Progressive Democrats

TheAuditor

I'd just like to know what everyone's opinion of the Progressive Democrats is. Serious posts please, I'd like to know what you think they're doing right, and what you think they're doing wrong. Thanks for your help.

Digi_Tilmitt

Personally I think the PD's are a moderate right wing party who exist for the Middle Classes. They are Basicly Fianna Fáil Junior, and I believe them and the other right wing Parties to be Big Meanies!

Aspro

You probably know my opinion from a previous post Auditor but just to answer your question - as a bloke I know calls them - "The Privatisation Party". Basically a party of big business who unlike FF, FG, Labour and the Shinners at least give no illusions that they represent ordinary people. They are a Thatcherite party whose only fans seem to reside in the world of IBEC and the Small Firms Association. They had their time but they have been on a consistent decline since the last election. I believe if they had any chhance of resurrection Michael McDowell would have rejoined them. I hope they get blown out of the water next election.

tHE vAGGABOND

the PD's eh...

I see no reason on earth to ever vote for them. They dont see or do anything different from anyone else. What they do, on purpose or by accident, comes across as being for big business, not joe punter on the street. Irsih young people dont vote in general, because no one does anything intresting or different. Sin e!

As with several people here, I would love to join a party and get back to the active politics, which I left after College. I admire the Lib Dem's in the UK, as they see to 'have a clue' - as a friend puts it! Maybe once upon a time Dessie saw the PD's in the same vain as as the LibDems but they are a mile away now. I think that will be shown in the next elections when they will be shown how little the people think of the 'get into government at all costs' attitude.

A sample issue is the 'green' issue. The problem is that were all for talk in this country, great plans and white papers but we do **** all. I used to work for a German company, and when the German exec's used to come over they were embarassed (beyond horrified) at how little we recycle, or how little we do on a green level. Now I bet you have green policies coming out your ass, but we have no results. We still throw all our rubbish in a black bag, and that in turn gets put in a tip head somewhere in the country. Its a national disgrace.

A friend asked all the candidates in his area the same questions during the UK elections. Talking about internet issues, green issues and issues that affect young people in his area. The only intelligent response came from the local LibDem pcandidate. From speaking to other people, this is a pattern across the UK. Have a read for yourself!

Lib Dem responds

gandalf

The PD's are basically mini FF and I've seen nothing to change my mind about this from the present deputies they have (Harney & O'Donnell are good politicians thou).

Basically we have too many Centre Right Parties in Ireland, we could do with them all joining together and allow Ireland to have a proper Left vs Right Democracy like the rest of Europe and not one which is dictated by events eighty years ago.

Gandalf.

TwoShedsJackson

Auditor, if you want to try and pimp the PD's, who must be the most crap political party in the history of the universe (and I include the Monster Raving Looney Party in this assessment), do it in one bloody thread.

Your other thread has been deleted. Carry on here. If you really feel the need to.

Hobbes

I was wondering where the other thread got too, it read like a survey.

Like how can you have an opinion on something that a policitical party hasn't done? (eg. legalising prostitution. Where the hell did that come from?)

tHE vAGGABOND

Hobbes..

from the ban on large donations I would say <*shudder*>

Victor

I think the mini-FF comments are wrong. The PDs generally appear more proactive on policy issues and less involved in 'cute hoorism', be that on a pushing-the-county-manage-for-planning-permision basis or outright political corruption. The old stereotype of Left-Right politics have been shown to be incomplete, there are four extremes, not two, Communism, Capitalism, Liberalism and Totalitarianism. The PDs tend to be pro-business on economic issues, but tend to to be quite pragmatic and liberal on personal, legal and environmental issues.

They do however, suffer from an image problem, insofaras people see them as a small party getting smaller. Harney also probably made a mistake in aligning with FF in the last election. I'm not sure if you will see the same next time around.

tHE vAGGABOND

I flippin' hate it when ppl come in and ask 'intresting' questions then vanish when they get 'intresting' answers

what did you think we would say about the peedee's, were geeks, nerds, s'kiddies and various other ppl who either should be getting fresh air or working

TheAuditor

Post edited by the Castor Troy Department of Political Re-education.

Hobbes

Your looking for policy advice here? LOL

Bard

I used to know a lot of the PD's TD's and top-level bods personally (back around the beginning of the 90's) and they were an alright lot with a few radical ideas and seemed a better choice than Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael ... at the time.

They've changed though and now come across as little more than Fianna Fáil Part Deux.

It's like "they used to be hip/cool, but they've become more square/normal/run-of-the-mill over the years due to peer pressure". The same is happening to the Greens.

Shame really.

tHE vAGGABOND

as the fella says, 'its hip to be square'

Bard

Originally posted by tHE vAGGABOND:

as the fella says, 'its hip to be square'

heh... "the fella" was wrong when he said it first... and he still is

JustHalf

Originally posted by TheAuditor
As it happens I'm a policy advisor for a candidate in the next general election and we're looking to test the waters before making noises. I'd like to thank Victor for his constructive post. It's ironic that I'm helping a liberal party given the fascist actions of a moderator in removing my right to free speech;-)

To start with, that last sentence is terribly constructed. To continue, it's just plain wrong.

Castor Troy isn't a fascist, just someone who thinks that starting up two very similar threads isn't on. I reckon he thinks it's stupid to do something like that.

Regardless of what he thinks, we should still ban him for doing something so "fascist" as excercising his powers as moderator. I mean, you're only meant to have them, not use them! So everyone:
BAN CASTOR TROY!

Aspro

Originally posted by The Auditor

As it happens I'm a policy advisor for a candidate in the next general election and we're looking to test the waters before making noises.

If I were you I'd advise them to join another party.

Originally posted by Victor

The old stereotype of Left-Right politics have been shown to be incomplete

I don't agree, Victor. That's the sort of rhetoric that Tony Blair comes out with. It's still about Left and Right. The confusion lies in the fact that all the old social democratic parties (left) have shifted wholesale to the (right) including of course the Irish Labour Party leaving a huge vacuum for parties that will fight on behalf of ordinary people.

It all boils down to whether you accept the dictatorship of the free market or not. Yes or No. Left or Right. People or profit.

gandalf

Originally posted by TheAuditor
As it happens I'm a policy advisor for a candidate in the next general election and we're looking to test the waters before making noises. I'd like to thank Victor for his constructive post. It's ironic that I'm helping a liberal party given the fascist actions of a moderator in removing my right to free speech;-)

Well as a policy advisor I'm sure part of your spec is communication skills, maybe next time your doing some research you could indicate your intentions and connections fully. What you posted did not show this, we did not know what your full intentions were, you did not come back to this post and respond to the people who did bother to post until 4 days later.

As for saying that the Progressive Democrats are a liberal party, that is a joke. Their views are right wing (imho). As I also stated I think we have too may parties of the same ilk in Ireland, what we really need is FF, FG & the PD's to amalgamate and form a Centre Right party.

As for calling Castor Troy or myself fascists you are so far from the truth that I really fear for your candidates chances in the next election. Castor deleted your post, I actually originally posted a warning on the thread regarding your purposes in those posts. As for having a free right to speech you don't here, if CT or myself see a post where we think the poster has an ulterior motive then we will act accordingly.

Remember its good to communicate and full disclosure in any of your future posts would be most welcome by us and should help you get the response you are looking for without attracting our wrath.

Gandalf.

TheAuditor

Gandalf,

My anonymity was due to the fact that I wished to avoid biased views being posted by people, I just wanted to see what the honest, freely expressed views of the people are on these matters.

For example, if you wanted to assertain what people's opinion on George Bush is you don't ask:

"Given the fact that he's a redneck and a moron, do you have a favourable opinion of George Bush?"

This would obviously sway people, and leave you without a clear picture of popular opinion.

Having received a First Class Honours in Statistics, I knew that it wouldn't help my friend's election chances if I wasn't telling him the truth.

"Auditor" comes from the latin "Audio" - "To listen" - I only want to listen to what people really think. Is that ok?:)

gandalf

I fail to see how your example of George Bush applies to you been truthful in why you wanted peoples opinions.

Yes it would colour some people but with full disclosure I would reckon more members would have posted their opinions. If you want to ask your questions again please do, but let people know why you want them to reply. Yes you will get some colourful responses just take a look at any of the threads here at the moment.

I also fear I will get another complaint because we are being anti-American regarding your Dubya remarks !

Gandalf.

Chaos-Engine

The PDs want more agressive privatisation even more so than FF. Privitisation of Water, energy,Schools, Prisions, etc...
I'll accept some privitisation but ireland is small and some sectors such as Water, energy and education utilities should NEVER be privitised.

I mean take alook at the Economies of scale argument that Eircom through around so much to justify their shiite service

Victor

[RANT MODE ON]

Auditor, thanks for the thanks, but please do remember this is a community - not a pollster's sampling area. While many would have guessed your intentions, many others wouldn't.

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
Re: Burn the PDs

Every political party in this country has a PROFOUND image problem. There is no leadership. No moral courage to pick issues up by the scruff of the neck and deal with them, once and for all. "Let's set up a committee and think about it until after the next election" seems to be the order of the day.

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Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
The PDs want more agressive privatisation even more so than FF. Privitisation of Water, energy,Schools, Prisions, etc...
I'll accept some privitisation but ireland is small and some sectors such as Water, energy and education utilities should NEVER be privitised.

I mean take alook at the Economies of scale argument that Eircom through around so much to justify their shiite service

Yes, I imagine the PDs are pro-privatisation, if only they would actually do some? If I am right, in the last 14 years the following have been privatised: Irish Life, Greencore, Irish Steel, Eircom, TSB, ICC and now Irish Refining plc. Wahay! about one small to medium company every two years! Each privatisation judged by their problems, not by their merits. And we still have 50,000 employed in the "Commercial" semi-state sector (on top of the 250,000 civil and public servants). I can understand the state owning the postal system and social and/or strategic transport services, but why does it still make fertiliser; hold 98% of electrical generation capacity; run 3 TV stations, ports, hotels and saw mills; sell insurance, milk and holidays; and race greyhounds?

The problem with Eircom is that most of the staff don't even know they are now providing a commercial service. They are an example of where Economies of scale don't work

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Successive governments have spent the last 14 years reforming the tax system. Can any one tell me why it has taken 14 years, when perhaps only half of the objectives of an equitable, understandable, acceptable tax system have been achieved? Every year it has had a few bits tinkered with, but all that has really done is kept people thinking "Great, I have to work out how much tax to pay again".

Perhaps it has all been a sop to those who don't want an equitable, understandable, acceptable tax system. In 1990, I earned £100 per week (when I was working) and looking back on it I am horrified that I had to pay 7.75% PRSI on that. No when the cost of living, expectations and admittedly pay rates are higher, we still tax people on the minimum wage? Hellooooooo???????

I suspect I am now earning in the order of £35,000 per year. I now need an accountant to work out how much tax to pay.

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Meanwhile we gave tax breaks to people to build holiday homes at a time the construction industry was having difficulty completing enough ordinary, first homes for people.

For 4 years the government has tinkered with the provision of extra housing, but has done shamefully little until this year to address the real problem - the restructuring of households, as twenty-somethings of the 1970's baby boom have moved out of home. People wanted homes of their own, but were penalised at every junction when they tried to provide for themselves and others.

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The PDs on their web site lay claim to perhaps 70 achievements on their website (some of which won't happen for another 3 years). Nearly all of them would have happened anyway, with or without political assistance or should I say interference.

A unexpected rise in employment? Sure, but it was actually inevitable for more than 20 years, due to population changes.

An increase in housing? Yes, but exclusively provided by the private sector at prices that too people can't afford.

Over 150 bills have been enacted in 4 years? Yes, but this is still a quarter of the rate in the UK. Many of our laws vary from simply out-of-date to positively antiquated.

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The single greatest achievement of the PDs in the nearly 16 years of their existence, was the banning of Bituminous coal in Dublin in 1990 - sweet nothing since.

Politicians. Burn 'em. Burn 'em all (smoke free of course).

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A list of political parties is at http://www.gov.ie/oireachtas/frame.htm
[RANT MODE OFF]

Victor

Hmmm, gone all quiet ...