Should i buy a SCSI HDD?

The Troll

I'm considering buying a new hard drive and for my desktop(Dell 8400) and was weighing up the options between a SCSI drive(37GB) and a 300GB SATA drive. I assume that all data should be stored on my current SATA drive and all my apps and OS instaleld on the SCSI???

Would i also need to buy a SCSI card? Does that slot into a regular PCI slot?

Thx.

SouperComputer

it depends on what models you are comparing exactly. Not all HD's are created equal. The latency on 10 & 15K SCSI is good, as is the reduced CPU time. SATA has gained ground recently, but SCSI still has a slight edge at the top.

checkout www.storagereview.com for comparisons of drives.

You will need a SCSI card, you can pick one up on ebay el-cheapo.

Like many on boards, ive been building systems here for others for a long time and found that a modern SCSI drive has the edge. I moved from SCSI for a while and regretted it.

The Troll

Do SCSI drives have different connections to a regular IDE drive? Also, does it increase application speed? I'm not au fait at all with hardware components as I'm from a software dev background. I assume the SCSI card just fits into a PCI slot like a firewire card or any other PCI card?

SouperComputer

totally different interface, totally difference connector and cables. Most SCSI cards can take 15+ drives.

Speed difference depends on the two drives and cards you are comparing. SCSi goes back to 1985 AFAIK. Needless to say, a drive from that eire would be possibly slower than a 10Mb lan connection! Have a look on storage review to see a comparison of drives. Heres one i made earlier

http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/suite_v4.php?typeID=10&testbedID=4&osID=6&raidconfigID=1&numDrives=1&devID_0=277&devID_1=272&devID_2=259&devID_3=293&devID_4=264&devCnt=5


You should get an older U160 card, even is you have a U320 drive as you wont approach anywhere near the full bandwith of the bus unless using multiple drives. Not to mention that 32bit PCI is pressed hard enough with U160.

SCSI comes on a PCI card, as you say, just like a firewire card:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Adaptec-29160N-U160-SCSI-Card-free-HDD-Cable_W0QQitemZ6814826600QQcategoryZ90716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

good card, but old, slow HD, even though it is SCSI

see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scsi

stevenmu

For most users a modern SATA (or even SATA II) drive with NCQ and a good sized cache (I think 8Mb is still standard with 16Mb being fairly common), the speed difference will be negligible. Common apps (office, internet etc) won't really gain at all and even heavier apps (IDEs doing large builds, AV editing etc) won't gain a noticeable amount. SCSI really only comes into it's own for things like heavy file sharing or large database access. The other thing SCSI is good for is reliability under heavy use conditions, but again that's not something most users need. Imho you'd be better off with the much larger SATA drive.

edit: Altough it would really depend on what you'll be using the drice for, if it's just OS and apps like you mention I don't think SCSI will be of as much benefit as the extra space of an SATA may be.

ressem

You have 50 pin, 68 pin, 80pin and the new serial scsi standards, SAS having limited backward compatibility with SATA, though havn't seen it myself..

Most drives on sale today will be with 68 or 80 pin connectors.
Probably you will be looking for a 32 bit PCI controller card (Stay away from pci-X) with an internal 68pin connector (called SCSI wide, Ultra 2 Wide, Ultra 160, Ultra 320) and a 68 pin internal U320 drive.

The 50 pin cards will have your drive running in legacy performance mode, and you'd need a 50 to 68 pin connector. But they're a lot cheaper.
Cheapest new 68 pin I've seen from a known manufacturer is
LSI 20160B U160, 1Ch, PCI 32 HBA for stg£68.15 Inc VAT from scan.
And it's pretty limited.
Don't see any at komplett.

If your OS is installed it will speed up those small delays in windows, in conjunction with a good HDD.

The Troll

Basically all I use my PC for is general software packages such as Office, fiel sharing programs, browsing an online poker. Dont use any processor hungry apps such as AV editing suites.

So the difference between these two(the way I'm using the drive) will be negligible???

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=311394&cks=SER for SCSI

and

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309277&cks=SER

Thanks again peeps.

SouperComputer

compare the two on storage review and have a look.

My use of my pc is not demanding TBH, but the general responsiveness of SCSI with a good drive is amazing. Stats cant really account for it.

This is what i missed most about SCSI, and at that stages I had tried raptors etc. Windows loads in a flash, fragmentation does not cause as much as an issue and apps open in a flash. Even my wife noticed the difference between my older, previous generation Seagate cheetah (circa 1999) and a 76Gb Raptor and constatnly complained that she had to "wait" for MS Word to open. (wait menaing 6-7 secs rather than 2 or 3!) The 10K V I have now is even nippier, despite being slowed by my ageing U80 card.

I got my current Maxtor Atlas 76Gb 10K V off a guy on boards for 90euro, with 4years and 8 months swopout warranty remaining. Cant remember his nick though, if i think if it ill send you a PM

Throw up an add in the wanted section and see what turns up.

one more thing to consider.....Heat SCSI or indeed any 10k\15k drive will produce a lot. You will need a fan infront of the drive to keep it cool. 80mm @ 1750 RPM is fine just a "breeze" to keep the HDA temp low.

The Troll

Dear this is starting to sound more and more expensive. SCSI Card, SCSI drive and a new fan? How would i fit the fan?

commited

Go for a 10k Raptor, high speed & lower price.
Other way is to try to get everything second hand, SCSI stuff is surprisingly reasonable.

Capt'n Midnight

For space SCSI are a more expensive per GB than IDE/SATA
They are generally more reliable then IDE
you can hot swap scsi drives - but you need espensiv HW to do it and you can get some hot swap IDE cards if you search

Are SCSI faster than using multiple IDE drives for OS/Apps/Swapfile - especially when you use the price difference to buy a faster processor to handle the I/O (SCSI doesn't rely on the processor as much as IDE)

Or if you want speed - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/03/gigabyte_i-ram_ramdisk/ allegedly XP can boot in 13 seconds..

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/26/adtron_sata_flash_drive/
8GB for only €1,900 !