Luck.....

roryc

Playing on Pokerstars a fair bit over the last few days and consistent string of bad beats got me thinking. Am I playing bad or am I just 'unlucky'?

We all know Matt Damon's line from the end of Rounders when he's sitting in the taxi on the way to Vegas and the taxi driver says 'good luck', to which he thinks 'why do people think it's about luck' (or something to that effect!)

Just wondering how many of you actually believe in 'luck'. I've always considered myself to be pretty unlucky, but maybe thats just because I remember my bad beats. Or is it? I don't have pokertracker so I just kept a written record of my progress over the last week.

I found that out of 50 STT's and MTT's I managed to make the money only 11 times. But when I did make the money it was usually pretty good. So I still came out with a profit. I kept a record of all the times I went all in (and got called) and found that out of 86 times I went in ahead 78, but only won 31/86! So I lost more than half the time when I went in ahead, and usually pretty far ahead! This can't be normal can it?

I then looked at whether I could have played any of the hands differently, but from what I can tell it was pairs getting beaten by better pairs, flopped flushes/straights being beaten by full houses, I even had quads beaten by a straight flush! Anyway, I then thought that because it wasn't anything I was really doing wrong, perhaps I was just having a bad run.

But then it hit me. It's always been like this. It's how online poker has always been for me. It's the reason I can only make small profits, because I need to play 10 tournaments just to win 1. It's gotten to a stage where I cannot look at the screen anymore when I'm all in against someone, no matter how far ahead I am. I have to take anything breakable away from the computer area just in case.... I am just consistenly losing when I'm ahead and I can't figure out where I'm going wrong.

Even in live games I seem to be pretty unlucky. In all the big tourneys I've ever played (only about 30), I've always been knocked out on a bad beat. The only big one where I managed to avoid them, I manged to win 4K. I've even picked up a nickname from some people - 'Jonah'. Quite apt.

So what's the verdict? Is my strategy wrong, or is it simply bad 'luck'?

ntlbell

Maybe give the poker books a miss for a bit and have a read of this..

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0099443244.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Iago

I went through this whole "I'm so unlucky" phase a while ago, and for what it's worth here's what I found. It turned out that I wasn't quite so unlucky as I thought. When I went back through the hands that knocked me out of tournaments I could normally see something I did wrong. calling instead of raising, not raising enough or raising too much. Committing my stack when the advantage I had over the table meant that I didn't need to.

So why only 31/86 wins while you're ahead then, well it's simple, what about the times when you got your chips in without having to go all-in? When you add up both sets of coinflip or 60/40 situations how many did you win then? You don't remember them as much because they didn't knock you out of the tournament or have the chance to, because you didn't have all your stack in the middle but they still count as the number of coinflip situations you're involved in.

If you add up all the small and big hands in which you were 50/50 or 60/40 then I think you'll see that it evens out. The big difference for me was the way I was playing the hands, in most of them I feel that looking back I made a mistake in either my judgement of the opponent or in the way I played my own hand in the circumstances.

It could well just be a bad run, we all get those. Maybe drop down a level or two and start again, see if you can iron out the specifics of what's going wrong. Depending on what level you're playing at as well you see some shocking play, certainly up as high as .50/1 cash games and as high as $50 STTs there are a lot of poor players who commit all their chips to pots. As a result you get a lot more chases than you would expect and therefore the potential to lose is a lot higher. Opponents aren't laying down hands as they should be, that could also be a factor.

rag2gar

I seem to get that a lot too. Also it seems to be when im 70-90% ahead. I think bad beats are unfort part of the game and some people are just "unlucky" if u can call it that. The amount of times i hear "oooh" from ppl watchin me playing is criminal. And its never in my favour

roryc

Cheers that sounds pretty helpful. I actually did drop right down to $5 and $10 games, mainly to minimise my losses. Hopefully it is something I can fix, although in most cases I think I played them well. It was usually a case of me either calling an all in with AA/KK or maybe QQ, and getting beaten, or else flopping the nuts and calling an all in and getting beaten. It was usually me calling someone elses all in.

Obviously I will always strive to play better, and I hope it is just bad luck.

Thanks again

ZZR1100

Its hard to argue with your stats but what happens most people is they forget about the 50/50s they win and only remember the 1s they lose.
Either you belive in luck (long term) or you dont but im sure most here on occasion have felt the poker gods are against them.
that book any good btw

ntlbell

Nail hit on head Iago

I think it's too easy to sit and whinge about bad beats and how unlucky we are instead of being brutally honest with yourself and your play, I use to think I was just unlucky and mumble to myself about bad beats.

I've changed that now and can give myself a kick for making the wrong move, like Iago mentioned, raising too much, not raising enough calling instead of raising etc, because I couldn't admit at the time I was just playing badly and it was easier to blame it on luck than to take the time to change my play.

I still get unlucky sometimes and I still make mistakes, but instead of blaming it on bad luck and going on TILT, I now correct the mistake. I don't think you can progress as a player if you continue to blame luck/bad beats etc etc

roryc

ntlbell wrote:

Nail hit on head Iago

I think it's too easy to sit and whinge about bad beats and how unlucky we are instead of being brutally honest with yourself and your play, I use to think I was just unlucky and mumble to myself about bad beats.

I've changed that now and can give myself a kick for making the wrong move, like Iago mentioned, raising too much, not raising enough calling instead of raising etc, because I couldn't admit at the time I was just playing badly and it was easier to blame it on luck than to take the time to change my play.

I still get unlucky sometimes and I still make mistakes, but instead of blaming it on bad luck and going on TILT, I now correct the mistake. I don't think you can progress as a player if you continue to blame luck/bad beats etc etc

Exactly my point. I didn't want to simply put it down to luck, which is why I made a record of my games, and went over them to check if it was a fault of my own. I've also got a good response here so far, and hopefully it is down to something I am doing, so I can fix it.

One point I forgot to mention is that I have yet to read ANY poker books... Perhaps this has something to do with it? I can get by fine in a live tourney because I get by on skills I have picked up, and instinct. But in online, I can get impatient and go on tilt a lot easier, and I think maybe reading a few books may help.

ntlbell

roryc wrote:

Exactly my point. I didn't want to simply put it down to luck, which is why I made a record of my games, and went over them to check if it was a fault of my own.

It might be an idea to have a friend or a more expirienced player look at your HH and see if they can point out mistakes in your play, I've done this on occasion and it's really helped me rule out some basic mistakes from my play that I couldn't see, or refused to admit was a mistake.

roryc

will do. cheers

Culchie

Yes, put the hand histories up to the boards jury, will you be found innocent or guilty?:)

padser

It is completely true that people do have swings of both bad and good 'luck'. even over what people might consider the 'long term'. but in fairness these are really just variances. 80 odd hands isnt even close to being large enough to be statically useful.


Not trying to say it aint damn annoying though :mad:

Culchie

'Luck' is not justabout cards though.

There's the confidence factor as any sports person would tell you, and also there are days when you just got out of bed the wrong side, drop 3 plates at breakfast, trip over the dog, scrape the car in the car park, washing machine leaking when you get home, and you find out your mother in law is coming to stay for the weekend. When this happens playing poker is not advisable either.

So 'karma' otherwise known as luck is also a factor.

ntlbell

Culchie wrote:

'Luck' is not justabout cards though.

There's the confidence factor as any sports person would tell you, and also there are days when you just got out of bed the wrong side, drop 3 plates at breakfast, trip over the dog, scrape the car in the car park, washing machine leaking when you get home, and you find out your mother in law is coming to stay for the weekend. When this happens playing poker is not advisable either.

So 'karma' otherwise known as luck is also a factor.

You must have read that book too then

Daithio

I don't believe in luck. It's fair enough to use the term as a description of the past, but it doesn't have any bearing on what will happen in future events. Good players though, tend to be more 'unlucky' than bad players, because most of the time when their chips go in they are ahead, and inevitably some of these times they will lose; you rarely see a good player suck out on people because they rarely have their chips in unless they are ahead.

ZZR1100

Daithio wrote:

Good players though, tend to be more 'unlucky' than bad players, because most of the time when their chips go in they are ahead, and inevitably some of these times they will lose; you rarely see a good player suck out on people because they rarely have their chips in unless they are ahead.

nail on the head there

jtsuited

i'm just not a believer in luck. It all balances out. I think if you acknowledge luck as an actual entity, you're playing could suffer severely!

Doc Farrell

jtsuited wrote:

i'm just not a believer in luck. It all balances out. I think if you acknowledge luck as an actual entity, you're playing could suffer severely!

I definitely believe in luck and some people are luckier than others, otherwise there would be no explanation for my wins!

or Roryc's for that matter back when he was the king of the freerolls long long ago...

kincsem

There are 169 starting hands and about 20 of these are playable. Some time ago I put the 169 hands into Excel and using the random number function graphed the playable v non-playable hands. You can have some very long dry runs waiting for a playable hand. You can be lucky and hit 30% playable hands or hit 0% playable over say 60 hands (two hours). Then the flop can kill the hand.

I believe you need to limp in as often as possible with the dross and see if you can get lucky. If you hit trips, two pair, a straight/or flush (or 4/5 of one), then you can get well paid. Definitely play 67o; 8To; K3s. A2 is very good, especially if suited.
A recent board to my A2 was 2 2 A A A and the other player was betting on the river. I was worried about my kicker.

This suggests playing in late position only, or come in if there are a few callers before you (which often worries the button and blinds who don't raise as they are afraid of someone slow-playing a monster).

If you don't hit the flop big throw it away.

De Deraco

I am Not a believer in lucky people and unlucky people. i think people are very quick to forget the hands which they've won. and in alot of players dont raise enough chips thus allowing themselves to be outdrawn.

Saying that the first time in a live tourny i had Aces cracked it cost me €7000 merrion wsop sattelite final table

cardshark202

I think that it all evens out. The problem is it sometimes evens out at the wrong times, like getting runner runnered in the 270 game then rivering a 2 outer in a freeroll!:(

roryc

I was almost in agreement about luck not being a major issue, until tonight.
If the last few nights were bad, tonight was a fcuking disaster. I have never had so many bad beats in such a short amount of time..... It was unbelievable.

My head actually hurts from how unlucky I was tonight. I again counted how many showdowns I went into. I went all in a total of 38 times, I was ahead 34 of those, but lost 36 of them. 36!!!!!

I lost basically every hand I went into, regardless of how good it was.

I didn't realise you could email your hand histories so I emailed myself the last 10 hands. Take into account that these hands are within the space of 10 minutes, and are by no way the worst that I had. So here is 'proof' (as requested Culchie!)


Hand 1

Dealt to roryc69 [As Ac]
pageup: folds
roryc69: raises 400 to 800
jlc30001: folds
Flygirl: folds
Sandbagger: folds
McG369: raises 1200 to 2000
priceman: calls 2000
HESCMIN: folds
MrMRI: folds
roryc69: raises 871 to 2871 and is all-in
McG369: calls 871
priceman: calls 871
*** FLOP *** [Kd 2s 4c]
roryc69 said, "here comes 9 or 5, fcuking guarantee"
McG369: checks
priceman: bets 2071 and is all-in
McG369: calls 2071
*** TURN *** [Kd 2s 4c] [9s]
roryc69 said, "#XGR"
*** RIVER *** [Kd 2s 4c 9s] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
McG369: shows [5d 5c] (a pair of Fives)
priceman: shows [9c 9h] (three of a kind, Nines)
priceman collected 4142 from side pot
roryc69: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)
priceman collected 9438 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 13580 Main pot 9438. Side pot 4142. | Rake 0
Board [Kd 2s 4c 9s 7h]
Seat 1: priceman (button) showed [9c 9h] and won (13580) with three of a kind,
Nines
Seat 2: HESCMIN (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: MrMRI (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: pageup folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: roryc69 showed [As Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: jlc30001 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Flygirl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Sandbagger folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: McG369 showed [5d 5c] and lost with a pair of Fives


hand 2

PokerStars Game #2901582741: Tournament #14116052, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII
(200/400) - 2005/10/26 - 21:47:25 (ET)
Table '14116052 90' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: priceman (3471 in chips)
Seat 2: HESCMIN (5677 in chips)
Seat 3: MrMRI (3710 in chips)
Seat 4: pageup (12525 in chips)
Seat 5: roryc69 (2584 in chips)
Seat 6: jlc30001 (10120 in chips)
Seat 7: Flygirl (5610 in chips)
Seat 8: Sandbagger (11100 in chips)
Seat 9: McG369 (13214 in chips)
priceman: posts the ante 25
HESCMIN: posts the ante 25
MrMRI: posts the ante 25
pageup: posts the ante 25
roryc69: posts the ante 25
jlc30001: posts the ante 25
Flygirl: posts the ante 25
Sandbagger: posts the ante 25
McG369: posts the ante 25
Flygirl: posts small blind 200
Sandbagger: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to roryc69 [Th Td]
McG369: folds
priceman: raises 400 to 800
HESCMIN: calls 800
MrMRI: folds
pageup: folds
roryc69: raises 1759 to 2559 and is all-in
jlc30001: folds
Flygirl: folds
Sandbagger: folds
priceman: folds
HESCMIN: calls 1759
*** FLOP *** [6c Ac Qc]
*** TURN *** [6c Ac Qc] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [6c Ac Qc Tc] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HESCMIN: shows [As 2c] (a flush, Ace high)
roryc69: shows [Th Td] (a flush, Ace high)
HESCMIN collected 3372 from pot
roryc69 collected 3371 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6743 | Rake 0
Board [6c Ac Qc Tc Jc]
Seat 1: priceman folded before Flop
Seat 2: HESCMIN showed [As 2c] and won (3372) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: MrMRI folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: pageup folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: roryc69 showed [Th Td] and won (3371) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: jlc30001 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Flygirl (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Sandbagger (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: McG369 folded before Flop (didn't bet)



Hand 3

PokerStars Game #2901540166: Tournament #14302906, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII
(100/200) - 2005/10/26 - 21:43:10 (ET)
Table '14302906 2' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: butrflynlamb (5090 in chips)
Seat 2: roryc69 (9768 in chips)
Seat 3: Pimp_I_Am (6280 in chips)
Seat 4: Dgrilli (1870 in chips)
Seat 6: Jeronemo (5565 in chips)
Seat 7: 19cap (4882 in chips)
Seat 8: Tulsan2 (4630 in chips)
Seat 9: Eagle023 (2415 in chips)
butrflynlamb: posts the ante 25
roryc69: posts the ante 25
Pimp_I_Am: posts the ante 25
Dgrilli: posts the ante 25
Jeronemo: posts the ante 25
19cap: posts the ante 25
Tulsan2: posts the ante 25
Eagle023: posts the ante 25
Eagle023: posts small blind 100
butrflynlamb: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to roryc69 [Ah Kc]
roryc69: raises 400 to 600
Pimp_I_Am: folds
Dgrilli: folds
Jeronemo: calls 600
Eagle023 said, "enough of this over the top sh!t"
butrflynlamb said, "it was a good call"
19cap: folds
Tulsan2: folds
Eagle023: calls 500
butrflynlamb: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kd Tc 9s]
Eagle023: checks
roryc69: bets 1000
Jeronemo: calls 1000
Eagle023: folds
*** TURN *** [Kd Tc 9s] [As]
roryc69: bets 8143 and is all-in
Jeronemo: calls 3940 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Kd Tc 9s As] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roryc69: shows [Ah Kc] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Jeronemo: shows [Ac Qd] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Jeronemo collected 12080 from pot
Pimp_I_Am said, "vnh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12080 | Rake 0
Board [Kd Tc 9s As Jd]
Seat 1: butrflynlamb (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: roryc69 showed [Ah Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 3: Pimp_I_Am folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Dgrilli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Jeronemo showed [Ac Qd] and won (12080) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 7: 19cap folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Tulsan2 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Eagle023 (small blind) folded on the Flop



Now anyone that says there is no such thing as luck, please come watch me play:D
I don't mean for this post to be just about bad beats but I really don't think I'm playing badly. If anyone can find anything wrong with how I played these please say!

Sh1t like this really makes me want to give up this online bollox. Im not enjoying it and I'm not making enough profit to make it worthwhile. The only reason I 'play' is boredom....

AmarilloFats

roryc wrote:

Now anyone that says there is no such thing as luck, please come watch me play:D

Hey roryc.
Looks like your going through a bad run of luck..But if you continue to seek evidence and argue that you're an unlucky player(Person) you'll end up convinced of your inherent bad luck....And bitter about the game..
you are most probably thinking about all those times you got all in as 80% fav and lost..You're replaying in your head again and again...More convinced of your horrible luck...You can't wait to collect more DAMNING evidence to confirm that you've been shafted....."look told ya so"

roryc wrote:

roryc69 said, "here comes 9 or 5, fcuking guarantee"

That's horribly negative..self fullfilling pessimism...How the hell can u win!!!It's like that priest in father ted that kicks doors and walls and stuff..

Best of "luck" with it...Its poker's biggest challenge..Alan Schoonmaker has some good posts on two+two..psychology section..

hotspur

roryc wrote:

Sh1t like this really makes me want to give up this online bollox. Im not enjoying it and I'm not making enough profit to make it worthwhile. The only reason I 'play' is boredom....

As someone who has studied online poker players I can tell you that those players who play primarily to relieve boredom / relieve stress / relieve lonliness or isolation tend not to be winning players. They usually lose long term, but yet these are the people who become addicted to playing. If you're not enjoying it then maybe you should do something else, there are plenty of other immersive computer based games one can play that are not stressful, don't cost you money, and don't make you feel cr*p when you lose.

Iago

yeah like Rome Total War or FM2006...

actually both of those make me feel crap when I lose particularly when some upstart Gaul savage rips through my legions :mad:

think I'll stick to the poker.

Anyway Rory it's not bad luck, just variance, see the bottom line of my sig below it'll all come good in the end as long as you keep making the right decisions.

DapperGent

hotspur wrote:

If you're not enjoying it then maybe you should do something else, there are plenty of other immersive computer based games one can play that are not stressful, don't cost you money, and don't make you feel cr*p when you lose.

I would agree. If you've been playing for awhile and you're still not in possession of good degree of fatalism and cynicism then poker is just going to break your heart. Also I recommend World of Warcraft.

Of course bad beats and bad runs will hurt but the sting shouldn't continue to be fresh forever and it certainly shouldn't get worse over time.

I don't believe in luck but one thing I certainly believe is that if you sit down to play and think you're going to lose, you're going to fúcking lose.

A decent break from poker every so often can work wonders too, I find it helps to rediscover why you liked it in the first place. I am one who never plays well when I'm not enjoying myself, one reason (among a litany of better ones ) why I could never become a pro.

Don't let poker assume an importance in your life that it shouldn't. It's a game. Though it can be a profitable and insanely enjoyable one. Never ever let your own personal self-esteem be dependant on your poker results, that's a rocky road to nowhere.

roryc

DapperGent wrote:

A decent break from poker every so often can work wonders too, I find it helps to rediscover why you liked it in the first place. I am one who never plays well when I'm not enjoying myself, one reason (among a litany of better ones ) why I could never become a pro.

Don't let poker assume an importance in your life that it shouldn't. It's a game. Though it can be a profitable and insanely enjoyable one. Never ever let your own personal self-esteem be dependant on your poker results, that's a rocky road to nowhere.

I actually did take a BIG break off poker there, about six weeks in fact. Thought I was just on a bad run.... Only came back a few weeks ago to find that its a whole lot worse. I've studied my play, I've had a friend watch me play, and the only verdict that I'm hearing is, I'm unlucky, it's a bad run, it'll even out..... Whether it is just an abnormally long stretch of bad luck, or if I am simply 'unlucky' either way it's stressing me out so..........

I think the best thing for me to do is just stop playing online, and stick to playing live as a HOBBY. It's only over the last few days that I have realised that I NEVER liked playing online, and I enjoyed playing poker a LOT more when I was just a student learning the ropes... ahhh the days when I was the Freeroll King!

Anyway thanks for the advice everyone, I think I'm gonna give the online a boot and stick to the odd fitz game.... until Vegas next summer!

ionapaul

Last night in the Fitz I had built up a nice big stack before the break and expected to do well in the freezeout period (I usually do better here than in rebuy situations). After being rivered twice to reduce my stack size by 2/3rds, I got into another all in situation in front, but was in such ill humour after the two suckouts that I honestly expected to be rivered again...a J appeared on the river and sucked-out I was! Sometimes it really seems you make your own luck, good or bad...I know from experience if I play and I'm not 'up for it', I will have a miserable time and head home early and with an empty wallet.

hotspur

DapperGent wrote:

Don't let poker assume an importance in your life that it shouldn't.

Also I recommend World of Warcraft.

Importance that should be reserved for World of Warcraft yes?

I've never played WOW myself but knowing others who play it I reckon it's probably the most addictive game that's ever been developed. In fact I'd say that this game has single handedly cost online poker hundreds of thousands of devoted players over the past year or so.

If WOW doesn't do it for you Rory then I'd try heroin, I've visited lots of drug treatment centres over the past year and the clients all seemed to like it a lot, might be worth checking out.

pm me for 30% rakeback on heroin deals

califano

roryc wrote:

*** FLOP *** [Kd 2s 4c]
roryc69 said, "here comes 9 or 5, fcuking guarantee"


The only reason I 'play' is boredom....

I think these two things above are definately having a bearing on your game for the worse, especially your chatting.

I suggest you try playing without chatting. Dont even type 'nh', dont respond to others congrats absolutely nothing. But especially dont chat to type something like you typed above. Total negativity that is and its not good. Chatting is showing others your feelings and chatting brings these feelings out more. You need to supress your feelings playing online so this is why you need to give up your chat. Ok playing live is different chat away there but dont chat playing online its not doing you any good. Im certain if you stopped chatting your form and profit will improve and im not talking about trying it for just 2-3 days. Dont chat while playing for a month and come back and tell me i was wrong.
And dont say "chatting makes me feel better" because this is not true, quite the opposite in fact.


Boredom is a bad motive for playing online poker. Like ionapaul says you need to be 'up for it' to have a better chance of playing well.

roryc

Yeh I try not to chat much, but sometimes I can't help it! That time I was actually saying it for the benefit of a friend of mine who was watching. He had been watching me for about an hour whilst also playing himself, and was in shock to say the least!

To add insult to injury I just realised the hand that really finished it for me. It was about 5 minutes after the hands I've already shown...

down to 4 in 45player MTT
Anyway I get JJ
go all in (my usual JJ play)
called by 78diamonds ....because they were soooted!

Flop KK4
Turn 8
River 8

Needless to say an innocent stapler that happened to be nearby at the time, is no more. And my computer mouse is also a little bashed up.....

Chalk up another one on the list! That was about 5 minutes before I wrote the post, I was a... bit annoyed!

Really though I think I'm just going to finish with the online altogether. I really think it's just a bit of a joke! Thanks for the advice and 'good luck' with this online 'poker' if thats what you want to call it...........

5starpool

ionapaul wrote:

Last night in the Fitz I had built up a nice big stack before the break and expected to do well in the freezeout period (I usually do better here than in rebuy situations). After being rivered twice to reduce my stack size by 2/3rds, I got into another all in situation in front, but was in such ill humour after the two suckouts that I honestly expected to be rivered again...a J appeared on the river and sucked-out I was! Sometimes it really seems you make your own luck, good or bad...I know from experience if I play and I'm not 'up for it', I will have a miserable time and head home early and with an empty wallet.

I couldn't believe that hand when it happened. I could understand you playing with A9 as you were relatively shortstacked, but the guy who called an all in bet with A8s? That was mindboggling. I think the guy with the JJ played it wrong too, but he had the best hand going in esp with 2 aces dead. The amount of times the river killed people on table 1 last night was just criminal I though. Some bad poker being played all in all by some inhabitants of the table though I won't mention what seats.

DapperGent

hotspur wrote:

Importance that should be reserved for World of Warcraft yes?

I've never played WOW myself but knowing others who play it I reckon it's probably the most addictive game that's ever been developed. In fact I'd say that this game has single handedly cost online poker hundreds of thousands of devoted players over the past year or so.

It is a fantastic game and can leech an awful lot of your time. I personally haven't found it addictive so to speak though it definately can be for some. Brilliant fun though!

For me the most addictive games ever were Championship Manager (Now Football Manager) and Civilisation. Civilisation was just nuts I just ended up not sleeping. I remember Iain Banks saying that he had to break his Civ 3 disc or he wouldn't have been able to write anymore books.

ionapaul

Civ IV is out in a few weeks. Eek! Addiction, here I come

Imposter

I've not played Champ man or Civ since I found poker. I must dust them off again.

hotspur

It may be apocryphal but a couple of years ago is I heard there was an article in which it said that Championship Manager was implicated in 15% of Spanish divorce cases