has the boss lost his mind??

audge

Hey, I posted this thread a few weeks ago...

I am hoping you can help me with an enquiry regarding payment.
Myself, and a friend worked in sales, I worked for an event guide mag, he worked for Car mag, but both companies are run by the same guy, and we where paid by the same company.
We both tendered our resignation on Wednesday 5th October 2005, and as is customary in target driven sales position, and due to the fact that we had both been employed by the company for only 7 weeks, did not work any notice, but finished at the end of the day.

I have been informed that I will receive payment for all days worked from 28th Sep until day of the departure, and this will be paid into my account on Friday 21st October. However, my friend has been informed that he will receive no payment as he did not work a period of notice.

What are his rights concerning this matter. It was not explained to him at the time that a specific length of notice was required, or that he would forfeit payment should he not work a certain period of notice.
Also, I was of the belief that once employed with a company for less then 13 weeks, neither the employee, or the employer is required by law to give any notice when deciding to terminate a contract.

Any help that you can give me regarding this matter would be much appreciated"



I recieved my pay slip from my old employer yesterday, I recieved payment for everything I was due, which was great, however, my friend did not recieve any of the commision he accumulated during his employment with the company.

He then sent the company owner an email, refering to the various relevant legislations, and questioned him as to why he had not recieved commision, and when would he be recievning it.

The boss rang him immediately, and actually said "we where good enough to give your lazy ass a job, and this is how you thank us"
Ha ha ha, sorry, but I have to laugh, this guy is the ownder and operator of 7 major publications, I cant believe he actually said that.
He basically informed my boyfriend that as he did not give proper notcie - he considers 4 weeks to be proper notice, despite the fact that my friend was only with the company for 7 weeks - that he is in breach of contract, and should my friend decide to pursue the matter of outstanding payment, he will pursue a breach of contract suit!

He also informed my friend that he could drag this issue out for years.

Please, tell me this is not normal behaviour... tell me the boss has obviously lost his mind, or forgotten to take his happy pills.....

What action can my friend take? We both worked for the same company, we both left on the same day, and yet I recieved full payment and he did not!

old_lady

Wow, this does not sound at all right. I cannot speak on the matter of breach of contract, but if you recieved payment, and your friend did not, I assume you have a clear cut case of discrimination ??? No?

[Jackass]

Contact your solicitor. You can use the fact that you were paid and not him as reference, aswell as the employment legislation on your side (according to you, im not familuar with it.)

I don't know how easy/difficult it would be to get the money out of him, you just have to think is it worth chasing up and also is your case strong enough to risk solicitor fees.

I would imagine if you are in the right, your ex-employer would be responsable for your legal fees as it was a step you had to take to recieve your rightfull payment, and if he had just paid you in the first place ...etc.

But visit a solicitor and they will give you info on your rights, how easy/difficult it will be to get your money, how long it would all take and will help you decide wheter to follow it up.

I think cosultation fees are free. That's something you can ask over the phone.

Good luck.

audge

I refere you to the piece of legislation shown below, taken from the Payment of Wages Act.

"An employer may not withhold payment for wages or holidays because an
employee hasn't worked out their notice. Wages and holiday pay are earned
based on time worked."


"under the terms of the Minimum Notice Act, there is no requirement for an employee or an
employer to provide notice for service of less than 13 weeks provided that
there is nothing specified in a contract of employment set down by the
employer to do so. If the employer still refuses to pay dues (as per your
original query), a complaint may be made to the Rights Commissioners under
the Payment of Wages Act to recoup money owed."

[Jackass]

Why don't you make a complaint to the rights commisioners so?

audge

We have, but it looks like the boss id right, in that he can drag this out.
at the end of the day we are talking about approximately €600 outstanding pay, which may not sound like a lot, however, my friend has rent and bills to pay, and honestly cannot afford to be without this money, we just want to resolve the matter as soon as is possible!

RainyDay

Contact these guys before you go the expense of engaging a solicitor.

homeOwner

Take him to small claims court - he has to appear if summonsed and it doesnt cost you anything. The law is clearly on your side.

He cant drag it out in scc, you both show up, you tell your side, he tells his, the judge decides.

RainyDay

homeOwner wrote:

Take him to small claims court - he has to appear if summonsed and it doesnt cost you anything. The law is clearly on your side.

He cant drag it out in scc, you both show up, you tell your side, he tells his, the judge decides.

The Small Claims Court doesn't deal with employment matters - From Guide to Small Claims Court

To be
eligible to use the procedure, you, the
"consumer" must have bought the goods or
services (or the service) for private use from
someone selling them in the course of business.
The procedure is not available for use by one
business person against another.

snappieT

homeOwner wrote:

Take him to small claims court - he has to appear if summonsed and it doesnt cost you anything. The law is clearly on your side.

He cant drag it out in scc, you both show up, you tell your side, he tells his, the judge decides.

Also it's not free. There is a nominal fee of approx. €13

AARRRGH

DubGuy wrote:

Why don't you make a complaint to the rights commisioners so?

Word of warning: I have been up before the rights commissioner before (prosecuting a previous employer.)

The rights commissioner is kind of useless. The employer does not have to give you the money owed after the hearing takes place. They are supposed to, but if they don't, nothing happens... So don't get your hopes up too high!

It's the same as the statement a employer is supposed to give you a P45 when you leave your job. Yes, they are supposed to. But if they don't, nothing happens.

AARRRGH

audge wrote:

We have, but it looks like the boss id right, in that he can drag this out.
at the end of the day we are talking about approximately €600 outstanding pay, which may not sound like a lot, however, my friend has rent and bills to pay, and honestly cannot afford to be without this money, we just want to resolve the matter as soon as is possible!

What does your contract say regarding notice, probation peroid and commission?

audge

RainyDay wrote:

Contact these guys before you go the expense of engaging a solicitor.

Thanks, we have got all our advice from these guys, they have been a big help!

audge

dublindude wrote:

What does your contract say regarding notice, probation peroid and commission?

Relevant information found under the "Remuneration" heading in the contract.


"The company reserves the right to amend the basis of payment in future. If it does so you will be notified in advance. If you leave the employment of the company, your final payment (if applicable) and P45 will be issued in accordance with the company's normal payment cycle. Any commission payments are payable subject to continuing employment and are paid at the discretion of the company.

Under the "Notice of termination" heading, there is no mention of non payment of commission in any way, shape or form."

entemp informed us that a company must be clear in its intention so the contract should read
"in the even of breach of contract, the employee will not recieve commision/holiday pay accumulated" or something like that, basically, they need to tell you wither "yes you will" or "no you wont" recieve commision, but cannot say it is at their discretion as it is not clear where the eomplyee stands, or what they can expect.

onedmc

This is a classic non payment of wages issue. It happen and you need to talk to a Rights Commisioner.

Contact the labour relations commisioner and fill out the form (dont know what its called). The will also give you some advice. No need for a solicitor yet as its likely that he will charge you more than you are owed.

audge

Hey, does anyone know of a fast route to resolving this matter, money is tight and I dont think my friend can afford to drag this through the courts!!!

dahooligan

It's a bit of a rocky road venture there young lady. If you go through a solicitor I'd presume it'd be resolved a bit quicker than going through the Labour Relations Court - but then you run the risk of it going belly up and your friend being stuck with the legal costs.

I don't know of anything he/she could do apart from fill out that stupid form and wait a lifetime for someone to uncover it, read it, file it, find it again, read it and pass it on to someone else to file... you see where I'm going here!

Unless anyone else has any bright ideas about speeding the process up... a tenner here, handshake there maybe?!

copacetic

audge wrote:

Relevant information found under the "Remuneration" heading in the contract.


"The company reserves the right to amend the basis of payment in future. If it does so you will be notified in advance. If you leave the employment of the company, your final payment (if applicable) and P45 will be issued in accordance with the company's normal payment cycle. Any commission payments are payable subject to continuing employment and are paid at the discretion of the company.

Under the "Notice of termination" heading, there is no mention of non payment of commission in any way, shape or form."

entemp informed us that a company must be clear in its intention so the contract should read
"in the even of breach of contract, the employee will not recieve commision/holiday pay accumulated" or something like that, basically, they need to tell you wither "yes you will" or "no you wont" recieve commision, but cannot say it is at their discretion as it is not clear where the eomplyee stands, or what they can expect.

does the bit you quoted not cover this? my understanding of "Any commission payments are payable subject to continuing employment and are paid at the discretion of the company.
is that it is clear if you left being owed commision that you wouldn't get it, the 'discretion' bit is when you are still working for them.

still the fact that you got yours and your friend didn't might be something you can use. Out of interest why would you and your friend not just give some notice? seems like a pretty crappy thing to do to me - obviously the guy is pretty pissed off, surprised he is being so petty though.

audge

daveym wrote:

does the bit you quoted not cover this? my understanding of "Any commission payments are payable subject to continuing employment and are paid at the discretion of the company.
is that it is clear if you left being owed commision that you wouldn't get it, the 'discretion' bit is when you are still working for them.

still the fact that you got yours and your friend didn't might be something you can use. Out of interest why would you and your friend not just give some notice? seems like a pretty crappy thing to do to me - obviously the guy is pretty pissed off, surprised he is being so petty though.

You are right, we should have given notice, and I have always given previous employers the correct amount of notice in the past. In my defense, sales is very much a mind game, when I started with the company, another chap, we'll call him alan, started with me, he stayed with the company for about 2 weeks and then walked out and never came back, I was shocked by this, but no one else appeared to be. it was then that manager said "ah this kind of thing happens all the time, sales is target driven, so when someone decides they want to go. they go, because there is no incentive for them anymore". I thouht about what she said and it made sense to me.
I also had a conversation with a senior dept member when I was offered a position with the company I am with now, they needed me to start immediately, and I told her this, she told me not to worry about it as no one ever works any notice in sales.
I am not a stupid person, but I must be gullable because I took what she said as truth.
When I called the dept head aside and told her I had been offered another position, she offered me extra money etc to stay, and asked me when the company needed me to start, I told her, and she just asked that I stay with them till the end of the week to think about things. So thats how it was worded and thats what happened!! Except obviously I decided not to stay. I did give a ltter tendering my resignation immediately, and I also emailed afterward to explain my decision to the company and apologise for any inconvienence caused! (apologies for spelling mistakes, i am very tired!)

copacetic

sounds like you did all you could really, did you friend do the same?
maybe this is why you were treated differently?

can't say I know much about sales anyway, if my line of work 1-3 months notice is the norm, but in the states it's only a week, so it does vary..