn't boo, or cat call or make racist allusions or pelt them with inappropriate fruit.

I think you're right. A massed choir singing a song back at them in unison would have the effect of drowning out the haka and firing up our own guys as well. But what song should it be? There is an Isle isn't fiery enough for these purposes. Fields of Athenry? Not too popular with the Briron from Norn Iron.

Loath though I am to admit it, it's got to be Ireland's Call. Sung at Max Volume. Maybe we need to psyche ourselves up just to do that.

Snickers Man

Mungaman wrote:

Look do what you want, say what you want, but your cultural ignorance aint your best point. The haka, what it stands for and the steepd cultural, spiritual and honoured traditions belongs to to the Maori and people of New Zealand.

Not any more. Read the link I posted earlier. From a New Zealand paper by the way. Intellectual property, eh?

Do you think those actions which you suggest will be a leading advantage so you can overthrow this statistical nightmare

Played 17 Won 0 Drew 1 Lost 16

OK. My dad was there in 1963 when New Zealand held on desparately to win by a point.

I was there in 1973 when Barry McGann missed a conversion by a lick of paint that would have seen us win the game rather than draw it.

I was there again in 1978 when New Zealand ended the game hanging on desperately to win by a single score. A week after Munster had beaten more or less the same team.

And in 1992, after a Five Nations Whitewash Ireland went to New Zealand with a team even further weakened, if such could be thought possible, and came within a dropped intercept of the biggest upset in history in the first test. That a team containing such luminaries as Neville Furlong (who he?) Ronnie Carey (butterfingers) Kelvin Leahy (flanker played a stormer until he broke his ankle) and Mick Fitzgibbon could run a team with Fitzpatrick, Bunce et al so close was truly remarkable.

All your statistics show is that the day when an inferior (on paper) Irish team gets lucky against the All Blacks is fast approaching. And 100 years is a long time to wait.

Amazotheamazing

Well MM, if we're destined to lose anyway, why bother enduring the sight of the opposition prancing around for a few minutes too? Nothing just think the Haka is a way of building "Brand New Zealand", in order to get some more kids to buy jerseys. Wasn't always so, but now it is.

Mungaman

If Ireland beat the abs, haka or no haka, o'driscoll or no o'driscoll it'll be a good day for Irish rugby. Till then look forward to the match and wind your heads past the "INCIDENT" and remeber what rugby is about. BOD was saying that NZ fans have unhealthy love of rugby he could do with meeting a few of the boards regulars.
As for the 12th I can't see you doing it but hey rugbys a funny old game

Liam90

what you guys are saying is totally disrespectful you know nothing about New Zealand, you know nothing about the Maori's and you know nothing about the Haka so i would suggest to keep you mouth shut, what happened to brian o'driscoll happens all the time so i don't know why this one is any different, it happened four months ago, stop crying and get over it you were hammered then and will be hammered again except the second time you get hammered on the 12th don't cry about

Davei141

Why should we show any respect what-so-ever? The last time the utmost respect was shown by somebody they were planted into the ground head first. Of course because barely anybody in new zealand has any idea about the in's and out's of maori tradition it was able to be twisted that he showed disrespect, and hey presto, everyone in NZ knows that BoD disrespected the haka and the maori people. Dont make me laugh, dont ever ask for respect when the only time you use maori traditions is for a gimmick and a cheap advantage over the opposing team. And if a certain All black happens to get seriously injured, we can put it down to one of those things thats always happening, right? Maybe people would stop crying if umaga and mealamu didnt get away with it scot free.

Snickers Man

Liam90 wrote:

what you guys are saying is totally disrespectful you know nothing about New Zealand, you know nothing about the Maori's and you know nothing about the Haka so i would suggest to keep you mouth shut,

Who are you? Bill O'Reilly? Don't tell me to shut up.

I'm not commenting on Maori culture per se here. I'm commenting about a ritual that only occurs when their culture meets another. It's a communication of intent by one party to a contest, and as such, those being communicated with are an interested party with as much right to comment on its style and content as those doing the communicating.

This whole Haka thing has turned full circle. It started off as white men patronising, ie showing contempt for, the ways of Johnny Native, and now it's come around to the same thing.

It used to be a sop to Maori culture performed by largely white teams whose members looked as self conscious as your dad dancing to M&M at a wedding while they clapped and slapped and tried to keep up with whoever was leading the chant. If you ever get to see the preamble to the famous All Blacks Barbarians match from 1973 on video you'll see what I mean.

Then when more real Maoris got involved, they reclaimed it, made it more serious and threatening and turned it into a co-ordinated and fearsome spectacle.

Now they've rewritten it, or somebody has and the 'ownership' of the 'intellectual property' is in dispute. I'm sorry but claiming that a dance which involves your opponents threatenting to slit your throats is deserving of the respect that would normally attend a religious service is taking insult to one's intelligence a little too far.

It's abusive, threatening and over the top, the All Blacks know it and they should know we know it.

Let's drown it out with song.

Snickers Man

Davei141 wrote:

Maybe people would stop crying if umaga and mealamu didnt get away with it scot free.

Bullseye! That's the point.

Eoin

Davei141 wrote:

The last time the utmost respect was shown by somebody they were planted into the ground head first. Of course because barely anybody in new zealand has any idea about the in's and out's of maori tradition it was able to be twisted that he showed disrespect

I missed the part where BOD did whatever he did during the Haka, but saw the "tackle".

Have I got it right in thinking that BOD made some action that was supposed to be a mark of respect to the Haka, but the ABs apparently didn't know this? Can someone clarify?

Pigman II

I'd like to see it disrepected on the field of play more often alright. NZ claim its a Maori tradition but from what little Rugby I've been able to endure watching I reckon it's 100% about pre-match intimidation. Plus when you consider most of the team (from my observations at least) aren't even Maoris you have to ask yourself whats going on there?

But the question I have to ask why exactly is this even performed or more precisely why is it ALLOWED to be performed? Do the NZ soccer team do it before a game or any other branch of NZ sport considering it's such a 'tradition' for them? Can the Ireland rugby team break into a bout of Riverdance next time out if they feel like it? Is Rugby just a sport for wanabee dancers?

However as a way of neutralising the Haka it I reckon in future opposition as a team should point their fingers at the NZ players and laugh derisively at it every time it's performed ... or do the old 'milk bottle shake' gesture (you know what I mean!) with their hand.

Trojan

Munga: I fail to see the relevance of your statistics.

Liam90: why should Irish people have any respect for NZ? Is respect not earned?

(Moderator) All: please keep it civil on the rugby board.

Snickers Man

eoin_s wrote:

I missed the part where BOD did whatever he did during the Haka, but saw the "tackle".

Have I got it right in thinking that BOD made some action that was supposed to be a mark of respect to the Haka, but the ABs apparently didn't know this? Can someone clarify?

Here's how O'Driscoll describes it

Eoin

Snickers Man wrote:

Here's how O'Driscoll describes it

Thanks Snickers Man. Here is the relevant part for anyone else interested:

From the very start of the tour we had discussed, at some length, how to accept the haka before the first Test, because for the All Blacks that's clearly where the game begins. Clive Woodward mentioned a number of emails he had received on the subject, including one from a Maori elder which detailed exactly how it should be done with the maximum of respect. These instructions were consistent with advice we received from the Maori welcoming party.

We followed his plan to the letter. I, as the warrior chief, stepped forward directly opposite their chief - Tana Umaga - to accept the challenge, accompanied, as best practice dictates, by our youngest warrior, Dwayne Peel. The rest of the team fanned out across the pitch and remained as motionless as Easter Island statues. It was exhilarating.

As protocol demands, I tried to maintain eye contact with Tana and remain still, even though it was freezing cold and I could feel muscles tightening up, especially my hamstring, which I always like to keep warm in the build-up to a game. I normally keep my tracksuit bottoms on during the anthems and sometimes have the masseur run on and work on my hamstring there and then. But we decided to bin that to avoid any possible misinterpretation.

Tana always seems to get pretty worked up when he leads the haka - it's an incredible advantage for the All Blacks to perform it while their opponents stand there subservient and powerless - but it's part of the tradition and a Lions tour is about maintaining tradition. But this time he seemed to be particularly animated and hyped up.

When the haka was finished it was time to formally accept the challenge. As the Maori elder instructed, I leaned forward while still maintaining eye contact, clutched a piece of grass from the pitch and threw it to the wind. It went properly, thank God. Tana, though, was still looking extremely agitated.

I've been told some of the All Blacks and spectators thought we had insulted them by the manner in which we received the haka. That is just too incredible for words. We had done our homework thoroughly and made every effort to ensure we behaved in textbook fashion, and now I have to put up with this crap. The truth is that we understood and respected the haka a bit better than some of the All Blacks.

What more do they want from us? They have to show us respect as well. If it's a problem with us smiling or twitching at the wrong time - as has been suggested - there is a very simple solution. We can do away with the haka. Then we can't possibly offend anybody and we can all start on a level playing field.

Trojan

It's allowed because it's traditional.

Check out the Haka wikipedia entry. Especially note the older and newer words

At this stage of professionalism it should not have any intimidatory effect on the opposition. To the contrary, as BOD showed, the most difficult thing in dealing with the oppositions haka is responding to it in a way which they understand as showing respect (the simple fact here is that the NZ'ers were ignorant of their own custom).

Pigman II

Well if not intimidation then it at least gives them an advantage. BOD pointed out there that having to humour this dance interferes with his own pre-match preparation.

Snickers Man

The Haka has been discussed here before and somebody brought up this question:

daosulli wrote:

Wasnt it Willie Anderson, years & years ago who lined up the irish team to face the haka & he dragged more of less the whole team right in their faces of the AB's, granted that was the only decent thing he did all game . . . . still got the players & crowd in the mood it

You can see a brief slide show of it on this site Scroll down till you see the photographs marked 'Slide Show' beside a link for an MP3 of the haka and click through them. You get a fair idea of what happened. It was great.

Actually, I think it was after that that the opposing team was told to remain in their own half while the haka was performed.

Amazotheamazing

Liam90, respect a dance that has been sold to adidas? Go way and think about that, either the NZRFU have completely sold out your heritage or it means nothing anymore. I'm sure it meant something prior to professionalism, but now it's just prematch entertainment, and hardly something that requires much respect. In fact, the fact that BOD knew more about the tradition than most of the NZ team shows how little it means to either side. Like I said, it's a way to get more kids to buy jerseys, build a brand etc.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

CJhaughey

Pigman II wrote:

Can the Ireland rugby team break into a bout of Riverdance next time out if they feel like it? Is Rugby just a sport for wanabee dancers?

I for one would pay to see the current Irish Squad perform lord of the dance;0
I could really see Reggie (twinkle toes ) Corrigan starting a new career:)

Snickers Man

Pigman II wrote:

Can the Ireland rugby team break into a bout of Riverdance next time out if they feel like it? Is Rugby just a sport for wanabee dancers?

CJhaughey wrote:

I for one would pay to see the current Irish Squad perform lord of the dance;0
I could really see Reggie (twinkle toes ) Corrigan starting a new career:)

Maybe we could draught in Tadhg Kenelly both to play and perform, given that he 'treated' the Australian public to a jig after being presented with his grand Final medal and that he wasn't available for the international rules match. He's a big strong fast boy who knows how to kick an oval ball.

And Kerry GAA players normally make bloody good rugby players. (Thinks of Moss Keane, Mick Galwey et al and genuflects)

Mungaman

Trojan the relevance of the statistics is that you haven't won for 100 years mate. Sing as loud as you like the Auzies did it in Sydney and sang waltzing Matilda. The result was the Auzy public felt that it did them no favours and ruined a part of an age old rugby tradition. It won't bother the ABs and as I have said before you don't think it will work against you and fire the ABs up even further?

Sangre

Whats that got to do with anything in this topic?

I'd love if during the haka the Irish team formed a ring and started chanting to themselves...sct rugby style.

I..R..E..L...A..N..D

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Snickers Man

Mungaman wrote:

It won't bother the ABs and as I have said before you don't think it will work against you and fire the ABs up even further?

Don't bull**** a bull****ter Mungaman!

If we didn't do anything to fire up the All Blacks, they'd invent some slight anyway. All small nations feel the need for a persecution complex to fire themselves up. Our team and supporters should be worrying how to fire THEMSELVES up and not give a rat's ass about whatever effect it's likely to have on the All Blacks.

We MUST NOT take the haka lying down this time. And if the New Zealanders themselves are willing to cheapen it by putting it at the centre of an intellectual property dispute we should not even lose any sleep about causing any potential offence.

Having said which, there is no need to be unnecessarily abusive or derogatory towards it. It should be confronted but we shouldn't let ourselves down in the process.

My preference would be for a repeat of the Willie Anderson tactic of 1989: Link arms and march right into the haka snarling: ' you're not going to win, you bastards!' And the fans should sing something LOUD. Even if it's only Ireland's Call.

Mungaman

Snickers if the Irish did a repeat of Willies effort it would be awesome. The all blacks loved it there is nothing wrong with facing up to the haka. Infact I would love, no really love if they did. In Maori tradition a haka can be challenged and waring tribes would counteract haka with there own. Its the universal lunacy of reducing your fellow countrymen into boo ing etc etc do something positive ie sing, chant Ireland, get the team to link arms take the challenge and put some belife in themselves that they are going to push a game to them right from the start. Just out of interest who do you think is going to win this game?

PS: By the way New Zealand is Geografically larger than Ireland as small nations go.

Snickers Man

Mungaman wrote:

Just out of interest who do you think is going to win this game?

PS: By the way New Zealand is Geografically larger than Ireland as small nations go.

Well that's as maybe but the populations are about the same. (4-5m) You can't get a waterfall to play for you, can you?

As for who's going to win: well, on paper, without even knowing what the Irish team is going to be yet, it would appear that Ireland is too weakened by injuries (and not just THAT one) to have a chance. No Hickie, O'Connell or Quinlan for starters. And Simon Easterby is extremely doubtful.

Having said which, my Dad assures me that the 1963 team when it was announced was greeted with groans of disbelief. There was some chap called Fortune who apparently was in the great tradition of Irish threequarters in that he had no skill, no pace and couldn't catch a cold. Yet he scored a great try and put Ireland into the lead, one which they kept until late in the second half.

The pack was a strong one though. From memory it included a second row of the young Willie John McBride and the captain Bill Mulcahy who apparently had the game of his life that day. I think Ray McLoughlin may have been playing as well.

And then of course there was 1992 when Ireland were whitewashed following which their few good players like Simon Geoghegan and Brendan Mullin pulled out of the end of season tour to New Zealand. In the first test, a second-choice team from the bottom-ranked Five Nations country raced into the lead and eventually lost by a mere 24 pts to 21. A dropped intercept in the last minute could have led to a breakaway try and the most unlikely victory ever.

What I'm saying is that there's always a chance, even in the most unpreposessing of circumstances that we will get a bounce of the ball at the right time and a superhuman effort from all concerned to pull something out of the bag.

After all, the chances of being lucky once in a hundred years must be quite high.

But the bookies will favour NZ and for good reason.

Trojan

Munga wrote:

Trojan the relevance of the statistics is that you haven't won for 100 years mate.

And what's the relevance of that?

Santa Claus

Snickers Man wrote:

Then when more real Maoris got involved, they reclaimed it, made it more serious and threatening and turned it into a co-ordinated and fearsome spectacle.

Would these real Maoris be the Fijian maori's such as Rokococko & Sivivatu or the Samoan Maoris such as Muliaina or Jerry Collins (Maybe I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that Umaga was born in Samoa and his parents moved to NZ when he was very young).

Snickers Man

Santa Claus wrote:

Would these real Maoris be the Fijian maori's such as Rokococko & Sivivatu or the Samoan Maoris such as Muliaina or Jerry Collins (Maybe I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that Umaga was born in Samoa and his parents moved to NZ when he was very young).

I think Umaga is the first non-Maori to be allowed lead the haka.

The point I was making was the difference between the haka as it was performed up to the 1970s, and how it's been done since the 1980s.

Amz

Is he not Samoan Maori?

Crash

He's the first non NZ Maori rather snickers, as amz has stated. or as far as i recall anyhow.

Snickers Man

Now I'm not sure of my ground here (I'm sure mungaman or liam or the one-eyed kiwi will enlighten us) but my understanding is that the Maori are the indigenous people of New Zealand and a completely different nation from the other indigenous inhabitants of Pacific Islands eg Samoans, Fijians, Tongans etc.

I also understand that the qualification requirements to be a Maori are even more generous than Ireland's famous 'granny rule'. If you have ANY Maori ancestry at all, you're considered by the Maori to be 'one of us'. Therefore many white New Zealanders whose families have been there for a few generations would have a drop of Maori blood in them and consequently be entitled to lead the haka.

Willing to stand corrected on this one.

Eoin

Snickers Man wrote:

Now I'm not sure of my ground here (I'm sure mungaman or liam or the one-eyed kiwi will enlighten us) but my understanding is that the Maori are the indigenous people of New Zealand and a completely different nation from the other indigenous inhabitants of Pacific Islands eg Samoans, Fijians, Tongans etc.

I also understand that the qualification requirements to be a Maori are even more generous than Ireland's famous 'granny rule'. If you have ANY Maori ancestry at all, you're considered by the Maori to be 'one of us'. Therefore many white New Zealanders whose families have been there for a few generations would have a drop of Maori blood in them and consequently be entitled to lead the haka.

Willing to stand corrected on this one.

It must be pretty lenient - who was that whiter than white blond guy who played for them against the Lions?

I would think the "Granny" rule is for soccer. Don't you just have to be naturalised in your host country to play Rugby for them (e.g. NZ guys in Japan, Italy etc)?

Peter B

Snickers Man wrote:

And the fans should sing something LOUD. Even if it's only Ireland's Call.

I think there is no problem with bursting into song during the haka. Jaesus its not a minute of silence for someone who died. The all blacks never demand silence for it as it is their psyche-up tactic. Just like we should sing our own psyche-up song.

Booing however should not be done as thats not helping our team but attempting to knock another team which is obviously not rugby like. Also I believe we would just look stupid if we booed them during the whole haka and then got hammered by them.

Watching the Lions tour with Hector, last night. One New Zealander said it's amazing how everyone in the statium and watching on tv thought there should be a citing except the citing commisioner (South Arfican) who had access to all the video, not just the televised stuff. Maybe just revenge for O'Gara's controversial try v South Africe in Lansdowne last year. Or maybe just because South Africans are just much tougher.;)

Amz

Peter B wrote:

Watching the Lions tour with Hector, last night. One New Zealander said it's amazing how everyone in the statium and watching on tv thought there should be a citing except the citing commisioner (South Arfican) who had access to all the video, not just the televised stuff. Maybe just revenge for O'Gara's controversial try v South Africe in Lansdowne last year. Or maybe just because South Africans are just much tougher.;)

I don't think that's it at all ...

The South African citing comissioner was due to catch a flight home hours after the test finished. It probably would have delayed him too much to cite anyone involved in the tackle. Priorities and all that ...

SnickersMan, please stop singling out individual posters in an attempt to aggrevate them.

Peter B

No of course the O'Gara try was not the real reason for him not citing the tackle. My comment was just tongue in cheek. But I would be interested to talk to the citing commissioner especially with the new evidence and ask him did he even check the tackle after the game to see if it looked dodgy and if he did would the new vdeo evidence have made a difference.

Still why am I still on about the O'Driscoll tackle? Because the program last night highlighted it again. Still I'm sure I wouldn't still be going on about it if they had injured Matt Dawson.

Amz

I know the O'Gara tackle wasn't the reason and I didn't think you were being serious. I just didn't bother editing that bit out of the piece I quoted.

If they'd injured Matt Dawson I think we'd be giving them the freedom of the city.

RuggieBear

Peter B wrote:

I think there is no problem with bursting into song during the haka.

i agree just make sure you don't try and offer it any respect. Christ they tried to kill the last player who did that....

Peter B

RuggieBear wrote:

i agree just make sure you don't try and offer it any respect. Christ they tried to kill the last player who did that....

Hmm maybe grass should be handed out to all the crowd and when when the haka is being preformed we will all throw up a few blades of grass as a mark of respect to the visiting nation.

Actually, maybe that's not safe...

Snickers Man

Amz wrote:

SnickersMan, please stop singling out individual posters in an attempt to aggrevate them.

I resent that!!!

I wasn't singling out anybody to try to aggravate them. I thought I had said quite clearly what I believe to be the case with regard to Maori tradition and membership and added the caveat that if I was wrong, I am sure that one of the three Kiwis (ie the guys? I named) who post to this thread could give us all the correct version.

That's all.

No offence intended there.



[Edit: OK I see that Liam90 and OneEyedKiwi haven;t actually posted to this thread although they're elsewhere in the rugby forum.Perhaps tahts's where the confusion arose]