america right in what it's doing?

smoke.me.a.kipper

is the US right in the way it's responding to bin Laden, Taliban etc... in the wake of the WTC attacks.

tHE vAGGABOND

They have attacked innocent ppl b4, and they will do it again unless they are stopped..

hence we are stopping them

bugler

How are they responding? Afaik nothing concrete has taken place yet.The real response will be when action is taken.So for now, the only reasonable vote is an "Undecided" vote.

Manach

At the moment they seem to be in intel gathering phase.
If latter it means some air strikes and a ground presence, then I say yes.

But, I hope they target the correct parties involved, as there was a report on CNN last night of a possible Iraqi link.

Ivan

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?"

You think something this complex can be boiled down to something as simple as this? - They hurt us, so we in turn should hurt them? Then they decide, hey, they dont seem to be getting our message, lets do something drastic, and so on and so forth, until the conflict is escalated out of proportions. People have died, on both sides, we all need to take a step back and realise and accept this. We then need to look at our enemy and decide what to do next.

"If I was born where they were born, taught what they were taught, I'd believe what they believe" --- Abraham Lincoln

Dealing with the symptoms while completely ignoring the cause is not common sense - it is sillly, unnatural and borderline stuborn.

I think if :
A) America uses diplomacy, dispite the calls for bloodshed, to solve this problem I think there may be a chance to avoid a rather nasty, sustained conflict that neither side can win.

America decides to go in with both barrels blasting, Afghanistan declars a Jihad, american Nationals, and perhaps other nationals who follow the same religion, may take the calling even though they do not wish to, merely because their religion is rather strong when it comes to this topic. The Middle East/Far east polarises into Anti-American and Pro-American countries, China decides, well, we've been hovering on the brink of war for a while, lets go support our follow Anti-Americans. Mix it all together and you've got WW III.

Slightly pessimistic, perhaps even a little insane maybe? I dont know, the thought had crossed my mind, maybe I'm making too much of this, maybe things will sort themselves out, maybe we may actually gain something from this terrible atrocity. But then again all it takes is one person to say the wrong thing at the wrong time and kaboom, who knows where it might lead.

Remember - Atomic weapons are considered to be rather cheap on the foreign market, in or around $67 million dollars will buy you most of the necessary equipment to build a long-range nuclear missile. But then with so many willing to die for their cause, they could just walk into Washington D.C. and maybe several other cities at the same time and flip a switch....

On a completely different note, apparently Osama Bin Laden made $50 million on the stock market from the change in prices in air plane stocks....not that he doesnt already have enough, but all he needs now is another $17 million.


"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
--- Muhatma Ghandi

azezil

Bin Laden guilty or not is been used as a scape goat for america's anger... after such an attrosity they need someone to blame n he's as good a target as any!

As for what they're doing... well realisticly what are they're options? bombing afganistan would be pointless as there's nothing to bomb!, any ground assault from a foreign army in the past has ended in disaster.

So they're only option or possibly options is as they have stated 'a war on terrisim'. Covert op's, get in quitely n get him out... the alternative as i see it is to attack those who support terrisim e.g. afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Serria and we may well put Russia n the US in that!

A direct attack on these countries may please the ppl of america, but hopefully that won't be the case, realisticly it looks like they'll send in THE A TEAM!!! lol but will the american citizin's be satisfied with covert op's which could take many years to get little results?

I think not but hopefully they'll just have to put up n shut up!
I suppose in a way its lucky that Bush is fresh into the seat, were it near time for re-election he may take more drastic action which would undoubtedly led to war...

pepperkin

Originally posted by azezil

"A direct attack on these countries may please the ppl of america, but hopefully that won't be the case, realisticly it looks like they'll send in THE A TEAM!!! lol but will the american citizin's be satisfied with covert op's which could take many years to get little results?"

Well, in a country full of about, what, 284.5 million people, I can't speak for all Americans, as each and every one of us stubbornly persists in having our own view (imagine!) I can only speak for THIS american citizen (being me).
I for one would be perfectly happy with covert ops aimed at bin Laden, and ONLY bin Laden, should he turn out to be guilty. I have posted several times about my view of huge full scale attack on Afghanistan. I personally think it is useless, pointless (in the eyes of finding bin Laden pointless, he's found a hidey hole far from Kabul, and wouldn't get hit anyway but thousands of innocent people would!) and a waste of time. If our esteemed *cough* Dubya decides to launch full scale war against Afghanistan, I will NOT support this decision...but tell me how to stop him? Do a strip tease on the White House lawn? Protests don't work....we found that out in Vietnam.

One thing I want to know, and I am happy to receive any input on this from anyone better informed. IS bin Laden guilty of this particular crime?
The media says he is, the gov't says he is, they're telling the Taliban he is...but where's the proof? The Taliban claims they will hand him over on a platter once the USA proves that he is guilty, so why is the USA dimplomatic team busy showing "big american ass" and not showing PROOF to the Taliban, to US residents, to residents all over the world, about WHY they claim he is guilty?
Not that I dispute that he COULD have, in fact I'm pretty sure he had a hand in it, but I don't condemn until given good reason. Unlike most, I suppose, I still subscribe to the "innocent until proven guilty" rule that America pretends to believe in...

I am not screaming for blood, ANY blood will do. I am not screaming for vengeance against all middle easterners or the general afghani people. I do think the Taliban needs to be put out of power, but not because they simply have no more civilians to be in power OVER.

More than 50 countries lost people in the WTC crash. This shows me that the attack was on more than just "America" this goes deeper. In my own personal opinion (which isn't worth a damn), the mastermind behind this was making a statement, making a point, trying to score one on the american public/the world, in my view this goes way beyond a little grudge match. Do I think there will be more "statements" from our friendly neighbourhood terrorists? Damn right I do...I just hope it's not on my street.

So in essence, do I think the US is doing the right thing? Well, I think they're doing the right thing in NOT attacking yet....I hope they continue this. I think the USA is doing the right thing by asking the Taliban to hand over bin Laden. (But in not showing this supposed proof, they're screwing up.) I say 'they' because I refer to the gov't. Not myself. I do not agree with attacking any country over this, only the guilty. I will admit that I want to watch the guilty one fry, dance the electric chair dance! Call me a ghoul, fine. I watched the smoke from the Pentagon rise from my front yard. I DO have a streak of rebellion and anger, I just prefer to aim it at the right people...

I want to remind Europeans to please recall that not all Americans are fat, lazy, and stupid and out to bomb everyone. Hard as that may be to believe.
I still agree with something Gandalf said in another thread about Arabs being more human that Americans....if America rushes out and bombs and kills 500 Afghanis, what makes us better than the terrorists? Nothing. So WHY DO IT?

Like I said in one of my other posts....I'm American. Born and raised. But more importantly and far more permanently, I'm human...and I support human survival, be they black, white, red, brown, orange, or green. The life of an Afghani child should be protected and harbored just as much as any American child. Or Irish child. Or Russian. And so on.

My deepest sympathy to anyone who has lost a loved one, in ANY country....

And in memory of ALL whom have died as a result of terrorist attack...past, present, or future, of ALL races.


pepperkin

azezil

Ok thanks for clearing that up matey!

but to get back to my point, if it was found out that let's say Iraq provided the funding or training for the pilots who flew the planes do u believe that Iraq should be made to pay too??

And of course they'd resist, what then, u say u want the guilty parties to fry, so if they resist how far should you go to capture them??? if it came down to it n bombing the crap outa Iraq was the only way to get the guilty parties to justice would u condone that!?

I don't want it to seem like i'm picking on u r anything i'm just curious!

pepperkin

Hi azezil

"if it was found out that let's say Iraq provided the funding or training for the pilots who flew the planes do u believe that Iraq should be made to pay too??"

The pilot hijackers were trained in the USA how to fly and it's suspected/surmised they practiced with simulators. Not that that answers your question, I just wanted to point that out! And without needing to know how to take off or land, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist....but several of the suspected hijackers held valid pilots licenses, issued in Florida I believe. Unsure of which state....THINK it was Florida

And no I wouldn't condone bombing Iraq (or any other country) if that were the only way to get the guilty. Hell that's practically the only way to get bin Laden right now, is to turn the entire country into a wasteland and hope you hit him somewhere...and I completely disagree with that. To me, that's like killing someone to get rid of cancer. Well, the cancer is gone...that's for sure.
I think the US gov't could take a lesson from cats. Wait in hiding, and pounce when the prey comes out to drink...patience, patience.

Yes I want to see the guilty fry! But not so much that I will condone the taking of lives uninvolved with it. Not to mention this is such a huge operation at this time, the guilty to fry would wipe out electricity in most of the Eastern Seaboard...best to start at the top (whomever that is) and work on down. Take out the main funding, the "supply line" and work from there.

The newspaper headline today in the Washington Post screams "Taliban refuses to hand over bin Laden!" Well, I don't blame them, I wouldn't hand someone over without verifiable proof, either. Neither would the USA extradite someone without proof that they are guilty as charged. I wish I knew what the gov't here is playing at....

Put put this American on the record as steadfastly AGAINST war against Afghanistan, Iraq, pick a country....I'm only in favor of bringing those responsible for the deaths in NYC, PA, and DC to justive (and wherever else they hit in the meantime...)

I also wonder if bush really MEANS a full on war against terrorism...does that mean the IRA needs to worry? I hope so. Or does he figure "that's Irelands problem!" Well, maybe so, but....agh, another subject entirely.

Religion causes too many problems....ban organized religion! (yeah, like that will ever happen.)

pepperkin

azezil

Ya i was just wondering about the whole IRA situ myself... but they're like yesterdays news now! for the moment ne way.

In all fairness they have been very quite lately, i'm not sayin they're doin nothing but the loyalists have been actin up alot recently but thats for another thread.....

Nagilum

900 million? Not exactly.

Omega_Weapon

American is doing the right thing, even though military action is, I think, enevitable.

Asok

The U.s has shown great restraint for a nation hurting so deeply they are concidering all their actions very carefully however i do think that the now proposed military action is a good idea as it shall show that they will no longer stand for these attacks e.g 1 mosquito draws a little blood barely noticed but when a swarm draws alot you will kill as many of the swarm as possible