PPP oddness

ntlbell

Just wondering if anyone has came across this

I was holding JJ another player goes all-in, I call where it shows "Your best hand" before the first card came on the flop it showed a full house jacks full of 3's and that's exactly what was the result by the end of the hand?

fade2black

Weird and controversial...

mewso

I've seen that thing with the 3s many times on tribecca. You are all-in and just as the flop comes down it says I have a pair of 3s or something. I thinkg it's probably something to do with the code that figures out your hand with the first assumption being 33 before the analysis completes.

NickyOD

ntlbell wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has came across this

I was holding JJ another player goes all-in, I call where it shows "Your best hand" before the first card came on the flop it showed a full house jacks full of 3's and that's exactly what was the result by the end of the hand?

Very strange indeed.

Amaru

Yeah this has been a problem, at least on VC, since early August. I was going to post a thread about it, but never got around to it. At the start, i thought it was showing my final hand before the cards had come out(very easy to do with a programming slip), but now it seems to be that its random hands that it "predicts".

a-k-47

ive also seen this on ppp, only when being moved tables in tourns. pair of 3's or 3 of kind 3 comes up??? an explanation from ppp would be nice ?... anyone wanna send em a mail

Fatboydim

Maybe it's some form of lag.

Scotty #

I've noticed this as well. It never has any bearing on the actual flop though

Corben Dallas

If this pops up every so often and the board plays out to what the *'best hand rank you (will) have' >does it point to the fact that the software predeals all opening hands and board in one go? or is the flop/ turn/ river truly random?

Does the software/system/server already have the flop,turn and river already sequenced and q'ed waiting to reveal after the players complete betting for each round.

or is the process random opening hands dealt, rerun calculation for flop, reset- rerun for turn, reset -rerun for river?

*Bit worrying if the server knows what the final card rank for each player already **
**obviously only in situations where players see 'best hand rank' comes up a prediction ie holding 33's, pre flop thingy says best hand is a set of 3's
>u hit a 3 somewhere on the board.
?

careca

Corben Dallas wrote:

If this pops up every so often and the board plays out to what the *'best hand rank you (will) have' >does it point to the fact that the software predeals all opening hands and board in one go? or is the flop/ turn/ river truly random?

Does the software/system/server already have the flop,turn and river already sequenced and q'ed waiting to reveal after the players complete betting for each round.

or is the process random opening hands dealt, rerun calculation for flop, reset- rerun for turn, reset -rerun for river?

*Bit worrying if the server knows what the final card rank for each player turns out as**
**obviously only in situations where plyers gets the best hand rank come up with prediction thing ie holding 33's pre flop thingy says best hnd set of 3's
>u hit a 3 somewhere on the board.
?

We should apply the same rules as the Fitz. ENGLISH ONLY PLEASE

The Troll

careca wrote:

We should apply the same rules as the Fitz. ENGLISH ONLY PLEASE

It's hardly Japanese he's speaking. Golly gosh what does "server" mean.

Amaru

Corben Dallas wrote:

If this pops up every so often and the board plays out to what the *'best hand rank you (will) have' >does it point to the fact that the software predeals all opening hands and board in one go? or is the flop/ turn/ river truly random?

Does the software/system/server already have the flop,turn and river already sequenced and q'ed waiting to reveal after the players complete betting for each round.

or is the process random opening hands dealt, rerun calculation for flop, reset- rerun for turn, reset -rerun for river?

*Bit worrying if the server knows what the final card rank for each player turns out as**
**obviously only in situations where plyers gets the best hand rank come up with prediction thing ie holding 33's pre flop thingy says best hnd set of 3's
>u hit a 3 somewhere on the board.
?

I would assume that this IS the method tribeca uses, and i wouldn't be surprised if all poker servers used this. My thinking on it would be this: before every hand, the cards are randomised using truely random algorithms, and then placed into a 52 card array(something that looks like a "number line" from primary school. From here the next 18 cards out can be seen, for 9 hands, then the burn card, then the flop turn and river(with burn cards). This would make absolutely no difference to us, as we can't see the contents of the array, and as long as the software doesn't tell us our hand strength before its dealt, then there's no problem(as of right now, the problem is only with showdowns, and the indicator often bears no relation to the flop). I very highly doubt that the cards are randomised right before each card is dealt.

In summary, i'm not sure why this is worrying. The server already knows what everybody else holds, and isn't this more damaging than knowing whats coming out?

impr0v

Amaru wrote:

I very highly doubt that the cards are randomised right before each card is dealt.

I remember reading here that the above is in fact the case. The cards are effectively continually shuffled using the rng and the top card, so to speak, is taken when needed.

I forget who posted it but the point they were making is that the exact moment you call makes a difference, i.e. the flop or turn or whatever could possibly have been completely different if you called a millisecond later or earlier, though obviously you have no control over it anyway.

It's all hearsay, so don't quote me on it.

Samba

So many tribecca RNG threads what happened, many people take some big hits over the weekend?

I have seen this happen myself, what it confirms are that the cards are pre-dealt, turn and river, which would lead me to believe that the rng is software based, not hardware. Which does give cause for concern.

I have said this a million times and the sooner they do it the better, publish their stats like pokeroom.com have done.

Samba

Corben Dallas

Careca ....
Maybe you would prefer some other language?
..... pls try harder.

----
Often wondered, as Samba has suggested, is the process (that PPP/tribeca/poker sites use) one run only (calculation) thru for all hands, flop, turn & river?
>Which might show up in glitches like the 'best hand available' -all cards already predetermined?

Or is there separate calculations done after hands are dealt, flop etc each stage, i.e. the server/host site never knows what cards are coming?

Anyone from PPP want to throw some light on this?

careca

Corben Dallas wrote:

Careca ....
Maybe you would prefer some other language?
..... pls try harder.

Sry, thought your post was v good until i read the last line

'obviously only in situations where plyers gets the best hand rank come up with prediction thing'

That completely threw me. No offence meant though.

PPP-Pit Boss

http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/si_fairness.php
This is how the RNG works.

Lag I would imagine. The cards are already dealt but the graphics have not yet shown on your screen so you see the result before you see the the cards down. I have played a hand or two and seen the river card before the rest. Always a pre-warning of a big freeze to come.

Amaru

Samba wrote:

I have seen this happen myself, what it confirms are that the cards are pre-dealt, turn and river, which would lead me to believe that the rng is software based, not hardware. Which does give cause for concern.

Why?

And what does the RNG have to do with a software glitch concerning text incorrectly being displayed?

mewso

I didn't explain my thoughts on this properly. This relates to the part of the screen on the bottom right corner which tells you what hand you have. I think the code that decides what you have (and it would be complex) has a start point for analysis and it may be 33 or something like that. It seems to inadvertantly show this before finishing the calculations and showing the correct hand. In all the times I have seen the 33 thing it has had no bearing on the hand I actually end up with so I do not think it has any bearing on the cards to come. Of course as above it will sometimes be right but rarely.
It doesn't concern me in the slightest.

Amaru

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

http://www.paddypowerpoker.com/si_fairness.php
This is how the RNG works.

Lag I would imagine. The cards are already dealt but the graphics have not yet shown on your screen so you see the result before you see the the cards down. I have played a hand or two and seen the river card before the rest. Always a pre-warning of a big freeze to come.

No, this is diffferent. Mostly the hand strength displayed isn't what your finishing hand ends up. It usually says "full house something something", which doesn't usually relate to your finishing hand. Also, it usually changes and corrects itself twice as the 2nd and 3rd cards are dealt on the flop.

Ste05

impr0v wrote:

The cards are effectively continually shuffled using the rng and the top card, so to speak, is taken when needed.

I forget who posted it but the point they were making is that the exact moment you call makes a difference, i.e. the flop or turn or whatever could possibly have been completely different if you called a millisecond later or earlier, though obviously you have no control over it anyway.

As far as I know this is the case. And from my reading of this original post. Your hand ranking was only revealed after you pressed call. At that exact millisecond, the RNG stopped and revealed all the cards, there was no more player actions to determine the rest of the cards, so the shuffle stopped and dealt out the 5 board cards, obviously the software just filled in this box before it revealed the board as usual, but I would still think everything is random.

Normally after the flop is dealt the cards continually shuffle and based on the millisecond of the players actions the next card is determined. Therefore the players actions determine the next card, making a pre-determined board impossible to predict until after all players have acted. In this case there was no more actions to make and so the board was dealt out.

I don't work for any of the sites, but this is my understanding of how the RNG works and could possibly explain this phenomenon (sp??).

EDIT: Just read through PPP's link, and the above doesn't seem to be how their RNG works anyway, but even though this certainly wouldn't worry me once the box is only showing what you have after you have acted

PPP-Pit Boss

Very odd. I will take this up with technical. Im sorry I clearly misunderstood. I will investigate.

Culchie

Amaru wrote:

No, this is diffferent. Mostly the hand strength displayed isn't what your finishing hand ends up. It usually says "full house something something", which doesn't usually relate to your finishing hand. Also, it usually changes and corrects itself twice as the 2nd and 3rd cards are dealt on the flop.

I've seen that as well.

I've also seen om ladbrokes before the second card has arrived, the status of your hand is displayed ...in my case "7 high" most of the time:) I think this is just lag ...however the tribeca thing is something different, as happens as Amaru says above

Culchie

PPP-Pit Boss wrote:

Very odd. I will take this up with technical. Im sorry I clearly misunderstood. I will investigate.

If it's any help, it's not just a recent happening, I noticed this months ago.

Corben Dallas

np Careca
last lines were gibberish
changed.

Samba

OK, Now this is even stranger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The following rules out the possiblity of lag.

I saw this again in a 1v1 stt about 2 minutes ago, I call all in to a short stack who has around 600 chips left, with A3o.


He has 98, I look down and see written "three of a kind 3's" Great I think, none come on the flop but there is an 8, hmm, maybe it's runner runner trip up.

I won the hand with a flush, my three being the club.

This happened on two occasions, where i was told i had x hand, come the river that was NOT the case.

Scotty #

Scotty # wrote:

I've noticed this as well. It never has any bearing on the actual flop though

Didn't you read this or didn't you believe me.

It has NO!! bearing on the flop or what your final hand is!!

ntlbell

Scotty # wrote:

Didn't you read this or didn't you believe me.

It has NO!! bearing on the flop or what your final hand is!!

???

Mine said Full House, Jacks full of three's and that's what the final hand was?

Marq

I might believe you if you stop shouting at me.

DapperGent

I dunno, the larger the print the more convincing the point.

Amaru

I was just impressed that it looked like he'd quoted himself!

Lafortezza

Amaru wrote:

I was just impressed that it looked like he'd quoted himself!

Deleted posts don't appear on the thread to non-mods

CoD

I have seen it, but I usually sometimes if i move tables in a MTT and it usually is 3 of a kind 3's. Then I dont get that hand or I dont even get cards as I was placed just infront of the button

Spiritus

I'm always convinced by shouting.

Scotty #

ntlbell wrote:

???

Mine said Full House, Jacks full of three's and that's what the final hand was?

Coincidence!!

Sorry for shouting earlier:D

ntlbell

Scotty # wrote:

Coincidence!!

Sorry for shouting earlier:D

Coincidence?

I don't think so

LAG is a more reasonable explanation

Scotty #

I'm certainly no expert on the subject but it looks to me more like a programming glitch than internet lag. Something to do with how that little box calculates your hand. It always says something to do with "three's" so if your hand happens to have something to do with "three's" then I would say thats a coincidence. Maybe this thread is in the wrong place?

Shortstack

In a non 'Doc' Moment, I think Scotty~ is right. I seem to remember very deja vu like seeing '3 of a kind 3's' a couple of times in the 'your best hand' window. Everyone seems to quote 3's on here.

I am never folding a 3 again.

If you raise me with 33 then FU!

PPP-Pit Boss

Actually we are working on it but I think the reoccurrance of three may be down to coincidence. And a quiet disconnect followed by packages arriving in the incorrect order may be responsible. Hold fast tech are looking at the thread for you. One way or the other this does not have any impact on you hand.

sikes

was playing a $5 MTT and got moved to another table and wasnt playing the hand yet i had a three of a kind of threes! have a screen shot that i will upload later for shizzles and giggles

PPP-Pit Boss

Excellent would you mind sending it directly to poker@paddypower.com? This would help a lot
Cheers

Amaru

I can attest to the presence of 3's in the hand strength indicator too, and i've seen this on both a VC and PPP account, which, coupled with the reports here, don't make me think its coincidence.

If its any help, i'm almost certain that this glitch arose when the new interface was installed, the one with the big cards and animations on the bet amounts. This went in around august if i'm not mistaken, which, as i've said, is right around when i started seeing it.

PPP-Pit Boss

Hmmm gremlins eh? Much appreciated guys. I will get to the bottom of it.

Culchie

Amaru wrote:

I can attest to the presence of 3's in the hand strength indicator too, and i've seen this on both a VC and PPP account, which, coupled with the reports here, don't make me think its coincidence.

If its any help, i'm almost certain that this glitch arose when the new interface was installed, the one with the big cards and animations on the bet amounts. This went in around august if i'm not mistaken, which, as i've said, is right around when i started seeing it.

I think it goes back further than that ....although I couldn't swear to it.

Tackle

Any chance of fixing the river card while you're at it ppp-pit boss? There seems to be a glitch that makes the board pair on the river whenever I'm all in on the turn with a straight.

Ah, don't mind me, just having a bad run.