Rant: Arthurs Quay Park, Roches and Dunnes Stores

Amazotheamazing

Not to sound bitter but what the **** was the planning behind the current layout of that quarter of town? The old Dunnes stores is ugly,obsolete dead space, as is the row of shops facing it (beside Martin's pub) behind Roches stores (currently used as storage for Roches). the garden centre section of Roches is similary a waste of good retail space.

My main gripe is that a proper development, facing the park could really add a vibrant section to the riverfront. The park itself is much safer since the cctv was installed and the bushes removed. This is a huge amenity currently being ignored by the city, it has everything the rest of the city seems to lack, ie a sense of space, natural light. The patio in front of the tourist centre would be perfect for buskers or whatever, and the weir and marina looks great from the riverwalk in the park.

The old Dunnes should knocked and a proper, attractive building built there, it is such a missed oppurtunity. Likewise with the derilict block of shops. We shouldn't be building new streets and ignoring this quarter of town.

spinalsly

i think they will redevelop this part of town as it is an ideal location, just beside the river. maybe after the bedford row development is completed

1huge1

With all the devolepment going on in limerick city at the moment it will only be a matter of time

sioda

Dunnes are never going to relinquish that old Building as they are afraid of Marks and Spencers movning Why do you think they still have the parkway site and as for Roches I wouldn't be suprised if they were the next business in Limerick to close

iguana

Afaik, Dunnes have announced that they are pulling out of the Parkway. They announced it to their staff about a month ago. It seems they didn't want to transfer old staff to the new store for fear of Mandate and Siptu insisting that those staff would not have to work on the 24-hour cycle.

So instead before announcing closure they offered staff the chance to move to the new store under a new contract. The majority chose to stay at the Parkway. Then they hired new staff for the new store under a 24 hour contract. Then they announced the closure of their Parkway store and that all remaining staff were to be let go.

1huge1

iguana wrote:

Afaik, Dunnes have announced that they are pulling out of the Parkway. They announced it to their staff about a month ago. It seems they didn't want to transfer old staff to the new store for fear of Mandate and Siptu insisting that those staff would not have to work on the 24-hour cycle.

So instead before announcing closure they offered staff the chance to move to the new store under a new contract. The majority chose to stay at the Parkway. Then they hired new staff for the new store under a 24 hour contract. Then they announced the closure of their Parkway store and that all remaining staff were to be let go.

sickened for those ppl at the parkway but im sure they wont have much of a problem finding a job at another dunnes

Amazotheamazing

I dunno guys, sure there's loads of building going on but what's actually going to fill all this new capacity? There are several large, empty shop units in town.

spinalsly

such as?

Amazotheamazing

The large unit up by Tait's clock, all of the new development on Gerald Griffin Street, The development near St. Mary's Cathedral, Nicholas Street, there's a few empty units at the top of William street too, some of Parnell street.

1huge1

Amazotheamazing wrote:

I dunno guys, sure there's loads of building going on but what's actually going to fill all this new capacity? There are several large, empty shop units in town.

name one

Amazotheamazing

I just did, and it's not an exhaustive list. Go around Parnell street, Mallow street, Tait's square, then go down to Nicholas St, a new building near the Abbey Bridge. I've already mentioned the empty units around the old Dunnes store, go up William street, and turn down towards St. John's, the new buildings there is empty, as is the square.

sceptre

sioda wrote:

Dunnes are never going to relinquish that old Building as they are afraid of Marks and Spencers movning

They also appear not to have a great deal of space in the new one - all the blokie clothes are still in the old one. Nuts and all as it seems but the retail space in Harvey's Quay upstairs isn't that extensive.

spinalsly

Amazotheamazing wrote:

I just did, and it's not an exhaustive list. Go around Parnell street, Mallow street, Tait's square, then go down to Nicholas St, a new building near the Abbey Bridge. I've already mentioned the empty units around the old Dunnes store, go up William street, and turn down towards St. John's, the new buildings there is empty, as is the square.

ya i remember seeing that huge space up by taits clock, thing is noone wants to put themselves up there as it is a quiet part of town, nice area though, the square looks very nice and the are has potential!

Amazotheamazing

Spinasly, the entire city has potential, it's realising the potential that's the problem.

mysterious

Units are been taken but some are slower than others , I heard that Taits corner are under some talks as to whether offices are now taken, though whats against this building is it a quiet area so naturally it will be tougher to attract businesses,

The Barrington's centre is now gettin more interest,
etc well I'd say its the supply is greater than demand in most of the developments

Most the riverside areas are very high demand, considering the size of the Riverpoint it has attracted retailers and companies nationally.

pukey

Arthurs Quay Park/Dunnes Stores

there's a guy in DIT bolton street doing his architecture thesis on this site this year. obviously won't be built but the studies they do can highlight alot of the problems in a particular area and propose solutions.

Amazotheamazing

So Summer comes around and the Park is safer but still as dead and lifeless as ever, green and brick, no colour, no working lights which make it a ghosttown afterdark, the awful railings still in place, cutting off from the city. It's strange because on days like Riverfest and Flugtag thing, it seemed pretty good, showed what we're missing by neglecting it so much.

It could be a rival for Eyre square (seriously) but instead it's closer to a vacant lot.

bullets

If I had my way.............

Rather than pouring money into brand new buildings I think
it would be nice if they allocated some money to try to spruce up or restore some of the older buildings in Limerick like the Victorian buildings around O'Connell Street.
Last time I noticed anything done to help these buildings was when Angelas Ashes
was being filmed. Shame to see them in such a sorry state.

After the original older buildings are looked after I would love to
see the old Dunnes area and William street re-developed.

There are some other buildings in the City that could do with a make over,
The Watergate flats look a lot better when they got a face lift be nice
to see other similar places get the same treatment.

~B

jay_haych

across the road from filmdrome on william st you have and empty newsoms. to the left of a "soon to b emptry" mccarthys furniture and the bookies to the left of that again is closing soon also. thats 3 big enough stores gone by the end of the year and no one is yet interested in the newsoms lot.

chrislimerick

rates is the problem here and the rent that is paid for these locations is very high a lot of people go to the likes of argos and the other super stores for stuff
as single retail units do not get the massive discounts the super stores do hense
the customer says i can get that cheaper in etc etc as all know the price of an item matters as for building around the city there is a building near the park hyde rd area that was built never had a tenant and has all its windows kicked in
there years now

sceptre

pukey wrote:

Arthurs Quay Park/Dunnes Stores

there's a guy in DIT bolton street doing his architecture thesis on this site this year. obviously won't be built but the studies they do can highlight alot of the problems in a particular area and propose solutions.

Now that's interesting. Any details? Wouldn't mind seeing the thing when he's done.

chrislimerick wrote:

the customer says i can get that cheaper in etc etc as all know the price of an item matters as for building around the city there is a building near the park hyde rd area that was built never had a tenant and has all its windows kicked in
there years now

I drive past that building quite a bit and it seems to get worse every few weeks, which is rather a pity given its location.

There are really two problems there I suspect - the location is crap for anything other than an office that doesn't need any customers visiting (ever - there's no parking /at/ the building). Also I'd put good money that the downstairs was built just to get the double tax exemption on the residential units upstairs. Not that I'd live in a building which has stone-throwing as an amenity - that building tends to confirm a particular literal case of Wilson's & Kelling's Broken Windows thesis every time I see it. Shades of the VHI building at the end of Michael Street, but that building wasn't crap, had a far better location and they fixed the windows when they were broken.

Crea

chrislimerick wrote:

rates is the problem here and the rent that is paid for these locations is very high a lot of people go to the likes of argos and the other super stores for stuff
as single retail units do not get the massive discounts the super stores do hense
the customer says i can get that cheaper in etc etc as all know the price of an item matters as for building around the city there is a building near the park hyde rd area that was built never had a tenant and has all its windows kicked in
there years now

Chris is right. The rates in the city centre are really high. A friend had to close her shop in town and move to the outskirts because the rates were killing her. If the City Council are serious about getting people into the areas currently being developed then they had better think of some incentives.
Also, they need to put a stop to allowing building of new shops/offices until the others are occupied - probably not a goer.

bullets

Crea wrote:

Chris is right. The rates in the city centre are really high. A friend had to close her shop in town and move to the outskirts because the rates.

I reckon my girlfriend will have do do the same. She is trying to get
a dog grooming service up and running but the costs of keeping it open
in the city mean that even if she is doing a full weeks worth of dogs she is still
coming out with nothing at all and would only be breaking even. Its mainly
down to the high rent price for such a small amount of space, you add
water charge/electricity/bins bills etc etc etc on to that and your
operating at a loss and would be better off on the dole.

Its a real shame that there are not schemes set up to help develop and promote
small business starting out that may occupy some of the otherwise neglected buildings
around the place. Limerick City Enterprise often help poeple but it appears only
if the businees is Trading, Something like a service like grooming they do squat.
Long term it could or would make the city better and more apealing to people.


~B

mysterious

Crea wrote:

Chris is right. The rates in the city centre are really high. A friend had to close her shop in town and move to the outskirts because the rates were killing her. If the City Council are serious about getting people into the areas currently being developed then they had better think of some incentives.
Also, they need to put a stop to allowing building of new shops/offices until the others are occupied - probably not a goer.

They came down marginally this year or I think it will take effect next year.

Will I explain high rates phenomonon. well it's something like B

---

Ex. if that is a clue.... I'd rather not talk about it. sick to death about it.



Well since it's rant. What is going to happen to the Aurther's quay area? why does all the politicians in Limerick act like cry babys, why can't they kick ass. Take a look at how Cork and Galway seem to take pride in the cityscape. Fair enough limerick is improving, and rightly, let's keep that tune up. Instead of dwelling on the negative which this city could do less of. But ffs Roches and Dunnes have a smacking dot in the city and leave it to ruins....

Where are the authorities? where is the Mayor, he should (for now)quit caring what other's region's think of the city's image, and start by tackling the image problem, by sorting out the backbone to the problem the city centre's image. Like Aurther's quay and Dunnes/Roches.......... It's a shambles:mad:

As Amazotheamazing said it has amazing potential... I just wonder what is the problem why it's even let be in a dire state, it just proves how we take pride in our city whether we like it or not

Karmafaerie

sceptre wrote:

They also appear not to have a great deal of space in the new one - all the blokie clothes are still in the old one. Nuts and all as it seems but the retail space in Harvey's Quay upstairs isn't that extensive.

Dunnes don't own that building.
It's owned by Roches I think.
Dunnes bought a 6 year lease when it was opened, at the moment they are planning to redo the old Dunnes, or maybe take over from Roches Stores.
there have even been some grand plans put forward where they will buy the current Roches stores, and join it to the old Dunnes with a walkway over the road, making it into a giant store.

As for M&S, they're plnning on opening in the new Opera centre in a few years.

Spengman

Karmafaerie wrote:

Dunnes don't own that building.
It's owned by Roches I think.
Dunnes bought a 6 year lease when it was opened, at the moment they are planning to redo the old Dunnes, or maybe take over from Roches Stores.
there have even been some grand plans put forward where they will buy the current Roches stores, and join it to the old Dunnes with a walkway over the road, making it into a giant store.

As for M&S, they're plnning on opening in the new Opera centre in a few years.

Not a hope would Roches sell their store, im no fan of Roches stores but i would rather see them retain their shop on o connell/sarsfield st rather than Dunnes get yet more of a foothold and that prospect would not be good for the city centre! Roches had some plans to revamp and extend their store but nothing has come of them so far, maybe the imminent arrival of the opera centre will force their hand and hopefully also that of Brown Thomas, what a disgraceful frontage onto the city's principal street, disgusting!:mad:

Karmafaerie

Spengman wrote:

Not a hope would Roches sell their store, im no fan of Roches stores but i would rather see them retain their shop on o connell/sarsfield st rather than Dunnes get yet more of a foothold and that prospect would not be good for the city centre! Roches had some plans to revamp and extend their store but nothing has come of them so far, maybe the imminent arrival of the opera centre will force their hand and hopefully also that of Brown Thomas, what a disgraceful frontage onto the city's principal street, disgusting!:mad:

True Roches wouldn't want to leave, but they own the Building that the new Dunnes is in.
There is a good chance that they will move there, after Dunnes' lease is up.

Spengman

Karmafaerie wrote:

True Roches wouldn't want to leave, but they own the Building that the new Dunnes is in.
There is a good chance that they will move there, after Dunnes' lease is up.

Maybe so but i think the O Connell/Sarsfield st junction is a more of a prime location than henry st, (despite the new developments!) The harveys quay building looks huge but apart from the ground floor and a smaller upper floor, the retail space is limited enough for such a large structure, most of the building is taken up with apartments and a multi storey carpark. Roches stores have a huge landbank surrounding their shop if only they had the ambition to develop it properly, they own all of the liddy st premises and theres also a garden centre and delivery yard behind penneys, there lies an ideal opportunity to develop a whole new vibrant city centre quarter! In all fairness its long overdue and their Limerick store is a s***hole compared to their stores in Dublin & Cork where they have invested millions(€30 million in Cork, not sure about Dublin) why cant they do the same here?, is it lack of interest?, the city council should really be putting more pressure on retailers in the city centre to improve their premises and also the exteriors of their buildings, some of the buildings in the city centre are filthy!..

The arrival of marks & spencer and also debenhams i believe, can only be good for Limerick as they'll finally give Roches stores and Brown Thomas the kick up the arse they deserve!

mysterious

There so much stories going around.. It's interesting that Roches brought Harvey's quay centre. Its news to me. This could expalin the reason why there are leaving a ruin to become a shambles... oh wait they gave it a paintjob:rolleyes: .....

Anyone who comes to Limerick is not blind to get a rather immeadiate negative reaction to seeing brown thomas and Roches department stores. Its horrid. Look at the building accross from Roches.. disgusting. It drives me mad as to why PRIME PRIME city centre is not seen as something to invest. Could explain why rents and footfall is much lower than say Patricks street in Cork... I read all the plans that were brought up but it's constantly rumoured and changed

Can I ask the question since we all know both department stores are pretty much laid back about doing something about this eyseorea


What is Dunnes interesting in doing?
What is Roches hoping to do?
Since there are so many mx up plans
Last comment ffs why have two Dunnes in the first place.



:mad:

mysterious

Karmafaerie wrote:

Dunnes don't own that building.
It's owned by Roches I think.
Dunnes bought a 6 year lease when it was opened, at the moment they are planning to redo the old Dunnes, or maybe take over from Roches Stores.
there have even been some grand plans put forward where they will buy the current Roches stores, and join it to the old Dunnes with a walkway over the road, making it into a giant store.

As for M&S, they're plnning on opening in the new Opera centre in a few years.

That seems like a good idea, since it's better to have one big store than having two separate stores, again could explain the reason why Dunnes is waiting for Roches to get it's ass into gear, or vice versa.

mysterious

The thread kinda got quiet since I posted the other day. How is the Bedford row taking shape? Once this is finished it should give Roches more reasons and Dunnes to DO something.... Cork Roches I believe is taking a lot of interest, I bet Limerick, if they had Roches upgraded would just easily par if not rise above the Cork store si, I mean there is definatly money in this city now! and since, there so many city centre projects are coming on, just proving the confidence the city now has. I read on www.hok.ie the spring edition of property watch etc, shows the level of investment and building going on in the city alone, It's all good to see the city fighting back.

Now the city council are pushing to floor the derelicts warehouses on Thomas street, onto the street, can't remember the name of it, but quite a lot of apartments going in there, It's quite cool that Apartment living is becoming sustainable given how small this city is. It's proven that people are moving back into the city since the last census.

On another note, since i'm off on a tangent, all areas of the city whether on a large scale or small, seems to constantly changing. Take a look at King's Island and all along the Riverfront, but it keeps coming back to the stunt area of Arthurs quay. It's getting to blantantly obvious of Roches/Dunnes ignorance and money monopoly they are sucking out of this part of town.... After being so positive throughout this post it's just impossible to see anything in light in the Arthur's quay block.

ninty9er

Apart from Cosmetics mens clothes and gifts Roches sales figs are goin down the drain!!! thats why they won't spend tens of milloions on the store. The SSIA money may change this bus the costs are being pared back. The same is true for Brown Thomas and Sports 2000 has just closed down. But Clery's having posted a profit for the first time in a few years in Dublin might be a sign of better things to come.

What about the Eircom building and the Revenue Commissioners, They are ugly buildings

As for Harveys Quay ~ it is the private property of 1 member of the Roche family.

AFAIK Roches occupies 1 acre in the City centre, but if the customers aren't willoing to buy, Roches won't stay. They will however, not sell the building.

Dunnes is a disgrace and they are definately making money if you look at their turnovewr to cost ratios. They have absolutely no excuse

Amazotheamazing

Is it just the limerick Roches and Brown Thomas that are losing money, or is it a nation wide thing?

I reckon the Eircom building will be torn down soon, as soon as the next phase of Riverpoint is finished.

Crea

Roches is the worst laid out shops i've seen in ages. They have an ancient lift which isn't really for customer use and it doesn't go into the basement. So if you're looking for bedlinen etc you can forget it if you have a buggy or are mobility restricted. The buggy/wheelchair is a no no in the household section because their aisles are so narrow. The whole place looks like a bargain basement shop except that their prices don't reflect this. They have some great shops in the childrens section and they have Principles for women but the shop layout and windows are crap.Whoever is in charge of this area of the store should be shot.
As for BT's probably some of the reason their sales are down is that you can now get the labels in other shops but for a lower price because the BT markup is higher (know this from an employee).

When you see the photos of the old Cannocks don't you just want to cry when you see Penny's?

Spengman

Crea wrote:

Roches is the worst laid out shops i've seen in ages. They have an ancient lift which isn't really for customer use and it doesn't go into the basement. So if you're looking for bedlinen etc you can forget it if you have a buggy or are mobility restricted. The buggy/wheelchair is a no no in the household section because their aisles are so narrow. The whole place looks like a bargain basement shop except that their prices don't reflect this. They have some great shops in the childrens section and they have Principles for women but the shop layout and windows are crap.Whoever is in charge of this area of the store should be shot.
As for BT's probably some of the reason their sales are down is that you can now get the labels in other shops but for a lower price because the BT markup is higher (know this from an employee).

When you see the photos of the old Cannocks don't you just want to cry when you see Penny's?

I wouldnt exactly be a regular visitor to Roches but on the few times i've been there i've also noticed how dated the interior looks,that building is only around 50 years old so it dosent have any ornate period decor unlike the former Cannocks & Todds. Cannocks was indeed a beautiful building dating back to the late 18th century, looking at old photographs it was an imposing and striking structure with a very famous clock, apparently it was the real focal point of the city centre back in the day!. According to the history books a man called Michael Clery(born in Kilmallock) who was once the manager of Cannocks, set up the famous Clerys of dublin in 1883!

I Couldnt find a reason why it was torn down, it seems to have been demolished in the late 60s or early 70s, a picture from the mid 70s shows a very different cannocks to the original building, apparently the premises was renovated & extented back in the 70s and im guessing this is when the old structure was torn down, unfortunately we didnt seem to take architecture and heritage very seriously back then, there probably wasnt any such thing as a listed building registrar:mad: ! Its not surprising that it was during the 60s and 70s that the heart was basically ripped out of this city, the old elegant royal george hotel was replaced by the monster that occupies the site today(albeit after its recladding job!) This period also saw the demolision of 2 very attractive bank buildings the old munster & leinster bank(AIB) and the bank of ireland at the junction of O Connell st/Bedford Row, we all know only too well what stands in their place today!

But in fairness the award for the most unsightly, disgusting, hideous and embarressing building must go to brown thomas!, words fail me on this one, in fairness there is a pretty sad story to this, a huge fire destroyed this whole block back in 1959 and i think its safe to say it changed the face of the city centre forever, again the old Todds (as it was then) was a beautiful and elegant structure and another huge loss to the city! Imagine if these buildings were still standing today, we'd have an extremely attractive city centre!
I just wonder has any other city in Ireland suffered as much damage to its commercial heart as Limerick has in the last 30/40 years?, i guess we only have ourselves to blame really!:(

ninty9er

It's pretty much nationwide as far as I can see with Limerick and Galway being worst hit as the populations can't justify massive renovations right now.

Dunnes are now offering a good line in clothes, river island and Zara aren't exactly rip-off land and Penny's clothes look OK even if you only get 2 or 3 wears outta them they're dirt cheap so it doesn't matter.

Also from a service point of view BT's is gone down the tubes in certain departments. Roches always have somone who at least tries to help, but i've noticed over the last few months whne it's busy they are trying to serve 5/6 people at the same time.

Roches had a fire too. It's neat in there unlike Penny's but then it's nothing compared to BT's but i never see anybody tidying clothes in there. Must be tghat people don't want to touch the clothes at those prices!!!!!!

I like The Jean Scene in the jetland and Zara is fairly good too but i don't get out there too often

mysterious

Limerick more than justifies renovations, its insulting the city as it is to have in such a dire state, Im sure of the top of my head hundreds if not thousands are avoiding Roches Stores because of it's state.

Look at the New Dunnes, is it quiet? hell no, is the pre prabicated one on Sarsfield street busy, no cus it's looks like shed.:mad:

They are just ignorant scum, and greedy..... i just would love if the Roches number one man read this. cus I mean it.

ninty9er

Ah now, Roches has improved massively but the hardware part upstairs is still really back to basics style. The figures seem to be top 3 in the chain when there's a sale on, but some of the worst for everyday buying. People aren't being put off by how it looks

Mens clothes has massively improved in the last while, but their buyers seriously aren't buying for a straight young outside of Dublin market.

If I owned Roches I'd probably move it to Eastway or somewher with parkin. A friend of Mine n Tralee says the one there is alwys busy.


Dunnes On Sarsfield St. is always busy even if it does look like a shed. Cos they've got a decent selection of stuff compared to Harveys Quay whiuch I generally avoid.

Never judge the service by the building